Selfmade fiberglass fins

[cid]

Here is the laminate plan that has so far worked well for me for SHORT Fins (ie underwater hockey, etc..)

SOFT Stiffness:
4 layers of 300g/m^2 fiberglass 38 cm long measured from the angle towards the tip of the fin.
1 layer 28cm long
1 layer 20 cm
1 layer 8 cm
2 layers 0 cm (ie 2 layers from the angle back towards the end of the footpocket)

MEDIUM Stiffness:
5 layers of 300g/m^2 fiberglass 38 cm long measured from the angle towards the tip of the fin.
1 layer 28cm long
1 layer 20 cm
1 layer 8 cm
1 layer 0 cm (ie 1 layer from the angle back towards the end of the footpocket)

For freediving fins I would guess you need to make everything longer and remove maybe one layer?
Here is a nice picture from another thread that clearly shows the different layers of fiberglass.

I hope this helps

 

[Nikolis]

Hi guys i am going to attempt to make my own blades ill probably experiment with different stiffness and ways to achieve it with cloth orientation and shape and i was thinking of some separate reinforcement at the sides and or the center. ill start with fibreglass and then if i got the money try carbon also. I watched zmagos videos and was impressed!
The only thing i dont get is how to make the resin not go out of the actual blade area to the execs cloth when you vacuum it? or it dosent matter because you can trim them?

 

[Mufazalov]

Hello People. I have a big question that got me confused lately.
I am getting ready to order composites + pump. Already picked composites/materials and now buying a pump via my friend. He found one pretty cheap but the guy that sells it sounds retarted (to me). The seller states that:
1. he sells a Vacuum Pump; and
2. that that VP is used to suck the water out of smth. And he says that his VP cannot be used for vacuum-bagging.

There is a chance that the seller is disinformed about his product. So I wanted to make sure that he is wrong and not me. I think that to suck the water out of an area there are regular water pumps and VPs are used with other purpose in mind. If I am right then I will get that pump, its only 45 Euro/$60(it stands good compared to the 2nd choice of mine which is 90GBP=$150)
Any thoughts/ideas? thanks.

 

[Zmagoj]

Get one that can go bellow 200 mbar (-0.8 bar on the vacuum gauge).

It doesn't sound cheap. Here in Slovenia, you can get pump from an old fridge for free. That one can go down to 100 mbar.

 

[Mufazalov]

I probably will, but the question is: Is the seller wrong? If the thing is a vacuum pump then thats what I need, no matter what he says, right?
I think he just messed uo info in his head.
SO: I will ask my friend to go to that same place and read the specifications leaflet, if it does say that its a vacuum pum + it can "go below 200 mbar" = he will buy it. Again, the thing that confused me was the seller stating that it is a VP and it is made to draw water (!).

 

[Mufazalov]

Aloha, fellow freedivers/spearos. Last week I made my first steps (towards my perfect custom-self-made fins) in vacuum infusion. I didnt listen to others and decided to jump on the fast-moving train with a pretty complicated set-up.
During last 2 months I was surfing the web in search of desirable composites + good/affordable vacuum pump. The thing is that I am currently residing on CYprus(thus year I am graduating from a Uni here) and it s a pain in the a$$ to find necessary stuff here. People have never heard of a vacuum pump, nor did they ever see carbon fiber cloth. Or, its kinda funny, in the store shop assistant nods his head when I explain about things I want to get, he adds "yes, yes, I understand. Are u talking about that? yeah, I know u what you want." and then they usually say "We have never had it. In fact, I have never seen it myself. And there is not a single place in the country where u will be able to find it." I am talking about TRNC. it sux, but thats the way it is right now. ANyway.
I managed to find good composites on one greek website: www.fibermaxcomposites.com, highly advisable. The pump was a little more complicated, since it is a pretty rare piece of equipment. I spent weeks browsing ebay.co.uk to find the one I needed. And then I was able to find "charles-austen B100SE." I contacted the company to check whether it will be able to do the job, the sales people replied very soon with a positive reply. They also informed me that the price of B100SEs' brothers and sisters (same level pumps, but differ somehow) are around 300EURO. I was overwhelmed to pay 200 euro for a used one... To make the story short, for 130 euro (price+postage) it was mine =]
My idea is to create blades that will fit Omer stingrays, so I tool Stingray shape as my wanted outcome.
Mould was just like Zmagojs, nothing new.
my lay-up was (from up going down)
vacuum film ______________
green mesh .......................
breather BBBBBBBBBBBBBB
perforated film ============
peel ply ----------------
FBRGLSS 280 tw
FBRGLSS 280 twFBRGLSS 390 tw2
FBRGLSS 390 tw2
FBRGLSS 280 twFBRGLSS 390 tw2
FBRGLSS 280 tw

FBRGLSS lay-up differs from the one ZMagoj used: I had different shapes: Parabolic + normal shapes. Big up for smart ideas to Mr. GSerghiou =]
Everything went according to plan... Ok, whilst the infusion was on, everything went according to the plan. Allright, allright. Whilst the footpocket was being infused everything went according to plan. And then eh, it slowed down to 5 mm per hour.
The problem was the palce were 2 sheets of mould meet. During my test runs I didnt see the leaks (I dont have a gauge on a pump). I had 3 of them. 2 were easy to fix and 1 was (as I mentioned earlier) in a pretty crappy place. I just had no way to get there.
Basically, when the infusion stalled I tried to pour epoxy elsewhere, but that stupid hole messed up the whole thing. As a result I have a blade full of bubbles, which is hah out-of-order =]
I will upload some pics, so u can see the mould, maybe U can give me an advise on whats wrong.


Today, I have modified the mould. I used the mastic sealant tape to join 2 pieces of glass + epoxy on top of that. I think that will work. Anyway, check out the pics, the mould will dry up tomorrow, I will seal it from the other side as well and hopefully on Wed/Thur try the second time.

 

[Mufazalov]

That a new modified mould. + end result.

 

[Phil Herranen]

Aloha, fellow freedivers/spearos. Last week I made my first steps (towards my perfect custom-self-made fins) in vacuum infusion. I didnt listen to others and decided to jump on the fast-moving train with a pretty complicated set-up.
During last 2 months I was surfing the web in search of desirable composites + good/affordable vacuum pump. The thing is that I am currently residing on CYprus(thus year I am graduating from a Uni here) and it s a pain in the a$$ to find necessary stuff here. People have never heard of a vacuum pump, nor did they ever see carbon fiber cloth. Or, its kinda funny, in the store shop assistant nods his head when I explain about things I want to get, he adds "yes, yes, I understand. Are u talking about that? yeah, I know u what you want." and then they usually say "We have never had it. In fact, I have never seen it myself. And there is not a single place in the country where u will be able to find it." I am talking about TRNC. it sux, but thats the way it is right now. ANyway.
I managed to find good composites on one greek website: www.fibermaxcomposites.com, highly advisable. The pump was a little more complicated, since it is a pretty rare piece of equipment. I spent weeks browsing ebay.co.uk to find the one I needed. And then I was able to find "charles-austen B100SE." I contacted the company to check whether it will be able to do the job, the sales people replied very soon with a positive reply. They also informed me that the price of B100SEs' brothers and sisters (same level pumps, but differ somehow) are around 300EURO. I was overwhelmed to pay 200 euro for a used one... To make the story short, for 130 euro (price+postage) it was mine =]
My idea is to create blades that will fit Omer stingrays, so I tool Stingray shape as my wanted outcome.
Mould was just like Zmagojs, nothing new.
my lay-up was (from up going down)
vacuum film ______________
green mesh .......................
breather BBBBBBBBBBBBBB
perforated film ============
peel ply ----------------
FBRGLSS 280 tw
FBRGLSS 280 twFBRGLSS 390 tw2
FBRGLSS 390 tw2
FBRGLSS 280 twFBRGLSS 390 tw2
FBRGLSS 280 tw

FBRGLSS lay-up differs from the one ZMagoj used: I had different shapes: Parabolic + normal shapes. Big up for smart ideas to Mr. GSerghiou =]
Everything went according to plan... Ok, whilst the infusion was on, everything went according to the plan. Allright, allright. Whilst the footpocket was being infused everything went according to plan. And then eh, it slowed down to 5 mm per hour.
The problem was the palce were 2 sheets of mould meet. During my test runs I didnt see the leaks (I dont have a gauge on a pump). I had 3 of them. 2 were easy to fix and 1 was (as I mentioned earlier) in a pretty crappy place. I just had no way to get there.
Basically, when the infusion stalled I tried to pour epoxy elsewhere, but that stupid hole messed up the whole thing. As a result I have a blade full of bubbles, which is hah out-of-order =]
I will upload some pics, so u can see the mould, maybe U can give me an advise on whats wrong.


Today, I have modified the mould. I used the mastic sealant tape to join 2 pieces of glass + epoxy on top of that. I think that will work. Anyway, check out the pics, the mould will dry up tomorrow, I will seal it from the other side as well and hopefully on Wed/Thur try the second time.

the problem is your mold . what you need is just a bottom mold for the angle ,peel ply , a vac bag, your tube for infusion and a clamp to seal it off.
phil

 

[gserghiou]

Hi An,

Great to see you started your project !!!

thanks for the 'credit' :blackeye but as i said, its not my 'idea' ... just the 'general' layup practise followed by many manufacturers....

bubbles....what bubbles...i would call them 'cavities' for better water flow and propulsion :friday

Good Luck....

George

P.S : Check your mail

 

[cid]

Mufazalov, really good for a first try!

A few questions,
1) what kind of epoxy are you using?
2) why do you use the breather and perforated film for?
3) between which layers do you have the resin and vacuum tubes?

I have been using the following layup:

vacuum film ______________
resin tube and pump tube~O~~~~~~~O~
red flow media .......................
peel ply ----------------
fibers
glass mould

A few comments:
1) the joint between to pieces of glass has to be air tight. any leaks will slow the infusion.
2) first pump down the layup with a clamp on the epoxy tube, fix all holes by adding mastic tape, then mix the epoxy

have fun!

 

[Mufazalov]

Mufazalov, really good for a first try!

THanks =]

A few questions,
 
1) what kind of epoxy are you using?

Eh, some low-viscosity epoxy, which I ordered online. THe gave me an option of resin+hardener for an infusion process, I chose the lowest-viscosity available.

2) why do you use the breather and perforated film for?

As I watched tons of resin infusion videos on youtube and decided to add these 2 layers to the set-up. Now I know that was a mistake because breather soaks up ALOT of resin, thus less resin flows to the fibers.

3) between which layers do you have the resin and vacuum tubes?

My inlet tube was under peel ply, right into the fibers, and the tube to the catch-box was... ehh. I forgot where it was. Any ideas where it would better be?

1) the joint between to pieces of glass has to be air tight. any leaks will slow the infusion.

learnt it the hard way => it messed up my process.

2) first pump down the layup with a clamp on the epoxy tube, fix all holes by adding mastic tape, then mix the epoxy

Did the same thing, fixed the leaks, but the main one was to be found midway thru the infusion.

Your step 1 was all in my brain up until yesterday, when I decided to get into the details. so thats what I did: 2 pieces of mold (2 glass sheets) are joined with a slim stripe of mastic tape (basically edge to edge) + some hard (not the liquid one) epoxy on both sides. yes, sounds stupid and complex, I will attach a picture of it. I believe that will do the job just fine.

 

[cid]

My inlet tube was under peel ply, right into the fibers, and the tube to the catch-box was... ehh. I forgot where it was. Any ideas where it would better be?

I recommend putting the inlet tube over or under the green mesh (flow media). The mesh allows the epoxy to flow across as fast as possible. Same thing for the vacuum tube, over or under the green mesh.

 

[pvilela]

hello Guys
First congrats for the great topic,
My self have just entered in the world of Carbon fins " house production", and made some tests, till now the results are nice but not great.
I am not using infusion method but vacuum press method. It is easy for me to use Vacuum press

Mufazalov , breather is to be used with Vacuum press method and not with infusion,
Breath will soak and will limit resin flow on the mold

i have one question to all, which vacuum pressure are you using?. i think i am using maybe to much. I don´t have a flow meter reducer , and as so i am always at maximum pressure. I my case is around 0,9 bar , 9000 kg for a square meter .
i am think i am taking to much resin out of the mold.
My last carbon fins weighted 192 gr, / fin
How can i post here some photos ?'

 

[cid]

i am think i am taking to much resin out of the mold.
How can i post here some photos ?'

Try to measure the fiber to resin weight ratio. Something around 60-70% fiber/resin is great. If you have a greater ratio (the opposite problem of most people) the composite it weak again!

Easiest way to attach pictures, when you type the post look for Additional Options and Attach Files and click on "Manage Attachments". Please post pics!

 

[pvilela]

Thank you CID
i managed to do it

I will post the weights .
One curiose thing is i am using aorund 320 gr of resin to get a god impregnation, and at the end i have only 192 gr . resin + fiber

 

[cid]

Pvilela, a weight of 192g per blade is really good, much better than most commercial blades. How is the stiffness of that blade, as soft blades are usually lighter...

By the way this thread is now one year old Thanks for starting it Zmagoj!

 

[Zmagoj]

Thank you CID
i managed to do it

I will post the weights .
One curiose thing is i am using aorund 320 gr of resin to get a god impregnation, and at the end i have only 192 gr . resin + fiber

Hey all,
Nice to see it going...

I suspect your fin is very soft. If I remember correctly, mine has around 300g.
There is also something else I noticed on your picture with the fin bended:
Maybe I am wrong, but I suspect you made the same mistake I did. The flex is not distributed progressively along the length of the fin. In water it results in bending near the footpocket, what you can see from my videos (btw the fins are great to me, but could be better though).
It helps some, if you use footpocket with stiffer horns, like OMER's.

It is the same problem I want to get over with a new laminateplan, but I still have no spare time to do it.

Again nice to see the thread active by new builders.

Regards,
Zmago

 

[pvilela]

hello

i made some carbon and fiber fins tests
Carbon fins with 192 gr are a little less hard them picasso carbon blades, i said is like a medium soft.
I don´t have a lot of carbon available, so am using 200 gr/ m2 fabrics, around 7 layers and not all with the same size, am using a crossed 45º fiber fabric, to give me more resistance in cross movements. Honestly i don´t know if it is wright direction to go.
I am going to change the molds to a different shape , i will post other test in the future

 

[Zmagoj]

I had fiberglass in mind. If it was carbon, then they should be stiffer and OK.

 

[pvilela]

today i am at the office working, :waterwork, but my blades are beeing test on sea,

test conditions that they just complet, are 15 hours catching seafood and speafishing , Dephts till 15 mt , and they just call me saying everything is ok , and a nice remark saying very powerfull blades
i am a hapy guy , but i could be more if it was me testing the blades
thanks to all for the commens and i will keep informed for the further developments