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Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Watch out

Anderson, as I said before, you are a card, and should be dealt with....I was thinking about a practical joke I played on a guy once- very nasty, too nasty to admit to anymore, but the point is, that despite the fact that we worked together in a full time travelling heavy metal band, living together 7 days a week, he waited for 3 months before he got his vengance. The vengance is also indescribable here, but I will tell you that it was EXTREMELY unpleasant!
One day you will actually meet and dive with Sven, and I think he might be a patient man..............:blackeye
Erik Y.

Actually I am sure you don't suck . My appologies. I have also seen and enjoyed Cliffs work for many years.

Free translation service

Originally posted by Erik
Cheers, Lochiem, Salud, Enshallah (what's the French equivalent?)

Try "a la vôtre" for when you drink or "santé"
if you're in brittany (Celtic,Breizh language), try "yec'hed mat " (pronouce yaermat)

Originally posted by icarus pacific
Isn't it, "We surrender?"

No, Rather "Je vous repondrais par la bouche de mes canons" if you're in french Canada (Quebec) and actually "Nous nous rendons" if you're in France.
and "this taste like horse pee" if you're in america rofl
Hi all,

It's funny, when I see the comments about the chick. I can realy see the diference between the european and american way of thinking.......

On my side, I prefer to have to look at the picture of that girl, even if it's not very usefull to sell freediving products, than looking at the american tv channels, with all the violent movies, tv shows playing real police chases, and advertising for cars burning 35l for 100 km, junk food and drugs.
I find that much much more shocking and hypocritical.

Hey guys, did you heard about second degree english humour...?

Just my opinion.....

This sex business

Well, I'm an 'englishman' and I found the advertisment rather out of context. However, it did achieve its aim, because I looked at it for longer than I would have done if it had been a page of T-shirts only.

I still wouldn't buy the product (I don't wear T-shirts much) but I looked for longer - and the end result was that I was irritated to see this kind of advertising in freediving. I hate all those car magazines etc, but I also hate all the crap TV that we have on our channels in the UK. I probably wouldn't watch TV at all if I lived in North America.

What's more, it was not a suprise to see it there, since it is not the first time.

So I say: :naughty


First off - welcome to Ben, one of the more level-headed UK freedivers I believe.

Anyway - I go away for a few days on business (again!) and I come back to see the whole of the community go nutty over a photo :D

Before I start, can I thank everyone for contributing to this thread in a most controlled and sensible way - I think the Mentors sometimes wonder if they actually have a job to do as you all show the ability to provide sensible, controlled arguments. :mute

I agree with the general comments that the photo probably doesn't actually help "sell" the product, however it has achieved the effect of getting people talking about it. The main role of advertising is to sell, but there are campaigns out there that are just trying to get "branding" and make people aware of a specific name. The advert in question has certainly made people aware fo Freediver UK, although i'd love to find out exactly how many more T-Shirts are actually sold.

As far as people worrying that DB might follow down this route, I wouldn't worry - I have laid down a strict policy on what adverts can be shown, this includes distasteful advertising and pop-ups/unders. From this policy we have had some high profile advertisers from inside the diving industry (Picasso, OMER, Seven Tenths, etc...) and outside (American Express), and we have just secured further sponsorship from Divers Alert Network for a new Medical Forum. This is all due to be adult and sensible about this issue...as Sven has pointed out, you lot actual make Deeper Blue what it is, not Cliff, myself or any of the others on the team. If we do something that is not to our audience's liking (the majority as you can't please everyone!) we risk losing our community, not something i'm willing to do.

Howard has asked me not to post on the Freediver UK guestbook as DB now has started selling kit. This was just the last nail in the coffin as far as Howard was concerned as he spurned working with us to help benefit the sport of Freediving several times over the past few years. :head It's no big deal to me in the end as the DB team will continue to promote the sports we cover as best we can and help people learn in a safe and controlled environment - our formula is one of giving the best possible information - and I don't really care if that means sending someone to another site or competitor if that is the best information available - however that doesn't work with everyone.

Anyway - once everyone had finished with this thread - go out and dive with your buddies, friends, family - as that is what everyone loves - not some silly blonde wearing a t-shirt that has nothing to do with Freediving.
Both a Fred And Ben have made valid points about us Yanks here in the states.

About the only TV I ever watch is usually a good Drama, PBS or one of the educational channels on cable (Discovery, Biography, A&E)

Got tired of my brain being turned to mush - haven't really watched TV for over a year now and I 'm much better for it.

I much prefer to watch a good video on Freediving, a romantic or comedy with my wife on the couch, or read a good book (Need to start a new book soon).

Well, I just got up so I need to get my day started - Happy Friday! :D
Re: Wow!

Originally posted by Stephan Whelan
First off - welcome to Ben, one of the more level-headed UK freedivers I believe.

Anyway - I go away for a few days on business (again!)

waaaah... I gotta travel for my work, waaah.

Anytime you want to trade places Stephan, you just call. The residuals from my T shirt modeling aren't placing me in an economic strata I'd like to become acustomed to.

Re: Re: Wow!

Originally posted by icarus pacific
waaaah... I gotta travel for my work, waaah

Yea, yea...sarcasm will get you everywhere sven :naughty :D
Originally posted by Frederic Buyle
It's funny, when I see the comments about the chick. I can realy see the diference between the european and american way of thinking.......

On my side, I prefer to have to look at the picture of that girl, even if it's not very usefull to sell freediving products, than looking at the american tv channels, with all the violent movies, tv shows playing real police chases, and advertising for cars burning 35l for 100 km, junk food and drugs.
I find that much much more shocking and hypocritical.

No disagreement there... but I also wouldn't like an ad where the freedivers were killing eachother with spearguns. The point is that it is out of place and inappropriate.

I know what you mean though -- I was in line for a movie a couple of years ago, and ahead of me was a father and his two 10-12 year old sons. He asked the girl at the counter what the rating on a particular movie meant, and whether it contained any sex or nudity. She said, no it just contains swearing and violence. His reply was "oh, okay then". As he turned around I caught his eye with my raised eyebrow and he stopped in his tracks and thought about what he had just done. He actually said "that's pretty screwed up, isn't it?". I think it is, along with a great many other things in society, and not enough people actually stop to think about it.


Here's a warning from Fred off of the Freediver guestbook:

WARNING!! WARNING !!there will be Another new photo of the babe in the
freediver T shirt on the site this weekend.....I here its the main topic of some
people's freediving lives. Choose to look or choose not to....as Umberto

I assume most of you won't be clicking on the Freediver clothing section this weekend. I plan to though. I think Fred makes a very valid point, if a seductive half-naked woman offends you then simply don't look.

Scott Turgeon
Hi Scott, the point of the complaint is, that sex is being used in an underhanded, psychologically and scientifically proven way, to sell something. It's not necessarily about being offended by nudity or sexuality. I like looking at beautiful women, as do most of us. It's just that that is being used against you to promote a product. That is what is offensive. Certainly we've all been brought up to accept that form of advertising, but occasionally. someone sees this truth, and resents it.
At least pornographers are being honest about what they're selling....you buy this, and you will get some semblance of something resembling sex. The college-boy mentality has it's place: in the brains of college boys, and I think it would be better if it wasn't there either.
Erik Y.
But she's not that seductive is she? And the reason (for me) is that I bet she's thinking "God, I hate these assignments where the creepy photographer gets me to stick my hand in my pants, but i guess the bills have got to be paid somehow ..."

I have no problem with companies using models to display clothing. Good-looking people have to have ways of making a living too. But why this ad doesn't work for me is that it just makes me go "Oh, puh-leeeeze" just like any other blatant naff selling device I can instantly see through, like those "prize" scratch-cards where it's 100% sure you're going to get the crappest prize (ie the one in small print) and you know damn well you're going to have to spend four quid making the phone call to claim it. I'm not stupid damn it, and I resent cack-handed attempts to manipulate me into buying stuff. If anyone is really influenced to buy alloy wheels or T-shirts just because some woman who'd rather be doing something else is shown fiddling with her bits, they ought to be towed out to sea and bombed until they sink. Trouble is, since that would deprive us of more than half our young adult males, who would there be left to work in McDonald's?

Hang on ...
We Live in a Free Country

My take on things is:

Whether or not I'm offended, Freediver is not breaking any laws and therefore has the right to do with it's property (website) as it pleases. If anyone is offended, they have the right not to look. If the sentiments on this Forum are a majority, then eventually Freediver's advertising technique will prove ineffective and if they want to continue making money they'll change their ways.

I personally don't see the big deal. The chick looks good to me but it certainly doesn't make me want to buy the shirt. To me, it's ineffective advertising but funny to see. I guess if I was worried that it might actually somehow sublimely force me against my will to buy the shirt than I might get offended.

Scott Turgeon
public service announcement

I thought that she was warning us NOT to buy that t-shirt because the darn thing gave her crabs???;)

My Right!

That is what's so great about this Country, I have the right to acknowledge and encourage anything I want (as long as I don't break the law).

BTW, my wife is an electrical engineer and my mother has a Ph.D. So, I guess I am the knuckle dragger of the family, I only have a Masters degree.

Scott Turgeon
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get a refund

Hey who's questioning your education?:confused: You've got a Masters so that makes two of us and no doubt we have company... so what? (headshaking smiley face icon) A few people take the opposite side of a discussion and you go to the yeah, but I'm smarter card?

Look at it from another standpoint- my oldest daughter has been here with me this holiday break and has been entertained with this site and the goings-on. Here's her take on it when she went and didi the looking and thinking...

Hi everybody!

I'm Annika, a 15 year old girl. I went and saw the ad for the T shirts on Freediver and am pretty disgusted with the way that the company chose to advertise themselves. My Dad and I are both born here in the USA but we are first and second generation, coming from Sweden, so we both still look at things with a bit of European taste, especially my Dad because he's been there a lot. Just because she and the ad are in Europe doesn't mean that it's not degrading and offensive. I look at the ad the same way as I do at the health magazines that look more like bikini flash. The main point of the magazine and of the site should be about the sport, not some girl reduced to posing in such a way as to appeal to boys that probably don't have the money to buy the stuff anyway.

I was reading the other people here and was not too impressed with those that claim to be European and thus it's OK. My Dad pointed out Buyle's article and when I looked at his picture and thought of his calling the Tshirt model a chick, I immediately thought "who's he to talk?, he's no prize!" Would he feel any better being thought of that way, European or not?

My Dad and I as well as my brother and sister all love the Ocean and he's getting me a wetsuit for my birthday so I can go with him and learn more about diving. When he showed me the ads for the wetsuits, and I saw the female models, and some of the guys too, I thought it was pretty funny how they were posed- do these people even dive? I am hoping that I can be trusted to make my choice for a suit on the fit and how well it works, not that it offers flowers or has bigger cups. I did think the pictures of my Dad in the Village People gear was pretty funny though! He's still not too thrilled about that though.

I guess my point is that I am going to be at the age where I'm going to be buying diving gear and other stuff and seeing some girl trying to go sexy makes me just shake my head and walk away. It's probably a nicely made shirt and all, but this is not how to appeal to my buying dollar.

I enjoyed the site and hope to see you diving with my Dad and I someday.

There you have it folks. From a 15 yr old. You'll accept my pride that I've high hope for the future based on her. :inlove

sven DB bon vivant, parent and overly educated filleter.
I don't think anyone here is refuting the legality of the ad I guess we're just saying that we would like to think that our standards,morals, I.Q, whatever is apparently a little higher than the target audience of the ad. And personally I don't think that just because something is legal it's good or right. I think we can look back in history and see that. And I'm not really sure what the educational status of your wife or mother(no disrespect towards them) has to do w/ this. I only have a B.S. so I guess I drag my knuckles even lower than you.
BTW: How would you it be if it was your daughter, sister, wife, or mother in that ad and know how they would be percieved by the public?
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Re: public service announcement

Originally posted by Jon
I thought that she was warning us NOT to buy that t-shirt because the darn thing gave her crabs???;)


In that case, wouldn't it be a pubic service announcement? :p

sven DB's OB/GYN in residence
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