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Sex

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

Cliff Etzel

Photographer & Visual Storyteller
Jul 7, 2000
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Sven - Being a father (and soon to be Grandfather), I can tell you that I was very impressed with how well your daughter articulated herself regarding this topic.

Well DONE! :)

You can tell your daughter that she gets a big thumbs up from me. She said it like it is and articulated what I think the majority of the testosterone segment of the population on the forums has been trying to say... :D
 

icarus pacific

Human-in-training
Nov 7, 2001
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Clif f and I agree?!

Thanks Cliff, she's the bomb!:praise You oughtta meet my 12 yr old son. Now there's a diver and a true ladies man!:chatup

I'm going to file that Grandpa bit for down the road...

sven
 

andrsn

Just visiting...
Aug 26, 2001
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a horse walks into a bar and....

the bartender said, "why the long face?" :D

if the pic is an angle for a esoteric marketing strategy, i applaud them. it worked as an attention getter. i think the feeling here is that some people are offended by "association" to freedive marketing as a whole. otherwise, nobody would even care about any of this. but, it's also obvious that that site is not the only voice for freedivers so it's not like people will stereotype us all as pervs.

personally, i think the photography could have been alot better. background, props, filters, lighting, etc, but it seems they had a budget. ;) i'd like to think the majority of our kind carries a bit more class in presenting itself. what THEY do on their own time is their own business.

if people need to supplement their deficiencies by promoting sex for a totally classy and down to earth sport, then so be it. perogative's all theirs. it's just nice to know that the sport has enough activists to outweigh these little negatives.

so, ....kudos to you all that want to keep the sport inviting to the masses, regardless of age. i applaud and respect ya. :D

now, how about we use those dollars spent on our educations for a better and more meaningful purpose? :hmm

aloha,
anderson
 

thin_air

Alphabet
Sep 15, 2001
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Hi everybody!

I'm Annika, a 15 year old girl.


hmmm, 15 eh, i know someone else who's 15... :D :duh

well i must say that im pleased not to be the only 15 year old to find the add distasteful, good luck trying to find another american/canadian(well a canadian would be easier to find :t)15 year old male to find the add distasteful,

Just because she and the ad are in Europe doesn't mean that it's not degrading and offensive.

true, the point was that europeans seem to have better taste then the average (dont think anyone here is average) american

yes i find the girl to be beautiful (most single males on the forum do im willing to bet) and so will many people i dont think that that is the point either,

i think the feeling here is that some people are offended by "association" to freedive marketing as a whole. otherwise, nobody would even care about any of this. but, it's also obvious that that site is not the only voice for freedivers so it's not like people will stereotype us all as pervs.

you read my mind, if it was to be a car mag, or any other kind of mag, we wouldnt care, just look at the adds for the carribean vacations, and for liquor and for any other product that is geared more towards the 19-27 year olds.
what we are trying to do,(i think) is to keep freediving from becoming another one of these sports/activities/product that is associated with the scantly clad female bodies,

"I'm living so far beyond my income that we may almost be said to be living apart."
- e e cummings
 

Stephan Whelan

Papa Smurf
Staff member
Admin
Jan 7, 1999
6,835
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Kudos to Vince and Annika - it makes me smile when I see teenagers making articulate arguments!

Incidentally, it seems FDUK have made the choice to remove the photo of the girl having her hand down her pants - it is now carefully placed elsewhere...makes me wonder if there have been direct complaints!

However - several members hit the nail on the head...whether you choose to look at the ad or not, the whole point of it is to try and make you buy it...if you don't buy it then the ad has failed in it's objective. However a secondary object is to make you remember FDUK - in this case it probably has worked. It wouldn't surprise me if they've seen an increase in traffic due to the discussions going on.
 

Peter Sheard

New Member
Jul 22, 2001
18
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Ultra-conservative, right-wing, politically-correct, reactionaries unite!

Hi All;

Just a quick note to ask Cliff, as 'chief assistant to the assistant chief of freediving,' to remove all of my articles from the DeeperBlue website as quickly as possible (Howard and I still hold copyright) and to ask Stephan to remove me from all Contributor, Staff listings etc.

As I am one of the 'adolescents' at Freediver UK that Cliff finds so objectionable it would seem that it is highly inappropriate to be represented on the DeeperBlue website in any way, shape or form.

It also seems unreasonable to remain a DeeperBlue editorial contributor as DeeperBlue is now a commercial venture and therefore should be offering some form of recompense to its contributors . . . quid pro quo . . .

Happy to contribute to a rational exchange of ideas in a non-commercial setting but as DeeperBlue is no longer non-commercial and this thread defies all rationality . . .

I liked the photo. My girlfriend liked the photo (and incidentally already has the t-shirt). My mother-in-law said, "Ooh, she's pretty -- Julie [my girlfriend] don't you have that t-shirt?"

See you all later at the fundamentalist inquisition . . .

Cheers,
Pete
 

Cliff Etzel

Photographer & Visual Storyteller
Jul 7, 2000
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Peter Leaving...

Peter - I am saddened by your deciding to leave the Deeperblue ranks, but it is understandable as to why.

Please realize that your making the assumption that you were a part of the "adolescent" posting ranks of the guestbook was a wrong assumption on your part.

The again, I could have been more concise regarding that there are many who post in that manner instead of using my previous blanket statement regarding FDUK's guestbook.

For that I apologize if you were offended in any way.

Maybe you will reconsider your decision at a later date and return to Deeperblue as a regular contributor.
 

Erik

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2001
4,731
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Right wing, us? Typical reaction. I would consider myself something between a socialist and an anarchist. That doesn't stop me from intelligent conversation and diving with those whose politics conflict with mine. No-one here is advocating that Freediver UK does not have the right to do what they want; that was stated at the beginning. We were, in fact, involved in a grass-roots, democratic discussion about whether we felt insulted by the use of sex (specifically the debasement of women) in advertising....the ad in FDUK is part of that. If you choose to support that sort of mentality, then have at it, but any responses that basically say "it's my ball, and I'm going home" or ridiculous accusations about others' political leanings mearly prove my point.
Some of the opposing voices have used intelligent and moderate tone, and that's appreciated and respected. Hopefully we can meet and dive together sometime. If some of you are comfortable living in a society where your families are programmed from day1 to be mass-consumers at all costs, including the mental and physical health of the society (and the planet), then so be it, but most of the divers I have met, especially freedivers, have a greater awareness of that issue and respect themselves and the community (local or global) to a greater degree than average.
And by the way, I have bought products from FDUK in the past...is FDUK a registered charity? Funny how all of a sudden, Deeper Blue is now a commercial enterprise, and FDUK never was one. I doubt if anybody at FDUK is altruistic enough to be selling product at cost, so the money's going somewhere. I seem to remember adamantly defending Howard's price of the Dolphin Tank Weekends a while back, when people were complaining about the cost....maybe I should feel even better about that, if all the profit was going to the Red Cross or Unicef?
Cheers,
Erik Y.
 

Cliff Etzel

Photographer & Visual Storyteller
Jul 7, 2000
549
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I'm a closet Ecotopian...

Read the book in college and it transformed my way of thinking...

I think the books premise and freediving go hand in hand - from my POV...
 

gflemming

New Member
Oct 5, 2001
2
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Hasn't this thread gone too far?
In the final analysis isn't the FDUK ad just a question of taste? What more should be read into it? You like it...you don't.
To boycott a business or fight amoung ourselves over an ad is a little excessive.
Secondly, I realize how difficult it must be to express oneself in a second language...the difference between the intention and how it's interpreted can have devastating results. And although I am certain that it wasn't intended to have the effect it did, Cliff's comments about "adolescent discussions" over at Freediver UK are tantamount to mud-slinging and shouldn't have been written.
I hope we can all get back to discussions that more directly relate to our sport and bury the hatchet on this one.
At least, that's my opinion.
 

icarus pacific

Human-in-training
Nov 7, 2001
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OK, let's try this again

Peter,

Your "taking your ball and leaving" is an apt description and the result is that all of us suffer.

Whatever the behind the scenes politicking is with FDUK and DB, that's a side issue to the one that Erik opened and explained at the outset of this thread. As a number of us have opined, the use of the model suggestivly posing in the ad for the shirt was degrading and an offront to that section of the public that feels that we as a society, Euro and otherwise, have arrived at a point where that type of advetising is passe'. As my daughter says, sitting here and egging me on, "Yeah! Why isn't the guy wearing ball huggers and groping in his ad, and why isn't the diver in the wetsuit tonguing for the camera?" Kids... I don't know where they get it from...

What a minute! Yes I do! As I stated earlier, when an organization, commercial or not, choses to recognize the type of ad that offends rather than educates, that organization is effectively fostering it. And to what end- to sell a shirt?

You're an educated and articulate guy Peter. I have read with interest your work, and particularly enjoyed your writng about yoga. Indeed your articles gave me the impetus to enroll in classes and my diving and health have benefited. I would hope that you would not remove from the public at large that talent which you possess.

The argument that I could just click on FDUK to view your work is valid, however the manner in which the powers that be there have decided to promote their work is not palatable to me, thus I won't go there, shop there, and participate. Both of our losses really.

That sucking sound you may hear in the back of your mind, given the opportunity to listen, is the credibility you are losing down the drain.

sven
 

Erik

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2001
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Originally posted by gflemming
Hasn't this thread gone too far?
.
I hope we can all get back to discussions that more directly relate to our sport and bury the hatchet on this one.
At least, that's my opinion.

Well said, Fred (I'm a poet?).
I think most of us have had our say. We're drifting off into another sort of discussion, which is much broader than freediving. I invite anyone that wants to talk with me about my ethics, philosophy, politics, or spirituality to email me directly at [email protected] . I'm not trying to change anybody's mind about anything, that's pointless. Just trying to say who I am, and am always interested in who others are.
Cheers,
Erik Y.
 

icarus pacific

Human-in-training
Nov 7, 2001
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Originally posted by Erik


Well said, Fred (I'm a poet?).

Erik Y.

Uh, no Erik, you're not. :waterwork

But wasn't Well Said Fred an 80's band prancing around in ripped and suggestive Tshirts?? rofl I'm too sexy for my wetsuit..

Man I wish the weather's die down so I could go diving....:head

sven
 

A Brownsword

Well-Known Member
Mar 25, 2002
102
3
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Re: Ultra-conservative, right-wing, politically-correct, reactionaries unite!

Boy, this turned into a nasty little firefight, didn't it?

The ad posted on that website has nothing to do with being "ultra-converative", "right-wing", or "politically-correct" -- and neither do (most) of the responses in this thread. I'm on this site (or on automotive sites) to read about freediving (or cars), not to browse pictures of provocatively posed, scantily clad women... I could mis-type pretty much any URL if I wanted that. I'm new to the freediving scene, and it seems like a fairly level headed & mature bunch of people who are focussed on a common interest. I'm not keen on the idea of sites like this one losing their focus and turning into mindless drivel devoid of content and filled with pictures that have nothing to do with freediving. And that ad is how it starts because once you broaden your focus to include sex, you broaden your audience to a very large group who have little interest in any serious discussion of freediving. The webmasters set the mood (intentionally or otherwise), and if "The Bar" is lowered, and it never gets raised again. Been there, seen it happen.
 

thin_air

Alphabet
Sep 15, 2001
404
27
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Ultra-conservative, right-wing, politically-correct, reactionaries unite!

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains."
- Sir Winston Churchill

i have no heart then? then again being politically correct would be using 20,000,000 words to say that i find the use of women in that way inappropriate..

never once did we criticise FDUK, i personally would not want the SPORT of freediving to be associated with the image of these women, "Oh ya, freediving isnt that where you dive with hot chicks in bikinis?" wouldnt you rather hear. "Oh ya, freediving isnt that what Tanya Streeter/Mandy-Rae Cruickshank/Audre Mestre does, isnt she, like, really good and stuff.." which one would you rather have? i understand that the funds might not have allowed you to get those women to do the ads but if you explained the situation im sure they would understand... (or you could use a lesser know person and at the bottom of the ad put something like, "55meters, 3:10, 1 breath"

just as surfing has turned into a sport where you think of surfing and you see a guy waving to a group of bikini clad women on the beach. (i think that that image is wrong to but thats for another day...)

and is it really worth it that 2 of the best freediving web sites on the net fight over 1 picture??

think about it
 

Erik

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2001
4,731
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I think it was Right said Fred (too sexy for my shirt). Man, can you say "irony"? LOL!
Vince, as I've said before, go and hug your parents, and tell them thanks for whatever it is they're doing bringing you up. Others are not so lucky.
Hopefully in a couple of years, when you're old enough to travel, we can meet at a DBlue get together somewhere, dive, poke fish and laugh about "old times" !
Cheers Vince,
Erik Y.
 

icarus pacific

Human-in-training
Nov 7, 2001
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ahhh... bless fifteen year olds.


and stay clear of my daughter. I've heard about you freedivers.

sven
 

thin_air

Alphabet
Sep 15, 2001
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Originally posted by icarus pacific
ahhh... bless fifteen year olds.


and stay clear of my daughter. I've heard about you freedivers.

sven

i have to compliment your daughter on the use of her words :cool:, i would almost say shes french:cool:

what, may i ask, have you heard about us freedivers?

from my point of view we seem to be
1.In school busy 24/7 and a ladies man :cool:
2.In school busy 24/7 and NOT a ladies man OR
3.Stuck in the real world (working and having a family) OR if your real lucky...
4.In a warm place, single(maybe a wife/girlfriend that like freediving), inherited a fortune and freedive all day long :D :cool:

im not gonna waste my days trying to extend them..:D

ps. stephan or cliff, the : praise smilie doesnt work... :praise
 
Last edited:

Amphibious

Working Class Spearo
Mar 17, 2002
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Freedivers and slut'n about?

Hmmm...

"Thats right little lady! I can hold my breath THAT long!"

'nuff said....

Qui ton papa, belle pitune! Tabernac.....

:wave

Willer
 

Ron Brandt

Active Member
Apr 5, 2002
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>understand... (or you could use a lesser know person and at >the bottom of the ad put something like, "55meters, 3:10, 1 >breath"

Now That would would work !

The new shots on the site also look better.

I never thought in my wildest dreams that some day I would be participating in a forum with some big guns of the freediving world and most of all over a t-shirt ad !

I have also enjoyed the content on both FDUK and Deeper Blue and it would be a shame to have any editorial content removed from either one.
This thread was almost going the way of some threads on Techdiver. :)

Ron
 
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