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Skin for Dynamics

deepRelax

Active Member
Jul 27, 2007
31
2
43
Hi,
What is your advice on doing DNF with Elios 1.5 Yamamoto 45 wetsuit ?
Many thanks in advance,
Eric
 

Philip Fennell

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2014
186
101
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I note one other thread that asks about the Salvimar Fluyd Zeero. Being a polyurethane material (0.5mm thickness) it has no buoyancy to speak of. No additional buoyancy is claimed as an advantage because you don't need so much weight. But in the case of dynamics weight brings momentum.

So my question would be, for pool use (DYN/DNF), is it better to go for very flexible very low buoyancy polyurethane suit that gives freedom of movement at the cost of less momentum (shorter glide) or say a 2-3mm neoprene suit with some additional weight that gives you a longer glide at the expense of a slightly more restricted freedom of movement?

It goes without saying that with the extra weight you need to get it moving - more effort at start and turns but once you're moving it should be an advantage, yes?

Anyone got any practical experience comparing the two scenarios?
 
Reactions: xbuster

Kars

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2003
3,443
566
203
41
The Netherlands
www.freeapnea.nl
I think your analysis is good. I too prefer buoyancy , so I can carry more weight and have more momentum.

My question would be about the polyurethane's insulation properties? if they are just as good as standard neoprene, then it would be great for depth!
 

MarcinB

Well-Known Member
Oct 26, 2012
245
59
68
Bialystok/Poland
In my opinion we shouldn't bother too much about the momentum. 1mm skin for dynamic requires only ~1kg of additional weight. Momentum is related to mass not weight. For a freediver with body mass of 80kg, one additional kilogram would increase momentum by only 1.25%.

The biggest disadvantage of the polyurethane skin, as far as dynamic is concerned, is that it doesn't increase leg buoyancy, which for most males is a serious problem. Sinking legs would make much greater difference in glide distance than a small change in momentum. However, for women polyurethane my be a better option than neoprene which in their case usually increases leg buoyancy too much.

Regarding the insulation properties of polyurethane, there is no chance that they can match neoprene.
 
Reactions: Kars

Scorp

Well-Known Member
Dec 15, 2006
92
9
48
Austria and Italy
hi, I can tell you my experiences. i had the orca equipe lite (1 mm), which i loved and used for many years in the pool for DNF, until i had to replace it. so I bought the fluyd zeero. I expected miraculous gliding properties, but strange enough, I glided better with the orca. I didn't want to believe that, and I really experimented carefully in the pool, using the same amount of weights (4 kg neckweight) for both suits (exhaling a bit with the orca to reach perfect buoyancy). With the orca, I need 3 relaxed strokes for 25 m, and with the same technique, using the zeero, i came about 2 m short from this distance. Another issue I had was that my legs, with the zeero, were always sinking a bit down during the glide phase. I am tall and skinny, and obviously I need a bit of neopren around my legs to keep me in perfect horizontal position. So i sold the suit again. It's really well made and probably also good for DYN because arm position is not really affected by the very elastic material - but for me the zeero is not ideal. so i tried the aquasphere aquaskin - and this suit I find really great! I was amazed that I gained half a stroke on the 25 distance compared to the Orca (tried again with the same amount of weights). However, I need 1 kg more weight with this suit, and the cut is good for hyper-athletic body tipes. I am 190 cm and 75 kg, but size L is far to loose everywhere, so I use M which fits ok, even though the crotch-shoulder distance could be a bit longer ... (the cut of the zeero is different, narrower, tighter - L was good for me).
Maybe this helps ...
cheers,
ivo
 
Reactions: xbuster and Kars

Philip Fennell

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2014
186
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Thanks for the excellent feedback @Kars , @MarcinB and @Scorp. I did some basic maths for momentum and the difference between me with and without my current weight (5lb neck + 2lb waist) is about 1%, so no, not a huge difference in those results. The next thing to do is follow this up with some empirical measurements in the pool.

The Salvinar Zeero, as pointed out, would provide very little in the way of thermal insulation so would be of only real use in the pool but I was surprised by the difference in observed performance reported by @Scorp . Currently, as far as I can tell when I'm carry 5lb on my neck I also need a further 2lb on my waist to set me with an even trim and that's without any suit.

I'm leaning towards a thin neoprene smooth skin suit because it'd be more versatile.
 

Philip Fennell

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2014
186
101
58
51
As a follow-up, I was talking to some freedivers recently and those who've tried the Fluyd Zeero really like it and have reported noticeable improvements in their glide in DNF. They also find the great elasticity a bonus too. One of them also reported, due to it not being neoprene that they were now a bit heavy in the legs which confirms @Scorp 's observations.

Having said that I was leaning towards a thin neoprene smooth skin I'm now leaning back the other way towards the Zeero. I don't have to make the decision just yet so I'll see if anyone else chimes in on this thread.
 

Philip Fennell

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2014
186
101
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51
...
Having said that I was leaning towards a thin neoprene smooth skin I'm now leaning back the other way towards the Zeero. I don't have to make the decision just yet so I'll see if anyone else chimes in on this thread.
I still cannot lose the notion of trying the Zeero. I've tried contacting Salvimar a number of times regarding a suitable size to go for, given my proportions, but I don't fit neatly into one size. It looks like an 'L' but for my length of back and arms which'd better suit an 2XL. They never bothered to reply. (n)

Anyone have any experience on sizing? Given it's a stretchy suit would I be better-off fitting for the torso? I'm thinking too loose and it'll cause drag if it wrinkles-up and flaps about!
 

Philip Fennell

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2014
186
101
58
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I spoke to another freediver, this last weekend, who had owned a Zeero and she'd sold it on. Said the fit was all wrong, very narrow and the sleeves/legs were far too short. So far that's two people I've met who like these suits and two who've tried and found it wanting in one respect or the other.

I'm thinking if I go for the 'L' for the torso fit I'm still going to end-up struggling to get in it, I'm 83kg and as I'm 188cm tall it'll come up short and with the back zip it'll not have much capacity to stretch to the right length.
 

Philip Fennell

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2014
186
101
58
51
Philip,
I have same height and weight as You...and Aqualung Freedive (1,5mm) suit is just perfect for me in size M.
Thanks @mattbigblue, that's really interesting. Having looked at two, different, size charts for the Aqua Lung Sport Apnea freediving suit:

http://gofreediving.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Aqua-Lung-Sport-Apnea-Freediving-Suit-1.5mm-sizing-chart.pdf

and

New Aquaskin sizing chart.JPG


I would only have thought to try on a 'L' and would never have guessed I could fit in a 'M'.

I've heard nothing but positive things about this suit. I'll have to try one on but a good recommendation and a good sizing comparison is as good as sold.

Thanks again :)
 
OP
OP
mattbigblue

mattbigblue

Limitless - Mateusz 'Matt' Malina
Nov 7, 2008
218
42
68
Poland, Cracow
mattmalina.com
I'm 187 and at the moment 83 kg..but when I was competing in Turku for instance I had 87 kg and still this suit was great :)
the max weight I had was 89 kg and I was still using size M.

I guess body shape might be a factor too so consider that...
p.s. I never look on size charts, I just try wetsuits first..
 
Reactions: izirajder

MarcinB

Well-Known Member
Oct 26, 2012
245
59
68
Bialystok/Poland
Philip, you should know that Matt prefers super tight wetsuits :)
I'm 188cm and 82kg, and Aqualung Freedive suit size M is quite tight, especially in the arms (and my arms are far from being muscular). It stretches after some time, however, at the beginning it's a bit uncomfortable. If I had a chance to try it before buying I would take L. Skins for dynamic tear quickly if they're too tight.
 
OP
OP
mattbigblue

mattbigblue

Limitless - Mateusz 'Matt' Malina
Nov 7, 2008
218
42
68
Poland, Cracow
mattmalina.com
MarcinB is right. I totally forgot I'm guilty by advising him wrong size.
Yes indeed I like tight wetsuits for performance cause after 1-2x they are not tight for me anymore...
It's also true they wear off much faster because of it...best example is that after 5 months I already have tears under armpits, while my friend has 1 wetsuit for 2 years and not a single scratch...but his wetsuit is not as tight fitted as mine..
 
Reactions: Kars

Philip Fennell

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2014
186
101
58
51
MarcinB is right. I totally forgot I'm guilty by advising him wrong size.
Yes indeed I like tight wetsuits for performance cause after 1-2x they are not tight for me anymore...
It's also true they wear off much faster because of it...best example is that after 5 months I already have tears under armpits, while my friend has 1 wetsuit for 2 years and not a single scratch...but his wetsuit is not as tight fitted as mine..
Thank you @mattbigblue and @MarcinB for the clarification. It made me think about my current pool suit, a 'cheap and cheerful' Decathlon - Nabaiji 100, is a size M and it's as tight as a drum on me, fits very smoothly, but I want something with better quality materials that has more stretch, which is what I hope the Aqualung suit will provide.

I'm going to try some on next month M and L and then that'll be my main Christmas present sorted. :)

Thanks again for the comments, very useful. I feel I'm making the right choice now.
 

Scorp

Well-Known Member
Dec 15, 2006
92
9
48
Austria and Italy
MarcinB is right. I totally forgot I'm guilty by advising him wrong size.
Yes indeed I like tight wetsuits for performance cause after 1-2x they are not tight for me anymore...
It's also true they wear off much faster because of it...best example is that after 5 months I already have tears under armpits, while my friend has 1 wetsuit for 2 years and not a single scratch...but his wetsuit is not as tight fitted as mine..
hi matt,
can I ask you: is the cut of the aqualung freedive suit pretty much the same as for the aquasphere aquaskin? (I would like to give it a try, and since i use size M on the aquasphere, maybe M is also the size to go for the aqualung freedive ... or is the cut different, and maybe size M/L would be better, since I am tall (190 cm by 75 kg).
Thanks,
Ivo
 

MarcinB

Well-Known Member
Oct 26, 2012
245
59
68
Bialystok/Poland
I have both Freedive suit and Aquaskin (the new model) size M and they are pretty much the same as far as the cut is considered. However, Aqualung is a better option for tall people since you are able to bend forward freely while wearing it which is not the case for Aquaskin (I'm 188cm). According to the size chart M/L has the same range of height as M, so in your case M should be better since you're very lean.
 

Scorp

Well-Known Member
Dec 15, 2006
92
9
48
Austria and Italy
I have both Freedive suit and Aquaskin (the new model) size M and they are pretty much the same as far as the cut is considered. However, Aqualung is a better option for tall people since you are able to bend forward freely while wearing it which is not the case for Aquaskin (I'm 188cm). According to the size chart M/L has the same range of height as M, so in your case M should be better since you're very lean.
thanks very much for this information!