No need to apologise Neale I believe everyone on this forum isopen minded, we all have our own opinions and we all love Spearfishing!!!!!
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South Devon report 2007
- Thread starterspearheads
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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Competitions are interesting* & I'd like to see them continue -- although I hope they don't become too popular. It is potentially the least sustainable & therefore hardest aspect of spearfishing to defend. The fact that they spear the same venues each year though suggests that it is sustainable at current levels.
Pete Crawford is a living legend. Kudos.
*Exploring the sea & hunting to feed the family with healthy, fresh, high quality, free-range, organic fish is of even more interest though!
I guess that would be one way to encourage smaller bags & preservation of smaller fish. Might be harder to get the enthusiasm to dive for 6 hours under such conditions though. Surprised that competitors don't get to keep the fish they spear (perhaps to ensure no waste?).
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Neale, you are an extremely talented spearo... and it obviously runs in the family! You are a spearo... and have just as much right to be here as the rest of us... your pics were certainyl welcome, and it is always great to hear from a new member of deeperblue. Your catches are very very impressive indeed, and you have no need to apologise for wanting to share them with us.
Thanks, and I know i (as well as probably many others) look forward to hearing of more trips and catches!
Huw.
Thanks, and I know i (as well as probably many others) look forward to hearing of more trips and catches!
Huw.
This was my first year of spearfishing competitions and seeing some of the catches pulled out by some of these guys is extremely impressive and shows how experienced/skillful they really are. What i liked about the competitions was how there was different styles of hunting at each venue. Like sandy bay was (mostly) hole fishing while Thurlestone the fish were out in the open.
But these comps are mostly at the same venue each year so knowing the ground like the back of your hand may help.
Some of the the competitions venues were very tough to dive, sandy bay for example god knows how fast the tide was running for 6 hours. Staying alive was tough let alone catching fish. I have come to the conclusion peter Crawford is mermaid man.rofl
Well i had fun at the comps along with winning a few guns , maybe not the losing a gun part.rofl
I don't believe a few spearfishing competitions each year can cause serious damage to fish stocks.
Matt.
But these comps are mostly at the same venue each year so knowing the ground like the back of your hand may help.
Some of the the competitions venues were very tough to dive, sandy bay for example god knows how fast the tide was running for 6 hours. Staying alive was tough let alone catching fish. I have come to the conclusion peter Crawford is mermaid man.rofl
Well i had fun at the comps along with winning a few guns , maybe not the losing a gun part.rofl
I don't believe a few spearfishing competitions each year can cause serious damage to fish stocks.
Matt.
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Dang! that got a bit nerve'ie reading the posts,
Neale im sorry if i caused you discomfort im just surprised to see that many fish on a stinger, having not entered or not really being intresed in comps i had a vague impression of them.
so forget i said a thing, and if we meet im sure i'lled stick a pint up at the bar :friday,
Neale im sorry if i caused you discomfort im just surprised to see that many fish on a stinger, having not entered or not really being intresed in comps i had a vague impression of them.
so forget i said a thing, and if we meet im sure i'lled stick a pint up at the bar :friday,
I think of competitions as being a bit like F1 racing and space exploration - most of us don't get to take part but we all benefit from the innovations that find their way down to the lower levels.
Also like F1 and space exploration there are always questions asked about whether they are environmentally friendly and morally justifiable.
Keep going guys!
Also like F1 and space exploration there are always questions asked about whether they are environmentally friendly and morally justifiable.
Keep going guys!
Sorry to rain on the Pro Competition brigade here, but comp's are a PR nightmare for the sport. What good can they possibly do for both the sport, public opinion and the local stocks ?.
No doubt Pete and Neale are excellent spearo's and very nice chaps, but please, honestly, how many times have you been in a position to shoot a myriad of 2-3lb fish in a session ?.
Fortunately myself and several fellow spearo's regularly have...we simply don't take them, focussing on 4lb+, max 3-4 fish each.
We are not a group of tree hugging beardies here, but we have no compunction to enter a culling competition, followed by the PR nightmare of the 'weigh in' in a public car park.
We're not getting political as one post suggested, or one could have started a thread titled ' Competitions...Fair Game ?' or something of the like.
I just feel that the forum is there for debate, to express your opinion without getting personal.
No doubt Pete and Neale are excellent spearo's and very nice chaps, but please, honestly, how many times have you been in a position to shoot a myriad of 2-3lb fish in a session ?.
Fortunately myself and several fellow spearo's regularly have...we simply don't take them, focussing on 4lb+, max 3-4 fish each.
We are not a group of tree hugging beardies here, but we have no compunction to enter a culling competition, followed by the PR nightmare of the 'weigh in' in a public car park.
We're not getting political as one post suggested, or one could have started a thread titled ' Competitions...Fair Game ?' or something of the like.
I just feel that the forum is there for debate, to express your opinion without getting personal.
I am ambivalent. I tried my first comps this year and fully intend to do more next year.
I know this may sound a bit stupid - but that hasn't stopped me before - I don't like all the fish getting killed for the sake of competition rather than my own consumption. I also think that in some people's eyes the 'weigh in' might look offensive and create a bad rep for the sport. There are alot of small fish, which, although within the legal size limits, looks quite wasteful to some people.
So I do have an uneasiness but...
Why do I want to do more competitions?
1. Because I enjoyed it
2. It is, in my opinion, a very good way of improving your skills and knowledge - primarily by watching and then copying the approach used by the many very experienced other spearos in the comp
3. Most of the time I go spearfishing alone mainly due to timing/availability of other buddies and I like the social side
4. There are often gear suppliers to get new stuff from
5. I like seeing all the caught fish, and I like watching people bringing in their catch - especially knowing how bl$$dy hard it is to do.
Just my 2ps worth - my own opinion - nothing personal
I know this may sound a bit stupid - but that hasn't stopped me before - I don't like all the fish getting killed for the sake of competition rather than my own consumption. I also think that in some people's eyes the 'weigh in' might look offensive and create a bad rep for the sport. There are alot of small fish, which, although within the legal size limits, looks quite wasteful to some people.
So I do have an uneasiness but...
Why do I want to do more competitions?
1. Because I enjoyed it
2. It is, in my opinion, a very good way of improving your skills and knowledge - primarily by watching and then copying the approach used by the many very experienced other spearos in the comp
3. Most of the time I go spearfishing alone mainly due to timing/availability of other buddies and I like the social side
4. There are often gear suppliers to get new stuff from
5. I like seeing all the caught fish, and I like watching people bringing in their catch - especially knowing how bl$$dy hard it is to do.
Just my 2ps worth - my own opinion - nothing personal
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What goes around comes around. There was a thread called "Ethical" Tournament setup and this is a copy of my post. It’s worth reading the thread even if you think my post is naff.
http://forums.deeperblue.net/spearo-board/70866-ethical-tournament-setup.html
Sea angling competions have been having the same problems. Whatever becomes of the fish afterwards (yes spaghetti's right about disposal) the weighing in of large amounts of obviously dead fish can cause problems. Anglers have tried catch and release (which works in freshwater) bur not so successful with sea fish and definitely not much use to spearo's.
The most popular competition is the specimen hunt. Nominate all the species found in your waters that you could spear. Leave out any endangered, small or rare species or anything illegal to hunt. Specify a minimum size (and maximum if you want). The winner is the person catching most species and gaining most points (more points for certain species). You only need to catch one of each species within the weight limits. Catching the biggest fish gains you no extra points. So once you have caught a specimen of a species you need catch no more of that species. Provided you have a good range of types of fish then this type of competition is a real test of skill. Only a relatively small number of fish are killed. You can give more points for some species than others and set weight limits to alter the degree of difficulty.
The only time this doesn't work is if you only have 2 or 3 species in your area, which is rare. In that case you can factor in a number ie 3 of each species instead of 1.
This system works very well and we now see little in the way of mass slaughter, maximum weight/biggest fish competitions. It is also definitely much more skillful.
Dave
http://forums.deeperblue.net/spearo-board/70866-ethical-tournament-setup.html
Sea angling competions have been having the same problems. Whatever becomes of the fish afterwards (yes spaghetti's right about disposal) the weighing in of large amounts of obviously dead fish can cause problems. Anglers have tried catch and release (which works in freshwater) bur not so successful with sea fish and definitely not much use to spearo's.
The most popular competition is the specimen hunt. Nominate all the species found in your waters that you could spear. Leave out any endangered, small or rare species or anything illegal to hunt. Specify a minimum size (and maximum if you want). The winner is the person catching most species and gaining most points (more points for certain species). You only need to catch one of each species within the weight limits. Catching the biggest fish gains you no extra points. So once you have caught a specimen of a species you need catch no more of that species. Provided you have a good range of types of fish then this type of competition is a real test of skill. Only a relatively small number of fish are killed. You can give more points for some species than others and set weight limits to alter the degree of difficulty.
The only time this doesn't work is if you only have 2 or 3 species in your area, which is rare. In that case you can factor in a number ie 3 of each species instead of 1.
This system works very well and we now see little in the way of mass slaughter, maximum weight/biggest fish competitions. It is also definitely much more skillful.
Dave
[/ATTACH][/ATTACH]hi all. me and some friends went freediving in cornwall. we got these quite rad photos of mackrel and couple of basking sharks great site under water hope you like
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Another set of nice pics mate!!!! For the comps... both sides have compelling points, and to be honest - i really think i could argue either way. I have seen pictures of some french competition results and it was just piles of small wrasse, and skinny congers... and i couldn't for the life of me figure out the purpose.
At the end of the day it really comes down to personal opinion, and while i haven't competed before (primarily because i'm not good enough!!) that doesnt mean i wouldnt later on.
It is so important that we can all share our feelings though in a way that no one gets flamed for expressing their own opinions or beliefs, and while that continues, I will continue to enjoy reading the posts from both perspectives.
I don't think anyone will argue that the catches we have seen though take a great deal of skill to pull off.
Huw.
At the end of the day it really comes down to personal opinion, and while i haven't competed before (primarily because i'm not good enough!!) that doesnt mean i wouldnt later on.
It is so important that we can all share our feelings though in a way that no one gets flamed for expressing their own opinions or beliefs, and while that continues, I will continue to enjoy reading the posts from both perspectives.
I don't think anyone will argue that the catches we have seen though take a great deal of skill to pull off.
Huw.
nice pics Neale,
Seems i started this I'm going set my opinion straight and never talk of it again,
I'm a bit of a Conservative guy in that i believe what you take you also most give, when i dive not only do i spear fish but observe them and clean any litter, nets or fishing tackle trapped in rocks or floating on the surface, 1 thing i notice the most is what sea anglers leave behind from fishing to bits of news paper in which they got there rag or the bags used for frozen like mackerel and sand eels,
i believe that you most only take what you can eat and give to Friends (to which i pick family's that our low on money but try very hard to make ends meet) so i will only take 4 fish 1 for me and 3 for friends, i could stay more than 1 hour in the water and spear alot more but i only go for fish i "sniper" not the ones that swim past but the ones Ive worked hard to get close to,
for me over fishing has an effect on the Eco system that not just effects humans, as we all know numbers in fish have reduced a fair bit and this is mainly due to troller boats, but per say we can all have an effect on the environment by doing the smallest things.
Spearfishing is an amazing sport in which it works all muscle groups and trains the mind, it is demanding on he body and for them few who follow this as a sport to compete against others is an amazing achievement and should never be over looked, by removing comps then the popularity of the sport would reduce and thats never a good thing.
But i guess the point I'm trying to make the most is that like you Neale you come from a family of spearo's as mine is sea angling and my granddad always tells me "that it use to be better fishing when he was younger" so the point is "in being Conservative of what you take from the water we can ensure a spearfishing future for yours and mine children and grandchildren"
Sorry if i go on but there i said it and i will say no more.
Seems i started this I'm going set my opinion straight and never talk of it again,
I'm a bit of a Conservative guy in that i believe what you take you also most give, when i dive not only do i spear fish but observe them and clean any litter, nets or fishing tackle trapped in rocks or floating on the surface, 1 thing i notice the most is what sea anglers leave behind from fishing to bits of news paper in which they got there rag or the bags used for frozen like mackerel and sand eels,
i believe that you most only take what you can eat and give to Friends (to which i pick family's that our low on money but try very hard to make ends meet) so i will only take 4 fish 1 for me and 3 for friends, i could stay more than 1 hour in the water and spear alot more but i only go for fish i "sniper" not the ones that swim past but the ones Ive worked hard to get close to,
for me over fishing has an effect on the Eco system that not just effects humans, as we all know numbers in fish have reduced a fair bit and this is mainly due to troller boats, but per say we can all have an effect on the environment by doing the smallest things.
Spearfishing is an amazing sport in which it works all muscle groups and trains the mind, it is demanding on he body and for them few who follow this as a sport to compete against others is an amazing achievement and should never be over looked, by removing comps then the popularity of the sport would reduce and thats never a good thing.
But i guess the point I'm trying to make the most is that like you Neale you come from a family of spearo's as mine is sea angling and my granddad always tells me "that it use to be better fishing when he was younger" so the point is "in being Conservative of what you take from the water we can ensure a spearfishing future for yours and mine children and grandchildren"
Sorry if i go on but there i said it and i will say no more.
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I have had the personal pleasure of meeting Pete Crawford at numerous 'UK comps'. He is a living legend in the UK spearo community and highly regarded in many other countries. I won't add fuel to the debate regarding competitive spearing as I no longer compete; however, Pete Crawford doesn't just shoot fish in competitions, he has been an active spearo in the UK for decades! Yes he can shoot an impressive haul of fish but they are always well over the limit and a few pictures don't tell all the story, i.e. this guy has been on thousands of hunting trips and the photos you see are maybe a snapshot of the better ones. I remember fishing at a BSA Portland comp. a few years ago and Pete had waited for all of the mad rush to die down and then calmly fished a deep undercut to take a nice cod. He then exited the sea, deposited his catch in fish box and returned to the comp. These were not the actions of a fish-crazed murderer, but selective spearing at it's best; no-one else shot a cod. UK spearing has its roots and history, Peter Crawford is an integral part of it, I hope I can carry the torch when I reach 50, let alone 70. My 10p....Juan.
Dave,
A step in the right direction I agree, though it would be better to take one of each species and specify a higher minimum size for that location, taking into account that the competitors are experienced spearo's. However I also know some excellent spearo's who do not compete for the same principles, and cannot honestly concur with comp spearo's being held in the utter reverence that they seem to be. Mr Crawford senior excluded as at that age, simply putting on a wetsuit would prove too much for the majority.
As far as the popularity of the sport is concerned, there is no way that it would diminish just because the comp scene has either stopped or been reviewed.
Nobody IMO would 'give up' or not start because comp's were not available.
The social scene could be enhanced through the set up of local clubs etc. This would also protect the rights of spearo's in your area against any possible restrictive legislation through the set up of a recognized, registered body outside the BSA.
A step in the right direction I agree, though it would be better to take one of each species and specify a higher minimum size for that location, taking into account that the competitors are experienced spearo's. However I also know some excellent spearo's who do not compete for the same principles, and cannot honestly concur with comp spearo's being held in the utter reverence that they seem to be. Mr Crawford senior excluded as at that age, simply putting on a wetsuit would prove too much for the majority.
As far as the popularity of the sport is concerned, there is no way that it would diminish just because the comp scene has either stopped or been reviewed.
Nobody IMO would 'give up' or not start because comp's were not available.
The social scene could be enhanced through the set up of local clubs etc. This would also protect the rights of spearo's in your area against any possible restrictive legislation through the set up of a recognized, registered body outside the BSA.
If we are going to have a discussion on competitions maybe it should go on a separate thread.
Recently there was a thread where Scott Turgeon (sturgeon), got into an argument with someone on this subject, and ended up asking to be unsubscribed from this forum. I don't want to cause bad feeling but I think this subject should be open to discussion.
I have tried to find this thread but can't remember the name of Scotts opponent in this arguement.(I believe he was a moderator at the time). I personally agreed with him that having a large number of skilled spearos concentrate into a small area and catch as many fish as possible, can't fail to have a bad effect on that area.I still believe this and in case anyone wants to call me a tree hugger I believe mature trees should be respected too!
Holding the weigh in privately and giving fish to deserving causes may mask the damage but won't reduce it. Who wants to see a fishing competition held in their secret hotspot? Not me anyway. The fact that most spearos are reluctant to direct people to their secret spots suggests to me that they know overfishing has an effect.
The type of competition where only one fish is shot and weighed in could be a good way to go, providing competitors could be monitored to avoid lesser fish being shot then discarded for a bigger one.
To put things in perspective though, one trawler probably kills a lot more fish than a spearfishing competition and hundreds of them are out there every day so while I do think competitions are bad for the inshore areas I think it important that all spearos stand together with anglers, recreational divers etc to work towards conserving the sea and its life. This is more important than money or fame.
Recently there was a thread where Scott Turgeon (sturgeon), got into an argument with someone on this subject, and ended up asking to be unsubscribed from this forum. I don't want to cause bad feeling but I think this subject should be open to discussion.
I have tried to find this thread but can't remember the name of Scotts opponent in this arguement.(I believe he was a moderator at the time). I personally agreed with him that having a large number of skilled spearos concentrate into a small area and catch as many fish as possible, can't fail to have a bad effect on that area.I still believe this and in case anyone wants to call me a tree hugger I believe mature trees should be respected too!
Holding the weigh in privately and giving fish to deserving causes may mask the damage but won't reduce it. Who wants to see a fishing competition held in their secret hotspot? Not me anyway. The fact that most spearos are reluctant to direct people to their secret spots suggests to me that they know overfishing has an effect.
The type of competition where only one fish is shot and weighed in could be a good way to go, providing competitors could be monitored to avoid lesser fish being shot then discarded for a bigger one.
To put things in perspective though, one trawler probably kills a lot more fish than a spearfishing competition and hundreds of them are out there every day so while I do think competitions are bad for the inshore areas I think it important that all spearos stand together with anglers, recreational divers etc to work towards conserving the sea and its life. This is more important than money or fame.