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Spearfishing on scuba
- Thread startersnamreh
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Hi rigdvr
You were right about not seeing a any posts before, because I have reading for a couple of years now but never joined. I do not know why butt ok... I hope you also see my point in the scene that if I see someone scuba spearing in greece I would also warn him that this is forbidden and that he can go to jail for this... And believe me jail in greece is not a vacation.... I have to admit killer pics...A huge touche on that :duh I have not posted pics because I just recently bought a digital camera and I will start taking pics of my dinners
.......
I have been spearfishing in miami, florida keys and mexico... Also went to sharm in egypt to train with umberto pelizzari but did not bring my speargun.. And also off course in greece, france and spain... Working on italy...
Just for info I live in Holland and the half of my familie is greek and the other half is from holland.... (this is also the reason I was mad a couple of hours ago..) I took the things about people from greece a bit personal..... Sorry for that... But as I said before I have always respected every spearo, scuba or free diver..
Hope to talk to everyone under other surcomstances do not no if this is correctly written.. Does anyone have some vids of dentex???
ciao
You were right about not seeing a any posts before, because I have reading for a couple of years now but never joined. I do not know why butt ok... I hope you also see my point in the scene that if I see someone scuba spearing in greece I would also warn him that this is forbidden and that he can go to jail for this... And believe me jail in greece is not a vacation.... I have to admit killer pics...A huge touche on that :duh I have not posted pics because I just recently bought a digital camera and I will start taking pics of my dinners
.......I have been spearfishing in miami, florida keys and mexico... Also went to sharm in egypt to train with umberto pelizzari but did not bring my speargun.. And also off course in greece, france and spain... Working on italy...
Just for info I live in Holland and the half of my familie is greek and the other half is from holland.... (this is also the reason I was mad a couple of hours ago..) I took the things about people from greece a bit personal..... Sorry for that... But as I said before I have always respected every spearo, scuba or free diver..
Hope to talk to everyone under other surcomstances
do not no if this is correctly written.. Does anyone have some vids of dentex???ciao
All I know is that I sure can't buy in the store what my Daddy used to bring home after a good day of diving. I've never had lobster or abalone in a restaurant that could hold a candle to what I ate growing up. When the last can of beans and the last box of Kraft dinner was eaten from the cupboard and it was still a few days before the paycheck arrived, I was *forced* to eat bugs plucked off the ocean floor. Such a painful childhood I had ;-)
I don't know what they sell as "sea bass" in stores and restaurants, but it can't be the same species Dad was spearing in the 1970's off of Southern CA. And the halibut...! Of course my Mom's cooking probably helped too. MMmmm, I can still taste that fish stew she used to make...
But I *do* have to admit that my birthday dinner when I was ... six?... left a little to be desired. That conch shell *is* gorgeous, but the piece of shoe leather that lived in it didn't need to be a part of my diet as far as I'm concerned ;-)
I once told a gourmet chef about the "mock escargot" my Dad used to make. He laughed. Apparently snails are cheaper by the pound than abalone.
--Lorraine (Bill's daughter)
I don't know what they sell as "sea bass" in stores and restaurants, but it can't be the same species Dad was spearing in the 1970's off of Southern CA. And the halibut...! Of course my Mom's cooking probably helped too. MMmmm, I can still taste that fish stew she used to make...
But I *do* have to admit that my birthday dinner when I was ... six?... left a little to be desired. That conch shell *is* gorgeous, but the piece of shoe leather that lived in it didn't need to be a part of my diet as far as I'm concerned ;-)
I once told a gourmet chef about the "mock escargot" my Dad used to make. He laughed. Apparently snails are cheaper by the pound than abalone.
--Lorraine (Bill's daughter)
Huan said:
Any chance of getting some papers off you? Im always looking to add to my collection. Thats the problem with relying on Uni database access, its very limited, usually only to one or two international publications.
Money. Need we say more? Its the same reason why our federal government is still allowing fishing for Southern Bluefin Tuna, even while our state government (NSW) is declaring it a protected species.
No thanks, I dont feel like crying this early in the morning. If you've ever seen the footage taken by a camera attached to a OR net you'd cry. You can see century old black coral being ripped to shreds.
Maybe I should have said: "All fisheries bodies and regulatory bodies that deal with or control commercial fishing need to grow balls."
I'm getting pretty sick of seing "over-exploited" next to almost every fish species I look at.
Huan: I'll give ya a PM. You might be able to give me a bit more info on NA fishing stuff.
featherland said:
That's a wonderful testament, Lorraine. Give the Baron of Breathold my regards. :king
rig,
I know it seems impossible to someone who lives in the northern Gulf, but Ntrik is basicly right, especially for his area. Look at Cousteau's "Silent World" After WWII, there were huge populations of big grouper in the Med were traps nets and hooks had operated for thousands of years. Those grouper are gone. Look to me like spearos got most of them. I suspect it would just have taken a little longer if scuba wasn't available. Given the right circumstances, spearfishing (even freediving) can decimate shallow water populations of grouper and, for example, hogfish. The Keys are a great example. Fish populations there are much more vulnerable to excess harvest than in most of the Gulf of Mexico. Hogfish was my specialty and there is absolutely no doubt that spearos, mostly freediving, reduced the population in shallow water by much more than 90 percent. I was looking at some of the pics from one years keys kraze, made over several days, mostly in fairly deep water by a bunch divers far more skillful than me and with better gear. Nice catches for today, about what I would have thought was a decent day for me alone in the early 1970's and I never shot fish in more than 40 ft, and only with a sling. In the 50's anybody shooting fish that small would have been laughed at as a baby killer. I've been a commercial spearo and witnessed what its like to find essentially virgin spots in the keys, decimate them and see that they don't recover. Grouper populations in the keys were hammered by many different gears, but spearos definately did their part. If spears were the only gear, it would have taken longer, but the result would be the same. Thankfully there are at least some restrictions on catch today, probably needs to be a lot more restrictive.
I disagree with your ideas on the "migratoryness" of groupers, even the gags you are used to. There clearly are some fish that move around, spawning migrations do occur, and things like hurricanes can really move fish around. However, some grouper, even gags, are very much resident. There are too many stories of fishermen finding virgin spots, having a huge catch and its never the same again. Conversely I've known too many fishermen who had a sweet spot that nobody else knew about. They go there seldom and that huge stack of gags is always there. I've dove such places, so close the the beach that you can see people walking, 20 ft deep and loaded with hundreds of gags from 20 to 40 pounds. That place was always like that, for years, until my friend got caught on the spot by another fisherman. End of spot.
Consider the possibility that, on many of the rigs you dive, the grouper you see might be this years migrants. The much more abundant, long term residents may have been taken a long time ago.
Loved your recent post on tuna. Keep'em coming.
Connor
I know it seems impossible to someone who lives in the northern Gulf, but Ntrik is basicly right, especially for his area. Look at Cousteau's "Silent World" After WWII, there were huge populations of big grouper in the Med were traps nets and hooks had operated for thousands of years. Those grouper are gone. Look to me like spearos got most of them. I suspect it would just have taken a little longer if scuba wasn't available. Given the right circumstances, spearfishing (even freediving) can decimate shallow water populations of grouper and, for example, hogfish. The Keys are a great example. Fish populations there are much more vulnerable to excess harvest than in most of the Gulf of Mexico. Hogfish was my specialty and there is absolutely no doubt that spearos, mostly freediving, reduced the population in shallow water by much more than 90 percent. I was looking at some of the pics from one years keys kraze, made over several days, mostly in fairly deep water by a bunch divers far more skillful than me and with better gear. Nice catches for today, about what I would have thought was a decent day for me alone in the early 1970's and I never shot fish in more than 40 ft, and only with a sling. In the 50's anybody shooting fish that small would have been laughed at as a baby killer. I've been a commercial spearo and witnessed what its like to find essentially virgin spots in the keys, decimate them and see that they don't recover. Grouper populations in the keys were hammered by many different gears, but spearos definately did their part. If spears were the only gear, it would have taken longer, but the result would be the same. Thankfully there are at least some restrictions on catch today, probably needs to be a lot more restrictive.
I disagree with your ideas on the "migratoryness" of groupers, even the gags you are used to. There clearly are some fish that move around, spawning migrations do occur, and things like hurricanes can really move fish around. However, some grouper, even gags, are very much resident. There are too many stories of fishermen finding virgin spots, having a huge catch and its never the same again. Conversely I've known too many fishermen who had a sweet spot that nobody else knew about. They go there seldom and that huge stack of gags is always there. I've dove such places, so close the the beach that you can see people walking, 20 ft deep and loaded with hundreds of gags from 20 to 40 pounds. That place was always like that, for years, until my friend got caught on the spot by another fisherman. End of spot.
Consider the possibility that, on many of the rigs you dive, the grouper you see might be this years migrants. The much more abundant, long term residents may have been taken a long time ago.
Loved your recent post on tuna. Keep'em coming.
Connor
I have personal experience with several areas including Greece, S. Florida and the Bahamas. I think the reason that the fishery is better in the Gulf is that there is a huge area that grouper can be found (shallow water). Combine that with the fact that in order to "go out and spearfish" involves a major undertaking going offshore and running trips in excess of 50 miles. It is not easy to get to the fish.
In Greece, most spearfishing is done from the beach (similar to Hawaii). Certain species such as the dusky grouper, are residents of the litoral zone and like rocky bottom (no coral reef found in Greece). The drop-off are very steep going to 100's of feet just a few yards away from shore. Most of the commercial fishermen cannot target these groupers effectively due to snagging and loss of their equipment. The spearos are probably some of the main culprits for the decrease in numbers.
In S. Florida, we get some groupers but certainly not in the numbers that they are found in the Bahamas. Pollution, habitat loss etc are certainly reasons but we are also doing our part (long-lining is illegal here).
It all comes down to figuring out ways to maintain a sustainable fishery. I think here in the U.S. we have done a better job than in Europe but we are still not perfect.
In Greece, most spearfishing is done from the beach (similar to Hawaii). Certain species such as the dusky grouper, are residents of the litoral zone and like rocky bottom (no coral reef found in Greece). The drop-off are very steep going to 100's of feet just a few yards away from shore. Most of the commercial fishermen cannot target these groupers effectively due to snagging and loss of their equipment. The spearos are probably some of the main culprits for the decrease in numbers.
In S. Florida, we get some groupers but certainly not in the numbers that they are found in the Bahamas. Pollution, habitat loss etc are certainly reasons but we are also doing our part (long-lining is illegal here).
It all comes down to figuring out ways to maintain a sustainable fishery. I think here in the U.S. we have done a better job than in Europe but we are still not perfect.
Right on target frogman. Its happening in the Gulf as well, just slower because the place is so big. Local conditions make spearos a pretty small factor in most of the Gulf.
You are right, many more groupers in the Bahamas, but no where near as many as there used to be. Believe it or not, in the 1950's, Florida was far, far better than the Bahamas are today. Rough guess, in relatively accessable areas, Bahamian grouper abundance is down 90 per cent in the 30+ years I've dove it. Its a little better in places like the Ginger Breads, but still way less than it "used to be" Traps are getting a lot of them in recent years, but spearos, mostly freediving Bahamian comercial divers, did most of the damage, at least into the 1990's.
Connor
You are right, many more groupers in the Bahamas, but no where near as many as there used to be. Believe it or not, in the 1950's, Florida was far, far better than the Bahamas are today. Rough guess, in relatively accessable areas, Bahamian grouper abundance is down 90 per cent in the 30+ years I've dove it. Its a little better in places like the Ginger Breads, but still way less than it "used to be" Traps are getting a lot of them in recent years, but spearos, mostly freediving Bahamian comercial divers, did most of the damage, at least into the 1990's.
Connor
Alot of those fish also simply move. They move to areas of less pressure, better food, water quality, ect. There are certainly alot less fish but considering the amount of people chasing them around, I think we do a pretty decent job with them.
As for the Gulf...if you dont like 50 mile runs, this is your time of year. Just a cvouple miles...20-40ft and LOADS of nice gags.
As for the Gulf...if you dont like 50 mile runs, this is your time of year. Just a cvouple miles...20-40ft and LOADS of nice gags.
Frogman you have a point there... Must agree with you on that.. I sometimes have a 4 hour dive and just can not find the right fish that I am targeting that day... But if you have been to greece, I think you can understand that the freediving spearos are not to found of the scuba spearos (I mean in the med..) Rigdvr when I listen to your stories I want to live where you live... Clear water huge fish
!!!ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT SPEARFISHING LAW AROUND THE WORLD!!!
If you are IN the water, and you have a scuba tank/BSR? on (how is this f****** blowing up west called?Man sorry, i did the open water cource 4 years ago(exactly 31.XII.2002)!!!and of cause by PADI :duh , they made me forget so i come again!lol!)
OK.... so if "they" see a scuba tank on your back,you are in the water and a speargun in your hand....your in deep shit.....
you can think about it like this: its nearly the same as throwing TNT or C4 in the water to get fish.....TOTALY the same....so this action will be treted seriously and then you may end up in prison!
The only country you can do such things is --------------------- rofl Russia rofl !!! and to hunt with a scuba tank there you ONLY&ONLY need one thing: $ :t
Nice huntin' every one.
If you are IN the water, and you have a scuba tank/BSR? on (how is this f****** blowing up west called?Man sorry, i did the open water cource 4 years ago(exactly 31.XII.2002)!!!and of cause by PADI :duh , they made me forget so i come again!lol!)
OK.... so if "they" see a scuba tank on your back,you are in the water and a speargun in your hand....your in deep shit.....
you can think about it like this: its nearly the same as throwing TNT or C4 in the water to get fish.....TOTALY the same....so this action will be treted seriously and then you may end up in prison!
The only country you can do such things is --------------------- rofl Russia rofl !!! and to hunt with a scuba tank there you ONLY&ONLY need one thing: $ :t
Nice huntin' every one.
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"f****** blowing up west called?" LOL -
Great thread - just posting so I'll get notifications.
Spearfishing here is incredibly restricted and has been as long as I can remember. Seems to be some kind of anglers lobby/superstition. Freediving spearfishing is more restricted than bow or spear - only four species all but one of which are inedible.
Great thread - just posting so I'll get notifications.
Spearfishing here is incredibly restricted and has been as long as I can remember. Seems to be some kind of anglers lobby/superstition. Freediving spearfishing is more restricted than bow or spear - only four species all but one of which are inedible.
alexanderXP said:
Not true...you can do it in the U.S., parts of Australia, certain Carribean counties, ect. Why post some blabber junk up on such an old thread...anybody else want to break the newbie in? :duh Please post something worth reading instead of this untrue, nonsense.
Right, Rig. I don't know where Alexander gets his info but it's bad. Whether or not folks agree with the practice, spearfishing with scuba is legal in California and large parts of the East and Gulf Coasts. I'm not sure about Oregon and Washington since I haven't been there to dive, yet . . . and might not, given the water temp. So let's let this thread die a quiet death and get on with some discussions that might have some useful information.
So let's let this thread die a quiet death and get on with some discussions that might have some useful information.
If there ever was one to be locked its this one! This subject has been beaten to death over the years but it seems like every 6 months or so some new guy discovers it and it fires right back up. A search on the subject would reveal so many threads worth of info for both sides that there really is nothing new to say.
Pardon. sorry mates....
I understand that the word "WORLD" was a bit too much.X(
BUT still, its NOT legal in :duh MOST :duh countries,ok?!
And i forgot to say...... its legal in Iraq too.... becuase no one cares!
I understand that the word "WORLD" was a bit too much.X(
BUT still, its NOT legal in :duh MOST :duh countries,ok?!
And i forgot to say...... its legal in Iraq too.... becuase no one cares!
Hey Everybody!
The idea of closing this thread has been under discussion by the Mentors and it's been decided that there's not too much that can be said.
This thread is now only available for reading. If you have a similar topic, please read through this one to see if your thoughts have already been beaten to death.
If not, please feel free to submit your thoughts, opinions and concerns in a new thread and as with all threads, please do so in a manner respectful of others.
Much thanks.
The idea of closing this thread has been under discussion by the Mentors and it's been decided that there's not too much that can be said.
This thread is now only available for reading. If you have a similar topic, please read through this one to see if your thoughts have already been beaten to death.
If not, please feel free to submit your thoughts, opinions and concerns in a new thread and as with all threads, please do so in a manner respectful of others.
Much thanks.
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