Spearfishing on scuba

[Ntrik]

Nmoiras your views on spearfishing and expertise as an environmentalist are more than welcome (am I alone in saying this?). What doesnt sit well are general statements or remarks condemning another persons hobby/country.

Become the silent poster............. leave suds, bubbles and hammocks for the greeks who only care about the back-door way.
:wave

Enough with the stereotypes already.

Your words suggest that you really think that spearos do greater damage to the resourse than pollution or overfishing by other types of gear. That runs contrary to the opinion of every fishery biologist I know. From where does your opinion come??

Im no biologist but im positive spearfishing is potentially more devastating to some fish targeted than other fishing practices. The example in my mind is that of groupers on the coastline to depths ill conservatively place at 30ft. Groupers are bottom dwelling local fish. They might live in the same cave for years. If there are 10 groupers residing on a reef or dropoff or wreck I can with my speargun in 5-6 sessions and within the bag-limit wipe them all out. No other legal or illegal fishing technique can do this so effectively. Not even dynamite. Overally a small statistic but quite significant for the next person that will be aimlessly swimming over the dropoff looking for a grouper.

 

[rigdvr]

Where in the world did you get this information? Even residential grouper move territory quite often. They dont live in the same hole for years. Hell, they even travel very large distances every year to mate in giant spawning aggregations(hundreds of thousands of them in one spot), it is an unbelievable site.

If you want to be informed about grouper decimation, check into the statistics for bottom longlines in aggregation areas. When you are done whith that look up the destruction from bottom trawling gear.

That has to be the most ludicrous thing I have ever read. We can tell you are no biologist...

Seriously, no offense but please, please do a little research on the life of grouper and the effects of various fishing methods before posting crap like that. Its the type of lies that PETA and others would love to spew. The info really isnt that hard to find.

 

[rigdvr]

Just to prove my point we have a vigorous artificial reaf program here in the Gulf of Mexico. Basically we dump old barges, rubble, planes, ect in order to create habitat on an otherwise featureless, silty bottom(thanks to the mighty Mississippi River). When the fisheries managers make a new reef they track the progress of it. Within DAYS the structure is inhabited by baitfish and juvenile snapper, grouper, ect, ect. Within weeks there is usually significant amounts of fish activity both juvenile and adult. As water temperature changes the fish move. As bait changes location, the fish move. One day a section of reef can be full of life, the next devoid of anything. The secret to this is in an anatomical structure known as the TAIL...the caudal tail to be specific This unique apendage allows fish to facilitate locomotion in order to find optimum comfort, structure, and food sources.

Do they even have grouper where you hunt?

 

[rigdvr]

maybe it would have been more eco friendly to use dynomite... rofl

 

[roy_nexus_6]

......Its the type of lies that PETA and others would love to spew. The info really isnt that hard to find.

Why not? After all the cretins at PETA morally equated eating chicken meat to what NAZIS did to jews in the concentration camps. :duh

The radical idiots really are the same, be it radical environmentalists, radical lefwingers or radical rightwingers. It's us in the middle who have to suffer the drivel they spew everywhere they appear. Even on deeperblue.com they have to throw some fecies against the wall hoping some would stick.

 

[rigdvr]

my favorite PETA saying tells that fishing is wrong and to prove it they show how Jesus took fisherman and put their nets aside to make them "fishers of men." They forgot that when the fisherman werent catching anything that Jesus told them to cast the nets on the otherside of the boat where they put the smack down on a boat full of the little finned fiends rofl Only PETA can tell half a story so well!

 

[Amphibious]

PETA is evil. they are resposible for so many hate crimes in this part of the country it's not even funny. they routinely sabatage hunting vehicles and boats while the hunters are in the bush. has nearly killed quite a few people over the rears. they are a growing problem in BC (welcome to the land of draft dodgers and hippies). they have actively protested the bear hunt here, some even run out and chase the bears away from would be hunters. we had 2 of them attacked and killed when they pulled this stunt last year. Running up to a 4oolb black bear yelling and screeming isn;t the best idea Darwin was right (as a note: BC has 25% of the worlds black bears, about 160,000! they are a carfully watched and strictly regulated resource)

so far no issues with them and spearfishing, but that's not a surprise as there are so few of us here....

People Eating Tasty Animals

 

[Huan]

What the European fisheries bodies need to do is grow some balls, and start thinking of the future. The NA Cod fishery has been wiped out,

Not true, this is a political and commercial issue the Marine stewardship council and vested interests have blown this out of proportion, or Perhaps you are talking about the Grand banks?

And then theres the Japanese with their driftnets, after the EU banned Euro countries from using them in the Med...

The EU have implemented a ban on driftnetting for Albacore in the Atlantic however the Japanese that fish the Atlantic never used Driftnets only longline.
What the EU didn't do is make sure that the Med countries didn't go and catch all the juvenile bluefin and ranch them.
Besides Driftnetting for albacore had a very good history regarding bycatch, it was quite unlike the Pacific driftnet fishery where ther was massive bycatch levels.
Again it was a political decision taken by Spain on behalf of the Spanish fishermen who troll for Albacore.

 

[Ntrik]

Where in the world did you get this information?

Spearing in the Mediterranean for 20 years. Our dusky grouper (epinephelus marginatus) is no1 target for most spearfishermen here.

Even residential grouper move territory quite often. They dont live in the same hole for years.

They do here. There is a migration to shallower water every year (around april-may in Greece) of groupers from the deep replenishing already existing population along the coastline. Groupers select their caves according to their size. Typically they frequent the same one over one season. Some stick to the same cave for years and only move out when it gets too small for them.

Hell, they even travel very large distances every year to mate in giant spawning aggregations(hundreds of thousands of them in one spot), it is an unbelievable site.

They do gather some extent here also to spawn. Not anywhere close to the numbers you mention though.

If you want to be informed about grouper decimation, check into the statistics for bottom longlines in aggregation areas. When you are done whith that look up the destruction from bottom trawling gear.

Groupers arent effectively caught by nets or trawlers here. Seems groupers your side have more of an open water character making them more vulnerable. In France spearfishing groupers has been banned for several years (until 2007) in an effort to assist recovery for their dwindling populations. In Greece spearos are only allowed one Grouper of any species per 24hr period while spearfishing is completely banned to commercial fishermen for any species. What do you think the reasoning of the lawmakers was when they sought to protect the mediterranean grouper from the spearfisherman alone? Is it "ludicrous" and "crap"?

That has to be the most ludicrous thing I have ever read. We can tell you are no biologist...

I am no biologist but as aforementioned Ive been hunting these fish for almost two decades. It took me two summers to get my first one. The first I shot him with a five prong and the next I returned with a screw on single barb and finished the job. Same fish same place I could give you countless examples of local groupers spearos are dying to kill for years but without luck due to their caves being inaccessible. Do you know how we hunt groupers here today in the shallows? We burrow in their caves like reptiles flashlight in hand most of the time only getting to see a small part of their tail. Thats the reality in the 0-10m zone you never see them out of their caves. I know newbies that have been looking for years and never found one over 1kg. Why? Natural selection in action: The groupers that had the bad habit of staying out of their caves have been annihilated. Now because a dusky grouper has prosthetic memory and will remember the outline of the spearo as a potential threat, it zooms to the deepest part of its cave as soon as the splashing of a fin is heard on the surface.

Seriously, no offense but please, please do a little research on the life of grouper and the effects of various fishing methods before posting crap like that. Its the type of lies that PETA and others would love to spew. The info really isnt that hard to find.

Whats with the attitude Rigdvr? Wheres your goodwill? If I want to post "crap" I reserve the right to do so. These are my views after hunting the grouper for almost two decades. Dont like them dont read them.

 

[Shadowkiller]

Huan,

According to the New Scientist article I was reading a while back, before NS made subscriptions mandatory to read full articles, the North Atlantic Cod Fishery is either close to commercial extinction, or is already extinct.

The same article also discussed the japanese trawlers inside the med, using driftnets. I will pass a quote if I manage to access the article via my universities subscription.

A good indication of the state of European fisheries is the attempt to access African fisheries, and even Australian waters by various EU countries. Up sh*t creek, no paddle in sight.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg17523510.300

And one from 1992: http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg13518292.700

Interestingly there was a great article, back in 1989, on how great a fishery the Orange Roughy fishery was going to be. :hmm

 

[Huan]

Shadow
I have a lot of respect for the New scientist magazine but sometimes journalistic license is misused.
I am in the fishing industry working for the Irish sea fisheries board as a fisheries Technologist.
I worked before as a fisherman in many countries including your own.
I know that Cod is not extinct either commercially or literally, in the NW Atlantic.
ICES has been using flawed science for the last few years and has successfully pulled the wool over many peoples eyes.
This misinformation has been promoted recklessly by many environmental groups to further their own self interest.
A case in point is the MSC certifying NZ hoki (Macruronus sp.) as a sustainable fishery and a GOOD substitute for endangered cod.
1 year down the track and hoki is in trouble and quotas have been cut is this really a responsible organisation?or merely a way for big companies like Unilever to leverage markets.
The Orange Roughy fishery is another case, It has been said that fishing Deepwater fish such as these with a low fecundity is akin to mining, you can do it but the fishery has to be managed well in order for it to survive.
You said that the european fisheries bodies need to grow balls.
Unfortunately we have got the CFP which is responsible for the most spectacular mismanagement of fisheries you have ever seen.
basically 1 country runs fisheries in europe and that country is Spain.
You cannot and will not ever have a coherent fishery policy when you are trying to control multi-national fleets.
Look at the Australian roughy fishery another disaster.

 

[notis]

Hello people

I am free dive spearo and in the past I did not have problems with scuba spearos. I do not say I like it but I respected the people who do.... But after reading what rigdvr had to say (and also his get along gang of scuba spearos) my opinion is not the same anymore. Rigdvr you say al kinds of things like shooting a freediver if he would dive in frond of you..??? [edited..........]

Sorry if i have offended people whom do not desirve it..
ciao

Folks, I've edited this because Stephan made it very clear that personal attacks are not tolerated - if you have something to say keep your head cool but your heart warm! What you say reflects more on you than on what you are commenting. Adrian

 

[Jay Styron]

:ycard notis, that's a pretty bold post and uncalled for. I think Stephan outlined for everyone -"No personal attacks". I guess I'm one of the freediving/scuba cowboys you're refering to. Also I guess you have no problem with the freedivers that dove in front of the scuba diver and forced him to come up, that started the whole thing?
I could post pics of fish taken on scuba and freediving that I've shot that are probably much bigger than the ones you and your friends shoot. What does that prove?
Rigdvr is a personal friend of mine and I really find your post offensive and adding nothing to the thread except to stir crap. If it was up to me you'd be :ban
Jay

 

[rigdvr]

NTRIK, reports like that meke me sooo happy not to have to hunt in areas like that. Thank goodness we had the foresight to protect our resources a little better.

If thats true, I apologize for giving you attitude. I can not imagine having to deal with conditions like that. It always amazes me how different our 2 sides of the big pond are. My hats off to Med spearos for still having the desire to hunt so hard in such a reality.

 

[rigdvr]

That fish was shot freediving. hows this pic you ...whens the last time you got a 105# wahoo? rofl

I dont scuba hunt anymore(been over 4 years now) and I promise you dont want to start comparing pics...heres just a few to help you sleep better at night. Whos laughing now. rofl

 

[rigdvr]

heres some other freediving shots...guess you skipped all the posts where I said I freedove, but would defend the rights of scuba hunters as well....

AS for shooting the guy...if I WAS a scuba hunter and someone dove in front of me to scare fish, maybe I wouldnt have shot him. I would have at least held his ankle at the bottom until he quite wiggling around.... rofl

Jay, thanks for the support but its obvious this guy only reads half of what I may write.

 

[rigdvr]

2. It is clear that the biggest thing you have is your mouth, just accept the fact that even if you wanted to become a good freedive spearo you would never be any good... Really did not know that scuba spearos are just a bunch of cowboys with a big mouth....
Sorry if i have offended people whom do not desirve it..

Lets see if he cowboys up with an apology rofl Funny how Ive never seen a fish pic from you....nothing personal but you really need to look around a forum before you do something so foolish on your 3rd post....my past freediving pics arent hard to find on here, there are many.

Still waiting, both for my apology and some pics from ny new friend

 

[notis]

I know I have offended rigdvr but saying that you would spear people is probably ok to your eyes...... And Rigdvr did you spear this fish while freediving or scuba???? The reason that the freedive spearos told the scuba spearo to go to the surface is because the hunting with scuba in greece is not allowed by law... I think they did him a favor...... Ok I made a post that was personal but I would never say that I would spear a person because he/she were pointing on the fact that I am doing something that could help me get into jail!

Ok rigdvr with this: sorry for the personal attack. My mistake. And you are right we do not have wahoo in the med...
notis

 

[rigdvr]

Like I said....I shot all those fish freediving. Thanks for the apology and welcome to Deeper Blue. You will find we arent usually this rowdy on here. I cant wait to read what ever adventures you have to share with us. No hard feelings.

 

[Ntrik]

NTRIK, reports like that meke me sooo happy not to have to hunt in areas like that. Thank goodness we had the foresight to protect our resources a little better.

If thats true, I apologize for giving you attitude. I can not imagine having to deal with conditions like that. It always amazes me how different our 2 sides of the big pond are. My hats off to Med spearos for still having the desire to hunt so hard in such a reality.

No worries Rigdvr. I have been reading your posts for over a year now and know where you stand with regard to spearfishing.

Yes its amazing the Med still yields fish after such prolonged abuse from overfishing. Nevertheless the sea is always welcoming and readily gives hunters whatever gifts it has to offer, be it the Mediterranean or the Gulf of Mexico. Respect and moderation is the key.

Safe Dives all Around