Spearfishing World Championship NOW!

[Des B]

OK. The results:- THREE to the Chileans and NIL to the South Africans!

The referee has spoken!

______________________________________
The guys that put a bunch of fish at the bottom before a comp, PLEASE remember to bring them up one-by-one during the comp!

 

[kevind]

Antonio – thank you for your explanations and congratulations to you and your team.

From my limited experience of international CMAS competitions, I believe the use of stringers is not normally allowed at all for competitions from a boat. I presume this is why the rules for the use of stringers is under the swimming competition section. For the Venezuela competition, it was announced at the Captains meeting that we would be allowed to use stringers and their use was clarified at this meeting. Antonio – correct me if I am wrong.

Des – Myself and many other competitors were genuinely sorry that Jaco’s catch was disqualified on day 1, but the explaination has been given and I don’t see how this constant barrage of insults and lack of respect helps him. Don’t forget, if it wasn’t for Antonio’s intervention on day 2 with the head official of the organising federation, a number of us (including Alan Fraser) would not have dived at all that day.

Kevin Daly

 

[Des B]

KEVIND

I am sure the divers/competitors have long gone put the issue and comp behind them and the official results remain.

I have learnt that:
1. There are CMAS Rules/Regulations
2. There are Particular Competition Rules/Regulations
3. There is a Captains Meeting for clarification of Rules/Regulations. (I am not English and thus seem to misunderstand the word "clarification"?)

For the future: I seriously think that CMAS should overhaul their Spearfishing Rules. Specific mention must be made regarding the use or not of stringers (while at it they should also have a better translation - english - made). Perceived or assumption of rules just does fit! Many comments on this forum were something like: "As I always understood the rules....etc" - all assumptions!

I drive my car by rules and regulations
I play games by rules and regulations
Presidents are chosen by rules and regulations
States (most) are governed by rules & regulations
________________________________________________

I heard (read about it on other forums/websites) about the "false" start of competitors on the second day where penalties were imposed. As an outsider I just wonder, as I understand that the boatsmen are actually all judges / commissioners with specific prescribed duties and obligations, how this could have happened? I think Antonio also asked this in one of his postings.

I still think all spearos are crazy

 

[octopus]

I still think all spearos are crazy

Well, that may be true, as you have probably concluded that as a result of proper scientific investigation, done by rules and regulations and not just assumed it.

Now, you have registered on this site only to talk about the specific incident.
You have been destructive rather than constructive (apart from a little bit in your last post).
You kept showing lack of respect to other people and even throwing in occasional insult.
Still, you have been welcome by everyone.

So, crazy...maybe yes...but still with some dignity and self-respect.
Wish you all the best mate.

 

[Des B]

Octopus - Thanks for being so gentlemanly with me. Oh, I like this of the English.
Thanks for pointing out my "rudeness" - I really am sorry but it was born out of frustration to get my point accross!
My point?

.....No rule....No penalty!

I took on to discuss this issue/incident because it was one of MY teams, meaning a South African team! If you want to discuss another of my teams e.g. rugby - well the Boks gave the English a lashing past Saturday. And I am not being rude, just proud!

 

[KWM]

As a post script to this whole debate, which I have followed closely, it would seem that CMAS would quite like to be rid of spearfishing competitions all together. My understanding is that they find being involved in our sport a bit of an embarrassment. There are talks going on regarding the formation of an international sport fishing organisation, (I know one already exists) and my understanding is that CMAS ‘would not object if the sport of spearfishing moved on’ and joined it. Personally I think it would be a very good idea.


We can only wait and see.

Oh and I forgot this bit, Des B what is this that I hear that Suid-Afrika have asked to host the world championship in 2012?


Regards Kev ( M)

 

[Des B]

Kev

South Africa do what??? You're kidding!
Dream on .......


______________________________________________
If there is to be any new organisation controlling spearfishing & it's related activities, they will have to take into consideration to include many more countries (federations) AND make it easier and possible for them to take part in World and other championships! The continent of Africa and the whole Eastern Asia seems to be mostly absent? Can the CMAS events really be considered the "Beijing event" of spearfishing?

 

[ALPacheco]

Hello KevinD: (Were you the Kevin that has been at Rota 2007?)

You said:

"From my limited experience of international CMAS competitions, I believe the use of stringers is not normally allowed at all for competitions from a boat. I presume this is why the rules for the use of stringers is under the swimming competition section. For the Venezuela competition, it was announced at the Captains meeting that we would be allowed to use stringers and their use was clarified at this meeting. Antonio – correct me if I am wrong."

Well I am not english also, but I understand that "strings" are what we also call
"accroche-poisson" or something to keep the fish in the water, in a buoy or on the
belt... is that correct?
Let's try to be straith:
1- It is allowded to have a string in a CMAS competition. BUT:
2- Stringers ONLY can be used in the BUOY, in the CMAS competitions.
3- No other place to keep the fish is allowded, but the buoy. Of course, you can ask
about putting the fish in the rope of the buoy... and that's something that must be clarified in the techical meeting! Is it considered buoy? I think so... but... there might be different opinions... just to give an example.
3- The particular rules for the competition, can allow or not, to use strings (only in the buoy) or it can be decided in the technical meeting with captains. For instance, in
Euro-African Champioship Lagos 2003 (Portugal) it was decided that fish, once captured has to go to the boat! It depends on the circunstances... that time it was considered that would be helpfull to make control of species, because it was the first time there were quotas (a number of fish of each kind).
4- The technical meeting with the captains is very important! As you can understand
all the doubts and questions must be clarified there. If there is any doubt... the captain should not make his own interpretation, but ask about it. There are other captains, the comissionar, the jury and the organization to decide... it is possible to vote for a decision! Of course never can be aproved nothing against CMAS regulations, but there is the possibility to clarify or "reading" and giving an interpretation.

I think this is quite clear, but people need information (as you are doing) and the best
is asking and trying to understand before starting to fight against!

I do understand the frustration of the SA... I still compete (in Portugal) after 34 years... (I will never be like Peter Crawford however) and I knew several times that flavour...
- Once, in a very rough day, I took 3 fishes and I should win that day... but when coming ashore I got a broken finn! There was a boat in the water for safety, and I asked for a finn so I could come out in good conditios (there were strong waves)...
Then there were some doubts about my behaviour... some guys telling it was not fair, that I had got help... the jury said they will need to study regulations in order to decide it has been help or safety reasons, but I imediatly told them I was out that day... at the end I became in a lower position of course, but what is important, is that my name is still respected... that's my goal!

Best regards Kevin.

 

[kevind]

Hi Antonio – thank you for your reply. Yes I was at Rota and Venezuela. (you may remember we were taking photos of the sunset on the same hill above the hotel after this competition) My team mate who most remember from Rota was Lee Deighton.

 

[ALPacheco]

Helo DesB:

I hope we can talk in this other subject, as people, with elevation...
:naughty

You said:

"The continent of Africa and the whole Eastern Asia seems to be mostly absent?"
It seems I know Africa better than you do...

In what African countries are there Federations of spearfishing?????
Argelia, Tunisia... eventually Morroco... and SA! I d'ont speak of spearfishing, but Federations and competition...
The same to Asian countries... only exists dive as a tourism and economics activity... not the sport of sperfishingm however Japan is trying
to be in competitions... only!

Can the CMAS events really be considered the "Beijing event" of spearfishing?
That's for sure! Do you know how many countries there are to compete?
Note that CMAS reduced the number because the freigths of a championship...

About SA and the World championship 2012... I can not tell yet, but you will be surprised again... rofl
Information... it is important to have...

 

[Des B]

Hi Antonio

I am glad to hear about the interest in spearfishing from other African countries. However, I am afraid the 2010 Worlds will not have an African representative. Just a gut feeling and we will see how things do play out!

I do not know what the status quo is of Asia, but looking at the competitor nations during the 2008 championships, a representative from there seems equally unlikely.

Reading Australian forums make me also pessimistic after Venezuela. But time will tell!

Antonio, of course you are in a better position regarding information re spearfishing championships - where they are to be held etc - but I am afraid and sorry to predict that it will not happen in South Africa. Just another calculated guess!

If there are developments, I would like to book my seat early!

Still friendly! :t

 

[spadefish]

Just a quick point,

SA has proposed to host worlds in 2012. It is still very early in the process so where it would be held is a question (there are about 2000km of suitable coastline). There are also issues regarding MCM regulations, but one thing that is guarenteed is that the rules and regulations will be Complete!!!!! A comp in SA would require that fish are put onto the boat or someone will be bitten! If you follow this rule it is safe to dive in SA (I have been diving for 25 years and still have both arms and both legs)!

By the way, why are minutes of the Captains' meetings not taken and circulated?

Cioa

 

[ALPacheco]

Des B - I do spearfish in Africa... and believe I have enough information, and I am not against anybody - specially SA or Jaco, that I belive will be a great champion! And I
wish to see it.
In 2010 we d'ont know who is going to participate... but I am sure that if SA will be in the Euro-African, they will be there... tath's sport and competition... win and loose and being able to get up and fight back... tath's le lesson of sport.
And maybe we will meet in 2012... just wait and see...

Spade:
- Good point! BUT:
When you are in a meeting where there are at last 3 different languages... is hard to have that minute!!! God help me... I had quite a trouble to translate everybody what was going on in spanish, french and english, all at same time! I understand italian but I d'ont speak...
But something should be considered you are right, and I have put in my repport:
It should be considered the organization to have an interpreter/translater, a professional one... the idea of the minute, must be considered.
Yes good point!

 

[spadefish]

Hi Pacheco,

I can assure you that there will be a SA team in Algeria (with a bit of good fortune I will be there). I think that you have made a lot of good point regarding out lack of experience in these competitions as we have really only been competing since 1995 - this is not a long time.

I know Jacu well and I can assure you that there was no intention of contravention of the rules. He thought that there was a gap in the rules which he thought he could exploit (similar to stories I hear of divers using fish oils on their wet suits to attract fish). There might have been a breakdown in communication within the team which led to the outcome - I was not there. It is just unfortunate that he would have placed so high that's all. In this site, a lot of additional information has come to light what does give a clearer insight into what happened.

By the way has anyone any idea when the Euro-Africa Campionships will be held. In SA (since we are the only team from the southern hemispere) everything is the opposite to Europe so we need to plan our team selection trials to co-incide with the period of the year the competition will be held.

Thanks

 

[ALPacheco]

Hello Spadefish

- By your message I believe you are a real sportsman! In the best SA tradicion.
I stand that Jaco will be someone we will see in the future... as a champion!
I understand that you have read my post, you thinked about and you understood.
Thank you for your work and good will.
You know it is not easy... I have been (and still am) a spearfisherman since 1968,
and I started on competition in 1974. I have been writing in papers and magazines
since 1988... about spearfishing, and I was one of the founders of Mundo Submerso
a portuguese magazine 11 years old now. In 2000 I became Vice-President of the Portuguese Federation, re-elected in 2004 and 2008. In 2005 I was elected to the
Spearfishing Comission of CMAS. All my life has been dedicated to spearfishing...
and now as a major responsable. Someone must take that responsability and I hope
there will be other after me... that's the natural order.
It is not easy to take some decisions, believe me!
But someone has to do it! Like when hunting... I do not like killing, but I have to do it, then I do... but in a proper way and with the respect it takes.
Do you understand? It is our condition, not of killers, but hunters... and a lesson to our lives... we must do what we have to do!
I didn't want to desqulify Jaco... nor the rest of the jury. We understand him... but we also understand there are other things that we must protect!
I hope you can understand this point quite well!
Jaco thougt he has seen a "hole" in the regulation, and tried to take that advantage... but he forgot something: the etics and the reasons why it is not acceptable to do what he did... because other fishermen respected the rule of:
Buoy/boat only!
Ask him if the portuguese André Domingues (winner in the 2 day) he has been spearfishing with, in another cave, was not putting all the fish in buoy or
boat (in order to other not seeing it)...
That's the point! Andre got a real bad experience in 2003 when he loose his 2th
place in the Euro-African! But there he is! With a lot more of experience and knowllege... Jaco must watch and learn! He is quite young... and have all the time.
I feel sorry for Jaco, but I am not sorry for my decision... as I am not sorry for all the animals I killed during my standing has a hunter, but If it would be possible to bring it back to live... I would do it!
About the Euro-African 2009, it will be in September/October.
I wish to meet you there!

Best regards António Luiz Pacheco

 

[spadefish]

Hi Antionio,

Thank you for the kind words.

I appreciate the difficulty is making unpopular decisions - I have to make them often in my work environment. It is often more difficult standing by them.

I have tried to convince Jacu to dive in upcoming competitions but he does feel hurt. I hope the feelings pass as I do believe that he has the potential to place very highly in the international arena.

It is very difficult for the SA team to get to the international competitions as we get no financial support from the government, so all monies are raised via sponsorships and personal savings. This is not an easy task when our currency is far weaker than the euro - but this is life. We love the sport and those who can, relish the opportunity to dive internationally.

If I make the team for Algeria, I will certainly come and introduce myself!

Regards

Angelo

 

[eric aqua]

A good debate by one and all on a lighter note fish oil on your suit in South Africa !! Is that called a Great White Sandwich ?

 

[spadefish]

Hi

More like a great white spring roll.

I know in SA some divers (no names mentioned) who attach a rag with anchovy oil to the bottom of their marker bouy (not your body!!!!!!). After a few minutes, if you dive down to where the marker buoy weight is located there is always a bunch of fish (and sharks in some areas!).

I personally do not do it but I know it works well to get big musselcrackers to come in (similar to the use of burly - just scent involved).

I dont know if this is covered in competition rules as it is not using bait. Again grey areas! The problem is how to police it - some divers do not wash their dive gear and I assure you that there is quite a 'ripe fishy' smell around them. I am sure that this is not as offputting to fish as wonderfully aromatic lavender scented shampoo:t

Hope you all have a great weekend - the sea in N.Natal looks good - yipeeee

 

[Spaniard]

Hi Antionio,

Thank you for the kind words.

I appreciate the difficulty is making unpopular decisions - I have to make them often in my work environment. It is often more difficult standing by them.

I have tried to convince Jacu to dive in upcoming competitions but he does feel hurt. I hope the feelings pass as I do believe that he has the potential to place very highly in the international arena.

It is very difficult for the SA team to get to the international competitions as we get no financial support from the government, so all monies are raised via sponsorships and personal savings. This is not an easy task when our currency is far weaker than the euro - but this is life. We love the sport and those who can, relish the opportunity to dive internationally.

If I make the team for Algeria, I will certainly come and introduce myself!

Regards

Angelo

It is a credit to all those teams who struggle to get to such far-flung places for international comps. with very litle resource other than a determination to get there at all costs! The Spanish, Italian and French teams have normally enjoyed sponsorship from either a sports body, dive manufacturer or other...

I have enjoyed reading about team GB's exploits over many years in international comps in the following places;

British Spearfishing Association - index

David Way's "The Spearfishermans Handbook"

and Eric Aqua's excellent book;

No Sharks Today by eric smith (Book) in Sports & Adventure

Team GB nearly always gets to Euro and World comps with little or no financial aid!

 

[Corry]

Hi,

Just to add a bit of clarification about the 2012 champs in South Africa. SA Spearfishing has recently alligned itself with the fishing fraternity as the laws (in SA) that govern spearfishing are the same with regard to closed seasons, bag limits, etc. As there are way more fisherman than spearos we feel it prudent to allign ourselves with bodies who in essence have the same interests as us.
World fishing bosies are looking at hosting an "Olympic Games" of fishing and this will incorporate all aspects of fresh and saltwater fishing from bass fishing, flyfishing to deeps sea game fishing. Obviously if we are alligned with fishing this will hopefully translate to spearfishing too.
As it is still early days (not that 4 years preparation time leaves us with much time) there are still lots of arrangements to be made before we can even think of hosting but this is the reason we have sent out notifications to see if there is interest in holding World spearfishing champs in SA in 2012