Stormy days at AIDA?

[cebaztian]

I was sent this privatly

I was hoping you could make a good media/public relations officer for AIDA, but after reading all your negative writing about AIDA at deeper blue, I know with certainty that this is not so. To wash dirty underwear in public places is a major sign of a bad taste. Smart people do so in a place where it hurt least and benefit most instead of the opposite.

I am not happy with the situation, the situation of discussion things in public that should not even have to be discussed. It takes energy from more important things.

But many people are confused about what is happening, they have no insight.
Many people avoid talking about the problems. It is not nice to talk about problems of this nature. But lack of discussion does not benefit the organization, this lack of information does not benefit the organization. When talking about the organization I mean the body of athletes, of freedivers with Aida membership.

The most common stance over the years have been a Board that behaves like the vatican: no comments. The assembly have been much asleep. This is not healthy.

There are so many things happening in the shadows in Aida and this does not benefit democracy. Its not a normal situation, Aida has been on the brink of being non-functional, even being split.

When people like BS that actually has been removed from office continues to try to act like "business as usuall" and try to continue setting the agenda - I feel I have to speak out, as a member of Aida. And he is now adapting to the role of victim.

I have many years talked warmly for a more open transparent Aida that does not shy away from public discussion, and admitting faults. And I have put forth the question of a media/PR dedicated person on the board.

I have played with the idea of applying for this position.
But this idea clashes violantly with the role I have choosen the last years: trying to analyze and critize Aida out of a journalistic approach. Without an active free press democrazy usually slowly dies. Even in a small culture as in a freedive community.

It might be politicly suicide, but I care more about the health of Aida than my standing in a political arena. Since this is not about me, I can live with this sacrifice.

This choice of being critical and speaking up, may mean I might not be electable, but that is a price I have to pay. There are others that will step forward in shiny white (untarnished) armor, that are not willing to voice their opinion publicly.

I am not 100% sure, but I feel I have a positive impact on the organization of which I am a member.

Washing laundry in public is not a good idea om a private level, but for a public organization it might sometimes be the only way. I am not saying I am trying to do that. I just feel the Aida freedivers hanging out on deeperblue needs to hear the basics of what is going on (also from people like BS), so that they can be more active in the shaping of competetive freediving.

There are lots of shiny white laundry in Aida, that we can fly as flags, but that can be discussed elsewhere.


Sebastian

PS. You may also note that I did not start this thread, and entered it at a later point. You should also note that this thread has had 2500 viewings, that is more than all individual members of Aida. This is exactly the right place to discuss issues regarding the biggest and only governing body of freediving competitions and records. I have a degree in "media and communication science" and actually (more or less) know the effects of what I am doing. It might not benefit me, but things happen in other parts of this dynamic system. A+B does not necessarily make AB ;-)

 

[pim]

AMEN.....:thankyou

ps, I think this is NOT the place (that is why I hardly post here on AIDA-related things) but as the AIDA-forum is been attacked by those porn-spammers (even pm'ing me) guess we do not have an other discussion place for the moment.

 

[jome]

Sebastian, please keep doing what you're doing (and Jorg too).

I'll admit even I'm sometimes annoyed by some of the things you bring up and I'm not even the target, but for that exact reason we need a "second opinion", as long as things keep constructive.

A couple of general ideas in the name of transparency.

-Should the assembly list be readable by anyone? I guess it would kind of make sense. In many cases people that are not part of the list but have interest in it are simply not getting the information because the national delegate (cough), is too lazy or too busy to forward it to the national members. Anyway, anything that is discussed in the assembly should stand the light of day?

-When the new board is elected, who will be the candidates? Don't be shy! Throw in names. At least I'm very interested in that. Or will it be only 1 candidate per position that is exactly the same as the dissolved boards vacancy? We speak a lot about dissolving, removing, quitting - so who's ready to step in?

Is this rumor about Jonas quitting the web-admin totally, true? If so, first of all that sucks, and second could we perhaps get someone else admin access to fix the immediate problems in the AIDA forum (porn).

Regarding the ranking - if we'd have 3-4 volunteers with some extra time and basic computing skills, we could bring the 2009 situation up to date in one weekend in the current system. Then, at least the data would be in even if the ranking engine it self will change to for example FC (which would be totally awesome). Much simpler to import from sql than to type everything in manually.

 

[Billextreme]

Hi,

The porn-spamming in the AIDA forum is fixed by Jonas since one weeks back. We will not have this anymore - as long the spammers don't find a new way to go around the admin.

Jonas have just got a real job that actually pays not only food on the table but also an entire household with everything incl. This job is between 12 and 13 hours a day and this has resulted that time for the ranking have been bad. He told me that he would like to step back, but I told him to stay and help his replacement to get in order before leaving totaly and he said he will do his best. I have asked Chris E to help puting in the ranking results in a future ranking data base and he said he is ready to help with that. Now we also have an offer for the new board to think about when it comes to the ranking - but for the moment our fucus should be to make sure the AIDA WC in Bahamas will be super and to select a new board asap. The ranking data base have been a tricky thing to solve tho we have a long list of improvements that have to be done - but hopefully the freedive central guys are up to a challenge.

have a nice day

/B

 

[trux]

I was hoping you could make a good media/public relations officer for AIDA, but after reading all your negative writing about AIDA at deeper blue, I know with certainty that this is not so. To wash dirty underwear in public places is a major sign of a bad taste. Smart people do so in a place where it hurt least and benefit most instead of the opposite.

Frankly told, I am rather glad this person refuses the help, because his or her stand is exactly the opposite of what I expect from a PR person at AIDA. I offered my help to AIDA on numerous occasions, both publicly, and privately. However, I will help only under one condition - all actions of the AIDA Board (and other official units) will be absolutely transparent. It means that there will be a PR/media person who will be responsible for communicating the actions of the Board, Assembly, and the different commissions to the public. And I do not mean only their decisions and the results, but I mean that we will be informed also about mistakes, errors, disputes, problems, that we will be confronted with individual issues before the officials start the decision process, so that we can influence those decisions, or offer our help in resolving some problems. My condition is also that individual officials will be free to discuss any AIDA related topics openly on the public, and that they will be encouraged or even forced to post the log of their work on the AIDA website.

So if we have a person in the PR position, who wants to publish only filtered and perfumed information from the board, and calls the open discussion "washing of dirty underwear", then it is definitely someone I do not want to work with. I want a healthy, and open organization, not a secretive and authoritative agency. AIDA is an association of volunteers, not the CIA, and not a commercial company that would need to fear that enemies would learn about its weak spots, so there is absolutely no place for secrecy here.

I want that everything is perfectly transparent and open - I want that members are being informed about everything without having to ask. I want that the accounting data are being published without having to request them. I want that polls are being created where all members can cast their vote about many different issues before the Board, the Assembly, or a commission take their final decision about them, where the officials will try taking the results into the account, of course too. I want that IT projects become Open Source, with anyone being able to help without having to apply for a position. And I want that many more volunteers are involved in the work at AIDA - so for example there could be a dozen of forum moderators, just like there are here on DB, and that they take care of it properly - installing anti-spam measures, banning abusers, approving new members, and moderating discussions. I want that there is a similarly big group of people with access rights to the website, where any of them can make necessary modifications. Having just a single volunteer doing it is crazy, and necessarily quickly leads to his big frustration.

 

[cebaztian]

So lets instead talk about more constructive things.
There will be new statutes in Aida.

But look at this part of the old ones:

10. ASSEMBLY OF DELEGATES
The Assembly of Delegates is the paramount authority of the association. It is composed of representatives of each active member (1 national representative having the right to vote per country).

It has jurisdictions conceded by law and the present statutes, notable:
· Election of the Executive Board
· Election of Auditors
· Approval of various activity reports
· Approval and release of annual and auditors reports
· Approval and release of the management of the directing bodies
· Establishment of membership fees for the following year
· Votation of the budget
· Nomination of Honorary Members
· Modification of the statutes
· Decisions of all submitted questions
· Decision of the dissolution of AIDA International

End qoute.

This is a lot of power. But most of these things have not been working properly. Assembly have been somewhat idle and power has moved to a few people holding on to the initiative. All this "approval and release" things is the basis for transparancy and accountability. In the new statutes this will most likely be more detailed (I say this since I know there will be a vote about this).

Vote will concern:
- The possibility for a blank vote. To show that you as member take part in the democratic process, but find no good alternatives to vote for.
- Guaranteeing free debate.
- The idea of a election committe that can solve problems as finding auditors or interim situations like the one Aida is in now.
- If boardmembers (the government) should have the right to vote in the assembly (the parliament).
- How votes are done in the EC.
- If board members can head commissions.

I actually believe that with new statutes, a slightly more active assembly that holds the board accountable, and more transparancy it could become fun and creative to work within Aida.

As for transparancy.
An open assembly? Anyone can walk into the swedish parliament and listen in. BUT I think one must ask oneself: What is good out of principle? Or what is more practicly suitable for the situation right now.
There should be different levels of insight for the public. The members always have right to more insigth. But there are certain things one may want to keep within the organization - like EC discussions and most Assembly discussions.

There is of course a point in focusing on what is working and what is good. Aida has lots of things to be proud of from its 15 year history. I think it is important to understand what exactly the resources of Aida conists of:

- The loyalty of the freedivers to the idea of Aida.
- The rules.
- The education system.
- The educated judges.
- The instructors.
- The statutes and the working procedures (statutes).
- Money.


Sebastian

 

[trux]

As for transparancy.
An open assembly? Anyone can walk into the swedish parliament and listen in. BUT I think one must ask oneself: What is good out of principle? Or what is more practicly suitable for the situation right now.
There should be different levels of insight for the public. The members always have right to more insigth. But there are certain things one may want to keep within the organization - like EC discussions and most Assembly discussions.

Why? I see no reason for it. They do not discuss the construction of nuclear weapons. Their discuss problems of members of a non-profit sport association, and take decisions over the people who chose them to do it. They should be obliged letting everyone listening with absolutely no expceptions allowed. Their discussion must be open, transparent, and controllable. And it should be very well anchored in the statutes, so that they cannot purposely avoid it.

 

[pim]

personaly I think writing 3 of 6 monthly reports is a lot better than opening all forums for everybody to read; before you know it all board members are doing is answering mails from AIDA-members and/or none AIDA-members.....as Board-members you now already have to deal with >50 mails a day.

Grtzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Pim

 

[jome]

Personally I think the board should/could have a private channel too, but perhaps the assembly could be open to all (to read, but to write only the delegates)...

Glad to hear the reasons for Jonas' absence are such positive ones! Good luck.

Bill can you share any more details about fc's plan? Or Francois maybe? Sounds promising...

 

[trux]

personaly I think writing 3 of 6 monthly reports is a lot better than opening all forums for everybody to read; before you know it all board members are doing is answering mails from AIDA-members and/or none AIDA-members.....as Board-members you now already have to deal with >50 mails a day.

And that's exactly why it should be discussed openly. If the topic is debated publicly on a forum, the load of private email will rapidly drop, because there will be no need for discussing it behind closed doors. And to those who will continue to annoy you privately, you will simply send back a standard reply to pose their questions or proposals on the forum.

I see absolutely no need for closed channels anywhere on any level of an association of volunteers like AIDA is. We do not fight any enemies who we need to hide our thoughts from. If someone of the officials wants to hide something, there must be something wrong. There should be no need for it.

 

[rxcnc2]

It's good to have info about "stormy days" and general info (ranking officer leaving, new contract with FC), but IMHO things which are closely related to the heart of the AIDA decisions including accusations of non-democratic behaviour or questions about use of funds are better discussed in a restricted AIDA forum. Assuming that the forum is up and running as Bill says.

 

[Aber]

I totally agree with the claims that AIDA should be an open and transparent organization. And I hope that commited people like Trux and Sebastian with their love of freediving will be able to use their commitment for the benefit of AIDA and the freediving community. Keep it up, guys. I think there are many out there who are grateful for what you are doing to get AIDA back on track.
:wave Erlend

 

[trux]

It's good to have info about "stormy days" and general info (ranking officer leaving, new contract with FC), but IMHO things which are closely related to the heart of the AIDA decisions including accusations of non-democratic behaviour or questions about use of funds are better discussed in a restricted AIDA forum. Assuming that the forum is up and running as Bill says.

I have nothing against using the AIDA forum for this discussion, or any other one related to freediving. In fact when the AIDA forum was created, I hoped competitive freedivers would be much more active there, limiting so the number of unrelated topics that we need to go through on other forums. However, posting a message there is currently useless, because the handful of members who were occasionally visiting the forum, abandoned it in the last days.

So before we manage to revive it again, I see absolutely no problem in discussing even sensitive questions on any other public platform. Anyway only people interested in AIDA come here to read it, and they are many more of them here on DB, than anywhere else (AIDA's forum included).

Or do you think that if couple of non-AIDA freedivers, spearfishers, scuba divers, or accidental visitors learn about problems at AIDA, that it will harm the organization, or the sport? Are you afraid that CMAS will use the information and take over AIDA? That terrorists will see where the weak point is, and will attack us? It is all nonsense, of course. By being open about your problems, you just show your force, and everyone would appreciate you more even with your defects, than if you are trying to hide or masquerade them. We are finally a bunch of volunteers, and do our best for free, but are just humans, and make mistakes and stupidities. If someone does not like it, I am all for it that he takes over the control and manages it better. We have nothing to lose, so why trying to hide something?

 

[pehtran]

I think those who opose the idea that the discusions should be open are just concerned that the vast number of different opinions will paralyse the organisation. I do not think anybody sane at this point is affraid of the info leaking out.... What is there to leak? It can only be better from here, and I think that the general feeling is: it will be better.
Miha

 

[samdive]

Be a bit careful criticising AIDA on public forums - it got me into some trouble in the past! Just a warning to you all....

 

[Kars]

I agree with the total transparency concept. Maybe not total for non-members, but certainly total for AIDA-members.

Mitigating the problem of similar questions being asked to the assembly members would be the forum. (Q&A - search function)

Too many people voicing their opinions on the forum?
Well I think with most daily decisions the 'turn-out' won't be overwhelming, but rather low or nothing at all.
When it's a hot topic there will be many ideas, propositions, opinions, posts. The trick with this is some good smart people who detect the trends, summarise and compile the people's thoughts into a handy list. This list can be put into an on-line poll, and thus the assembly has got a good idea how 'we the people' think and feel about the issue at hand.
In order to preserve a dense high quality discussion, without much repetition and reiterations, the discussion could be limited to a time-frame.

The procedure could look like:
From the assembly the coming discussion point and question is posted on the forum, 4 weeks before voting. The PR person posts, relays, the proposals by the assembly members, but on the forum AIDA members also can put forward proposals. After the discussion about the different pro and cons a list op options is created, and the assembly votes. When the topic / vote at hand is very hot AIDA can consider having a on-line referendum on the forum.

Personally I'm pretty confident that the AIDA members can be rational strong allies helping the assembly to take the best decision. I'm pretty sure a civil constructive healthy forum culture such as we have here on this beautiful Deeperblue forum, can also take place on the AIDA forum. With some dismay I sometime feel some air of contempt for the 'general public' among those elected, I think this not how it should be. When the student fails it's usually because the teacher failed first.

The non-white laundry.
Only the dumb revengeful or masochist likes to hang it out, with the important exception of when people feel the polite, normal channels are no longer viable. Than the only way remaining is to start a public discussion and have the dirt surface and cleared. I think it's better for an organisation not to accumulate too many mistakes. Fearful of the members it will become secretive, corrupt and later on will see itself fall apart. Confession is good for the soul. Mistakes are not bad, but not correcting them in a timely fashion is.

I'm confident that with transparency and the open discussion forum that people will have more insight, understanding and respect for the AIDA assembly and board.

Thanks for everyone's very thoughtful constructive posts, I'm learning much here!

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

 

[cebaztian]

The best thing with crisis is that you actually learn things, on a personal level aswell as a the whole organism.

I think the main problem is that people increasingly has shyed away from any kind of "public office", power have been centered to too few people. And off course the apparant non communicative parts of Aida authorities. Silence or bulletins with out adressing the concerns of members.

I think this will change.

And in this frustrating situation it is good to remember what is good, and what is working. I consider one of the most important things happening right now is the ACTIVITY of people voicing their opinion (different opinons), here and in the assembly.
There is always talking behind backs, but if the public conversation dies down, we are in trouble.

If the amount of members stays above 35 (or could be pushed above 40, with active measures), AND if it is true that Aida owns a large chunk of money (eduacation is bringing in a large portion), competitions will add to that - then I believe there is an opening for small reimbursement for "public office". I would very much like to see a vote on that in the assembly.

And off course, as Pim says, this discussion should out of principle be held in the Aida forum. If the board/commissions are AVAILABLE in the Aida forum, this will gain popularity. But again, there are things that are worth pursuing out of the good principle, but maybe not yet plausible or practical. Still only 400 members in the Aida forum.

It would be easy to find out the will of the members (assembly) by some inquiring votes.

A question like:
1) In order of importance (number 1 to 3) (1 means it is most important):
- TC should try to make the rules more audience friendly.
- TC should try and find ways to reduce LMC/BO/PBOMM.
- TC should try to make the rules even more objective.

That would give the TC guidance from the body of members.

OR

2) Below are some matters that Aida might need to solve. Prioritze each
by giving them a number between 1 to 10. Do not use the same number
twice. (1 means that it is the most urgent matter)
(not assigning a number means that it is not that important).

- TC up and running.
- Within 18 month have an education trainer on each continent.
- Within 18 month have a judge trainer on each continent.
- Change the judge system so that it becomes more fair.
(amount of judging reflected, clearer advance system etc)
- TC should within 12 months have an online education system for SP
judging (and other subjective rules that might need clarification).
- A more effective anti doping plan.
- Aida should spend money on a member rally plan in Africa and Asia.
- Updating the data on the homepage (for instance personal data).
- Ranking system up and running.
- TC should work out a concept for future WC´s. How to handle different situations.

This is what I could think of, there is off course other options. But it would give the board guidance of what the members want. The board members are there to push members opinions - positions on the board is not a carte blanche for building your own vision.

Sebastian

 

[trux]

Excellent comments in general, Sebastian. Just this one may pose some problems, although I agree it would make sense:

... then I believe there is an opening for small reimbursement for "public office"

I am not sure about the Swiss law governing non-profit organizations, but often it is so, that at least the standard officials (president, secretary, treasurer) must not get any salary, or pull any other kind of profit from the association. So it would need to be discussed with a Swiss lawyer, who would recommend ways compatible with the law for the reimbursement of the "public office".

 

[Jorg]

Update about AIDA Wanted: AIDA Executive Board Members! | Shark Freediving

 

[pranoide]

As the storm passed already?

why wasn't the "open" letter from Bill, sent to all the mails(instructors/judges,etc) or even on the AIDA forum.

Two questions, shouldn't the education officer be voted by Instructors,and technical officer by judges, instead of national associations?

what is the roll of Inst/judges if in their country there is no AIDA national, or is not operating, or not working on the "idea" of AIDA Int.?

DiveFree
M