Taimen - Russian pneumovacuum speargun

[tromic]

Thanks Pete! You are right! All the time I was wrong thinking the trigger have been working different way, rotating instead of sliding up - down.
Here is a link to some nice pictures of Taimen parts.
http://podvoh.net/forum/ruzhya/135848-obzor-pnevmovakuumnogo-ruzhya-tajmen.html#156814

 

[popgun pete]

Here is a photo from the "Taimen" web-site, you can see the "D" shape on the lower section of the small pin. That shape indexes the sear so that it aligns fore-aft in the housing as the retaining cover plate for the sear column has a matching hole in it, you need to have the cover the right way around on the gun and not 180 degrees out of position. The hole in the top of the column stops it pumping the air above it in its sliding bore.

 

[tromic]

Taimen has an interesting, nice design! I hoppe you will test it soon!
I read on Russian forum that Vlanik of 38 cm has same performance as Taimen of 60 cm. Vlanik is also simple and interesting design.

 

[Jegwan]

Taimen has an interesting, nice design! I hoppe you will test it soon!
I read on Russian forum that Vlanik of 38 cm has same performance as Taimen of 60 cm. Vlanik is also simple and interesting design.

I suppose that the length of the spear inserted when loaded in the two guns compared to their length is relatively longer on the Vlanic due to its simple design.
Do you know if it is possible to bye a Vlanic if you live outside of Russia - is it available in Kroatia?
Jégwan

 

[tromic]

I suppose that the length of the spear inserted when loaded in the two guns compared to their length is relatively longer on the Vlanic due to its simple design.
Do you know if it is possible to bye a Vlanic if you live outside of Russia - is it available in Kroatia?
Jégwan

You can buy Vlanik gun only in Russia.

 

[popgun pete]

The working course of the piston, or piston stroke, is 375 mm in a "Taimen 600". A "Vlanik" speargun runs its spear from one end of the gun to the other, so a "Vlanik 38" has approximately the same working stroke. The diagram shows the internal layout of the "Vlanik". I asked Vlanik about buying one of his guns and he said that the difficulty lay in getting the gun out of Russia. As we know the same was said of the "Taimen". With a bit of luck and persistence anything is possible, plus the task of exporting spearguns may become easier as attitudes change with respect to them being weapons, but not terrestrial weapons, as they are dedicated to underwater use.

 

[Jegwan]

Thanks Peter. I expected that the working strokes on the to guns wasn't that different. The Vlanik gun has an interesting design. I would like to try one - Do you know if it shoots real silent?
I will let you both know if I get lucky and succeed getting my hands on one. The one on the photo - is it one from your collection?
And sorry for disturbing the Taimen thread with this...
Jégwan

 

[popgun pete]

I have never seen a "Vlanik" speargun in the "metal", so to speak, but I know that they come in various editions. Here is a photo of some "Vlanik 38" guns, there is more than one. The shot should be quiet, but the gun uses a front notched shaft as the sear tooth mechanism cannot be placed inside the gun's pressure chamber. Like all spearguns you buy it for a particular use unless you need a "universal" model which can be employed in a wider range of tasks, although no single gun can do everything, so you need at least two unless you always hunt in the same situation every time.

 

[Jegwan]

Thanks for the photo. Looks like the line release is different on the models.
I agree; but please don't tell my wife that two guns will do the job!
My interest in the Vlanik is most of all the unique technical design.
Jégwan

 

[tromic]

One important difference is that Vlanik uses 9 mm shaft (only!?) and only front tied shaft ("free shaft").

 

[popgun pete]

The "Vlanik" speargun was discussed here: http://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/vlanikgun.90450/#post-842173

Another thread on the same topic is here: http://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/pneumatic-speargun-without-piston.94538/

 

[popgun pete]

Sunny weather finally arrived on the very day that I dismantle the "Taimen". I decided to install the new 2-part hub while the gun was still in a pristine condition as everything should move very freely. Progress was quick until I arrived at removing the end bulkheads and found that I could not budge them, yet it all seemed so easy on the official video. I put the gun in the fridge to chill it off and tried again, but no result. I then let it warm up in the sunlight and had another go, but it was unyielding. So a key I made earlier to insert in the bore of the already removed power regulator shaft, it had a red plastic tip that was machined to closely fit inside the power regulator bore without damaging it, would be the jamming device that stopped the barrel assembly turning while I twisted the all-purpose special tool in the muzzle with the gun held firmly in the lathe. Usually this is a last resort, but I was not going to get anywhere without doing it. I wrapped the rear bulkhead body in reinforced tape to protect it against the jaws of the chuck as I did not want the job turning if the plastic tip cracked and rotation commenced thereby ripping up the machined metal surface. With reverse gear in the lathe simultaneously engaged the chuck was locked up. After a few anxious moments everything began to slowly unwind, but with resistance most of the way as I discovered that the number of "O" rings in the gun have doubled at each end, so more friction. I had to knock the rear bulkhead out with a long drift sized to fit through the tank from the muzzle end as that end is slightly smaller than the rear end of the tank, the tank must be hydro-formed or necked down at the muzzle. Tight interference "O" rings seem to be the culprit as everything is a precision fit. All the parts are now being washed to clean them of residual oil, so I will provide more info later. I drained the original oil into a glass jar, but you lose the thin oil film covering all the interior walls of the gun.

 

[popgun pete]

Hopefully someone who actually owns one of these can fill in any other details that have not been covered here, such as whether the air flow during the shot has to pass through the hole in the sear which would tend to throttle the shot. The optional power regulator is a port in a transverse rod that revolves through ninety degrees to be either open or closed and is located immediately behind the sear, so if the air flows through this regulator port then it must also pass through the sear as well. With no schematic drawing the air flow passages in the rear of the gun are a mystery in terms of the inner barrel screwing into the rear bushing which houses the trigger mechanism; those connecting threads have to be in front of the vertical sliding column sear, so how does the air from the front air tank get to pass around the rear of the piston and the power regulator, if one is fitted. By some drilled holes no doubt, but just where are they positioned?

Well four years after I wrote that I now have the answer. The air flow holes in the "Taimen PVR" model are drilled asymmetrically, six are grouped closely together on one side and two are on the opposite side (LHS of the gun) so that they pass around the vertical bore hole that the sear column slides up and down in and also avoid hitting the horizontally disposed transverse bore hole of the power regulator control shaft that sits directly behind it. That construction requires extremely precise machining as there is not a lot of space to work with and it would have been very easy to get it wrong and break through into one of the larger diameter bore holes. I estimate that the bore of these small air flow holes is approximately 2 mm, but I don't have a drill bit to check it out with and vernier calipers will not fit inside the cramped space. Looking in from the rear end these small holes break through into an annular recess that is larger than the opening in the rear face of the housing which indicates the work of a boring bar to reach inside the component and machine out that recess.

In the single-power "Taimen PV" version the air flow holes stop short of the sear column position as they terminate in a larger counter-bored recess positioned directly in front of the sear position which I assume was similarly created using a boring bar to get in behind the equally spaced ring of small airflow holes and create the recess. The air flow holes can be equally spaced circumferentially as they don't go anywhere near the cross-drilled bore holes, so it is a conceptually simpler layout, but not necessarily easier to make. So the single-power "PV" version does not need to flow air from the reservoir tank through the hole in the vertical sear column that serves as the sear tooth, whereas the variable power version does and that is why at maximum power it is down 10% on the power of the single-power version.

 

[tromic]

Pete, where would be the power regulator positioned on this diagram?

 

[popgun pete]

Pete, where would be the power regulator positioned on this diagram?

I don't have a company drawing of the "PVR" version, but it will be something like this reworked "PV" version I just chopped around and changed after looking at the actual item I have.

 

[tromic]

Interesting solution, like a water valve.

 

[popgun pete]

Interesting solution, like a water valve.

Yes, some have likened it to the tap on a Samovar. I have now combined both versions on that diagram so the air flow layout on both models can be compared.

 

[tromic]

Second version has much higher air flow. But on first image the air flow is still higher (~ 10 mm /6 mm) than on Cyrano (11 mm/6 mm).

 

[popgun pete]

I found this table showing the various lengths of the gun models and have added the extra dimensions marked with an asterisk. The 60 mm dimension is measured horizontally from the flat rear end of the plastic tail cap to a vertical projection running upwards from the rearmost section of the handle butt. A small stainless steel screw and nut located directly above the cap squeezes the grip handle halves together in order to hold the cap in place.

 

[popgun pete]

The "Taimen" Muzzle or Front Hub: a masterpiece of compact design and high precision engineering as this diagram is shown here at close to its actual physical size. I placed the thrust washer inside the threaded rear bore on its own and it only went in with absolutely zero tilt as it otherwise caught on the thread peaks, so the fit is incredibly precise. If that thrust washer was a piston and the rear bore was not threaded, but smooth instead, then it would hardly need rings to turn it into a combustion engine in terms of the running clearances!