The first freediving competition under ice

[Steinar]

Welcome to Oslo Ice Challenge


The worlds first AIDA Freediving competition under Ice.




Date: March 7-8. 2009
Place: Lake Lutvann, Oslo Norway
Disciplines: CWT/FIM/CNF/STA
Team / Indiv: IND
Type: National With Guests
Status: Ranking
With Finals: No
Organizer: Oslo Fridykkerklubb: Steinar Schjager
Judge: Sebastian Näslund, Martin Müller
Contact: Steinar Schjager

Restriction: Depth 53 meter, Maximum 20 Athletes
Information / Registration: Oslo Ice Challenge



Diving under the ice is a fantastic experience that we would like to share with as many as possible. The safety will be just as good as in any other competition. Visibility during the winter is approximately 20 meters. Imagine being at 20 meter depth and seeing the surface above you as a tiny rectangle and as you look down into the dark you see the light from the canister torch 25 meters below you!
Don't worry, It's not that cold! Spending 5 minutes in 2 degrees will certainly make your face cold but the core temperature will not drop.
Diving in a 3 x 3 meter hole in the ice, everyone has ringside view of the action. The ice forms a huge platform, and being a freshwater lake, there is no current. Other huge advantages is that there is no waves, no jellyfish, no thermocline. It only gets warmer the closer you get to the bottom.
March 7th-8th the temperature in the air should not be too bad and the ice should be a nice and solid 25 cm. There will be a maximum of 20 athletes, so HURRY UP AND REGISTER!


Steinar

 

[ILDiver]

Already stated in the Newsbot thread, but...

This looks like a trip for team USA - Midwest division We only hold one ice dive a year, but dive around the ice often in the winter time by a cooling vent for a power plant.

Good luck with the comp, it looks like a good time!

 

[Gwaihir]

brrrrr detta blir gøy !

 

[efattah]

Is it allowed to dive without a wetsuit?

 

[Evita]

Sounds very very cool :t and I would have liked to come (I can say from a safe distance hehe)... at least to watch

 

[Steinar]

Is it allowed to dive without a wetsuit?

I don`t see a reason why we should deny you that pleasure

 

[Evita]

I'll donate 1 Norwegian krone per unashamed meter

 

[B-J]

I`m really looking forward to this. It`s such a great place to dive during the summer and I`m guessing it`s even better in march When I think about it there`s alot of advantages with ice-freediving. No waves, no current and a huge, supersteady platform all around. And perfect for the spectators.
I`m hoping that our own diver, Gordon will do a dive without suit:blackeye

 

[B-J]

I just thought about what Erik F said about diving without a suit. Has there ever been done constant weight without suit? The only "performance" I`ve seen is the Guiness record swim under ice. I could never have done that but it looks like a panic swim in wide shorts Anyone else know something about this?

 

[efattah]

I have done several competitions with no suit:

July 2004 CAFA Nationals: 74m with no suit, surface 19C, and 10C below 12m, 8C below 60m
May 2005 CAFA Regionals: Announced 83m, turned at 35m due to crossed deco & competition line, surface 15C, 8C below 12m
July 2007 CAFA Nationals: 48m FRC dive with no suit, 19C surface, 10C below 12m
April 2008 Vertical Blue '08: 58m,62m and 67m FRC dives with no suit in 24-25C water


I have done constant weight dives with no suit in water as cold as 4C, but that was not in a competition. In May 2005 I did 80.5m in water that was 15C at the surface and 8C below 12m.

 

[B-J]

So I`m guessing cold water is a positive thing for you What Steinar and I have concluded with so far is that if youre not hypothermic when you start it`s not negative. When we dive in "Lake Lutvann" in the spring the water on the surface can be almost 20C. So we can use 3mm suits. (Our yamamoto suits get very thin at depth). At depth the temp drops alot. Maybe you Steinar can remember how cold it gets. Anyway I notice the cold water significantly at depth. And this does not seem to have a negative effect to us.

Here is the video of the swimming dutchman: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfCsSDiPZxk]YouTube - Furthest Under Ice Swim[/ame]

I wonder if his technique is the same in warm water

Eric: -can you breath normally when you`re submerged in very cold water?

 

[Steinar]

This summer it was around 10 C at 10 meter. I didn`t check my suunto at 50 but it should be close to 4 c beeing almost the bottom. It felt like my 3mm suit didn`t help me alot down there..
It is going to be interesting to see if we can feel the temprature getting higher as we ascent from the ice.

 

[apneaboy]

Is it allowed to dive without a wetsuit?

Do you think you can gain a competitive advantage from no suit if you dive quick or are you just hardcore?

 

[ILDiver]

That dude under the ice is hardcore! Wow. I'm planning to do the Wisconsin Ice dive (aka Freeze-A-Palooza) in February, but dang. I'll wear a suit.

That guy could not get himself out of the water, it looked like he was losing motor control.

 

[efattah]

Do you think you can gain a competitive advantage from no suit if you dive quick or are you just hardcore?

Of course you get a competitive advantage! The depth limit for the Norway comp is 53m. A 53m dive in a very thick suit (6.5 to 8mm) is very hard, while the same dive without a suit is joke easy.

To answer an earlier question, there is drastically reduced CO2 storage once you get into cold water, so I need to hyperventilate before I even get in, and continuously once I'm in the water.

 

[chrismar]

Of course you get a competitive advantage! The depth limit for the Norway comp is 53m. A 53m dive in a very thick suit (6.5 to 8mm) is very hard, while the same dive without a suit is joke easy.

To answer an earlier question, there is drastically reduced CO2 storage once you get into cold water, so I need to hyperventilate before I even get in, and continuously once I'm in the water.

Sorry Eric, could you please clarify? Surely the reduced CO2 storage would make hypoventilation a necessity, not the other way around? Aren't you saying above that "I store less CO2 on a dive, so I need to blow off more beforehand"?

Or are you saying that the total buffer space for CO2 is lower in cold water and therefore a small amount of CO2 is needed for the same DR effect? I would have expected the lower metabolism to noticeably reduce CO2 production and more than make up for any reduced buffering capacity.

 

[efattah]

CO2 is less soluble in cold water than it is in warm water.

Cold water does two things:
- Cools down the blood & body water
- Vasoconstricts, which causes blood to pool in the core

When you jump into cold water, you are overwhelmed with the urge to gasp and breathe as fast as possible. If you try to hold your breath you will get contractions immediately. This is because the warm blood & body water had lots of CO2 dissolved in it. The CO2 comes out of solution because the liquid is cooling down and the cooler liquid cannot store as much CO2.

Then, this CO2 supersaturated blood then pools into the core.

Result: you must lower your CO2 level if you want to have any chance of holding your breath in very cold water (with no wetsuit).

Once you have reached equilibrium in the cold water, you still cannot behave normally. If you do your normal breathe-up, and try to hold your breath, the CO2 will accumulate at a similar rate as before in terms of moles of CO2 (if not faster due to tense muscles). However unlike in warmer conditions, the CO2 has nowhere to go as the CO2 storage of the body fluids are reduced. So the CO2, having nowhere to go, accumulates extremely fast and the urge to breathe comes fast and hard. Again, a different breathing pattern is required.

Beginners to cold water should be careful, though, as the cold will mask common symptoms of over-breathing. You will not get the same tingling feelings from overbreathing, when in cold water. So it is extremely difficult to figure out if you have breathed the correct amount.

Further, deep thermoclines complicate the matter even more. Upon hitting a deep thermocline, if you did not breathe enough before hand, you could be overwhelmed with cold induced contractions after hitting the thermocline, as the CO2 storage reduction is further amplified.

 

[Mullins]

CO2 is less soluble in cold water than it is in warm water...

The CO2 comes out of solution because the liquid is cooling down and the cooler liquid cannot store as much CO2....

Then, this CO2 supersaturated blood then pools into the core.

It comes out of solution? To where??

If on the other hand it is simply supersaturated (forced to remain in solution), why would this affect your blood acidity? I mean, the concentration of CO2 hasn't changed, only its solubility.

 

[Mullins]

A 53m dive in a very thick suit (6.5 to 8mm) is very hard

Rubbish Eric, that dive would be easy for you in a 7mm suit with plastic bifins rofl

 

[trux]

It comes out of solution? To where??

From the colder parts (extremities, skin, fat, muscles) to the warmer core (where also the most important chemoreceptors for the ventilation regulation are). Hence suddenly raising the CO2 level there. What Eric wrote makes perfect sense.