The first freediving competition under ice

[Kars]

I happen to have an enjoyable no suit dive in Hemmoor Germany. On the invitation of a few very nice Danes, I joined in the morning the no suit diving in the clear but cold sweet water. Waering a HR monitor I was intrested in my HR. After a two minutes of acclementising the 17c water I dove to an depth of just 5m and than contioued to glide to about 7 following the gentle slope into the first termocline to 12c. It's funny and sweet to experience the big vasoconstriction and skinn closing when hitting the water. The feeling of presence and manouvrability is so much nicer and better without a suit.
I did a little static at 5m and the HR dropped to 30 after 1'40", thought this was all very new and got slowly. I did about 5 dives, and stayed in the water for about 15 min. The Sauna afterwards was the cream on the cake

Wearing my 3mm in Sweden was to lessen the impact of termocline, and hyperthermia, and the risk of jellyfish hits.

Also in Spain I had a really enjoyable no suit FRC dive to 20m. And it dawned on me how much more easy it is to move and swim this way. Though - I must admid- there is a learning curve for learning to relax and 'breath-up' despite the effects of the cold triggering your bodies reflexes. Is adapting just a case of repetition?

I expect equalisation may become much more challenging with a cold head and diafram.

Eric, how fast do you go on such dives?

Intresting experiences!

Kars

 

[Mullins]

From the colder parts (extremities, skin, fat, muscles) to the warmer core (where also the most important chemoreceptors for the ventilation regulation are). Hence suddenly raising the CO2 level there. What Eric wrote makes perfect sense.

Cool - yes, makes sense that the CO2 concentration of the warm bits is raised as the solubility is lowered at the extremities. The 'out of solution' bit had me rather confused. Of course the CO2 stays in solution, but will rather dissolve in warmer (core) liquid as soon as it gets a chance, solubility being higher there.

 

[trux]

The 'out of solution' bit had me rather confused. Of course the CO2 stays in solution, but will rather dissolve in warmer (core) liquid as soon as it gets a chance, solubility being higher there.

Well, that bit may be correct too - you have to consider that there are several different "solutions" in the body (different liquids), not only blood. So as these liquids (namely water in cells which contains a lot of CO2) gets cold, and warmer blood flows through it, it gets more saturated with CO2 than normally.

 

[Mullins]

True, out of one solution and into another.

I prefer CW without a suit, mainly because of the reduced buoyancy change, better fin stroke and it's also easier to judge my speed. Although that whole 'hypothermic diving' theory makes sense (I think Eric's gone into some detail elsewhere on here), from a purely empirical standpoint I'm still not sure about the benefits of cold water for apnea having done some good performances in uncomfortably warm conditions (STA, DYN and CWT). Who knows though, perhaps I would have gone further/longer in cold conditions. I'd probably give Eric's cold-water approach a go locally if I thought I could equalise through the thermoclines with no hood...



Who am I kidding, of course I wouldn't. 5mm suit please.

 

[martin_gk]

Thank you gentlemen for this completley new peace of science about or wonderfull hobby. I never thought of different solutions in the body and CO2 traveling between them... amazing stuff

Now, back to the competition: Eric, you have practicley signed up for it, I understand... And you are expected to dive "dutch style". Bjearte, what about that DNFUI Guinness Record? You wanna go for it? I have the safety all worked out. You dive with a lanyard on your back, the rope goes in a loop with a tennis ball for retreaval. We have holes every ... say... 10m. You decide where to come up.

What do you say?

 

[Mullins]

That guy could not get himself out of the water, it looked like he was losing motor control.

Definitely looked like a samba/BO to me :blackeye

 

[trux]

Although that whole 'hypothermic diving' theory makes sense (I think Eric's gone into some detail elsewhere on here), from a purely empirical standpoint I'm still not sure about the benefits of cold water for apnea having done some good performances in uncomfortably warm conditions (STA, DYN and CWT) ...

Yes, that's true. Your record in Egypt and especially the easiness you did it with, surprised me enormously, considering the warm water. On the other hand others suffered a lot (I know that for example Martin Stepanek performed far below his PB, and almost blacked out). So it really puzzles me why it does not make the same or similar effect to all. Well, the training may play a role, but Martin should be more used to warm water in Miami, than you in NZ, so am not sure if this is exactly the missing piece.

 

[B-J]

Bjearte, what about that DNFUI Guinness Record? You wanna go for it? I have the safety all worked out. You dive with a lanyard on your back, the rope goes in a loop with a tennis ball for retreaval. We have holes every ... say... 10m. You decide where to come up.

I haven`t tried icebathing yet, so I`m pretty sure that I wouldn`t be able to handle the cold water. But doing DNF under the ice with maybe a 3mm suit would be alot of fun

 

[B-J]

Have any of you thought of being more "seal-like." Alot of the top freedivers looks like they haven`t been fed for months. How about putting on let`s say 10-15kg of fat Alot of buoyancy, yes, but it`s not changing buoyancy.

 

[Kars]

Yes Bjorten, I thought of it, and tried it for two weeks eating my ass on but it didn't work for me. I only put on 1-2 KG in that two weeks, felt misserable, clumsy, heavy, low energy. I guess it's hard to get weight on when you are of a lean body type and don't consume artificial preservatives and other chemicals.

Otherwise people with a nice layer of natural insulator should be happy about it and use and expand on their special advantage into a specialism.
Maybe in the futer the list of the idea Freediver features could be extended with: bodytype and fat percentage?

Kars

 

[Steinar]

What about the dangers of squeeze and cold water diving?

Most divers will be of season in March, which doesn`t help. I hope the divers will be a bit conservative, at least at the begining . Hopefully Oslo Ice Challenge is not going to be known as Oslo Squeeze Challenge.

 

[B-J]

I`m going to do some empty lung dives in the 4m pool and I hope that will help me. "Oslo squeeze challenge" sounds like a catchy name. Steinar: any news about the prizes from Elios? Are there many confirmed participants? Maybe you can post a list of athletes?

 

[Kars]

Let me quess the Elios price for the winner, a 10 mm suit?

 

[Gwaihir]

Let me guess the Elios price for the winner, a 10 mm suit?

ha ha nice one.
How big of a hole will be made ? thinking of posibilities to be in water to film, and dive during competition.

 

[Kars]

When you got a sonar and some lines and pullies your camera can follow the diver all the way down and back Provided there is enough visability and light to film from a safe distance. A life image feedcable would be even better for the audiance and safety! Anyway I'm probebly daydreaming now... - Wake up!

Kars

 

[martin_gk]

How big of a hole will be made ? thinking of posibilities to be in water to film, and dive during competition.

If you want, you can get your own hole for taking footage... right, Steinar?

 

[Steinar]

Thats already part of the plan. Sebastian wants to make some footage of the action under the ice.

We even got access to a camera at the bottom plate that can transfere live to a screen.

 

[B-J]

Can you please specify what "action under the ice" means? And if you`re making a movie of it, what kind of movie will it be?

 

[Wasserpest]

Can you please specify what "action under the ice" means? And if you`re making a movie of it, what kind of movie will it be?

ICE AGE 3!?

R/:martial

 

[Steinar]

Well you have to aks Sebastian. All I know is that this have to be the film music: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxN_pbMOFk0&feature=related]YouTube - Vanilla Ice-Ice Ice Baby[/ame]