To Comp or not to Comp.. That is the question.

[Almostafish]

The BSA are having an AGM shortly and need to know if spearo's are still interested in competitive spearfishing? There are also other polls that need opinions so go nuts.

 

[Pastor]

I refuse to join the forum to vote but if someone wants to vote for me then it's a firm NO

 

[spaghetti]

I refuse to join the forum to vote but if someone wants to vote for me then it's a firm NO

Why? I can understand the "no" and even agree there are some good points against comps, but why a "firm NO"? This sounds as if you do not simply disagree, but as if you strongly reject them, and this makes me wonder.
For me, speaking for one, comps are Ok. And again, for me one may have good reasons to disagree, but IMHO there's no reason for strongly rejecting.

 

[Pastor]

I just don't like comps, I don't like the way that the weigh ins are conducted in public, it causes a lot of ill feeling towards a sport I am passionate about. I don't like the impression that is given to the general public by a load of spearfishers all hunting in a specific area apparently clearing out the fish stocks shooting everything that moves. This is the view of the general public and it puts us in a bad light and I reserve my right to disagree totally with competitions in that format.

Edit: This is my own point of view and in no way reflects the opinion of deeperblue.
.......This is also a response to the question of competitions not directly to Spaghetti (cause he's my mate)

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I don't want to join just to vote either, but if we are going to discuss it here, my vote would be a not-so-firm no.

Personally, I don't want to compete because I don't want to shoot fish just for points when I would not otherwise have shot them.

Also, I don't want to be tempted to take chances pushing depth or bottom time in order to get a fish for the comp.

I enjoy spearfishing because I enjoy just being there in the environment relaxing while waiting for that shot at a big fish. I don't want to turn it into a competition.

And finally, I'm afraid that many competitions just end up making us look bad to the general public.

Its not that I strongly condemn competitions or the people who participate. Recently I went to a weigh-in just for the beer and camaraderie. Its just not for me.

 

[podge]

I just don't like comps, I don't like the way that the weigh ins are conducted in public, it causes a lot of ill feeling towards a sport I am passionate about. I don't like the impression that is given to the general public by a load of spearfishers all hunting in a specific area apparently clearing out the fish stocks shooting everything that moves. This is the view of the general public and it puts us in a bad light and I reserve my right to disagree totally with competitions in that format.

Ditto

Nicely put that man.

 

[kkdavids]

i actually would say we get a very positive reponse from the general public who happen to be passing by a weigh in. Many people are interested in what goes on and want to get invloved in spearfishing themselves. Again this is my opinion from what i have observed from attending competitions for the last 13 years.

 

[Spaniard]

Interesting to see that currently the voting is 9 to 7 in favour of phasing out competitions on BSA website. I actually renounced my BSA membership when I stopped competing and to be honest I get most of what I need here on DB; being a member of a local club would be interesting but only if I lived nearer to the sea. The guys in Guernsey all fish 'together' in a way and there is no club there other than the Guernsey thread here on DB, ditto the Cornwall thread, South devon thread, Dorset thread, Wales thread etc etc.

 

[Almostafish]

Just think what a bored bloke with a laptop could do if he really put some effort in!

 

[Almostafish]

Im going to stop all this around midnight but as of now you cant argue with the numbers. The anti comp guys are winning.

And its generated more interest, in hits and votes, than any of the other polls ( in 3 hours )

 

[spaghetti]

It's been years I kept myself away from competitions for the same reasons that both Pastor and Bill Mc mentioned: public image, introspective and/or recreational approach, good points indeed.
But then I start wondering: does this really make sense? If you blame spearfishing comps, you blame spearfishing itself. Cause if WE spearos blame spearfishing comps for impact on fish stocks and poor ethics, what will the rest of the people think? The message we'll forward to the public opinion will be "spearfishing is bad", full stop. Because most of the people don't know at all what it's about, and are not subtle enough to care about the distinction comp-non comp.
In my country they've been hiding competitions for years: hiding. Hiding away from people so that nobody could see. Comps have been made in secret as can be. But the public image of spearfishing didn't take any advantage: on the contrary it has been getting worse and worse.
As a matter of fact, nobody could see the real thing, and made their opinions based on prejudice and stereotypes. So on a side note - and I'm aware it's just a sidenote - I wander WHAT IF people could just SEE what it's about, SEE by their own eyes that the harvest of fish of the annual National Championship is SMALLER than the amount of fish displayed every single day on the shelves of any single fish shop?
...
PS-Last month they called me to a comp to help as a referee and I said yes I'll be there, but my karma made me get up from bed at noon that day! zzz
...PPS- Same here Pastor. Just discussing, and I may as well change my mind totally if someone convince me that I'm on a blind track.

 

[Benc]

Almostafish,
I wouldn't say 8 hours is enough time for a representative vote to be cast, I was there when the hunting with dogs vote was cast and we found that a vocal minority always had their say quickly, we got banned. Just my opinion, but I don't believe 8 hours will give a representative vote from all spearos. Not everyone has enough time to be on here every day. (And no, i'm not a competition spearo).

Ben

 

[sunfish]

Spaghetti, I hear what your saying about impact on fish stocks. I don't think comps have much impact on fish stocks overall. I do think they have an impact on the stocks in the area where they're held.
Whats killing fish stocks is the pressure of commercial fishing. Although I don't much like comps personally, what really needles me is people who feel they have a right to wipe out fish species simply because they want to make money by doing so.

 

[Pastor]

I am not trying to blame comps for any decline in fish stocks, that is the perception of onlookers. No of us see spearfishing as bad, we all promote the selective hunting ethos but no matter what colour of spectacles you wear Mr and Mrs Smith from Acacia Avenue think we are a barbaric bunch and a car park full of us waving dead fish around while they are trying to have a Sunday out with their 2.4 children, dog and ice cream doesn't go down well. Yes some people are interested in what we do and are willing to come and ask but the average British citizen isn't like that, they stand back in huddled groups casing their dissaprovement from afar.

A well run competition with good competitors along with an educated public is no harm but it isn't an ideal world and people aren't educated about our sport and do take offense at events like these, no matter what the sport. The attitude of the average British public to killing has even recently been incorporated into a beer advert (the one with the lobster).

 

[ILDiver]

ESPN shows fishing and hunting all the time on TV. They even show shark fishing on ESPN or Spike. I don't know if the average person see's it as cheating as much as the average fisherman would. The fishing and shark shows they are hooting and hollaring showing the fish.

The speros I've seen are modest about their efforts. There are exceptions of course. But overall it's a fringe sport that people either get or they don't. Most of the issues I've heard of are of "good ole boys" trying to muscle their way in. The guys that bash what they don't know or understand. We don't have to please these narrow minded individuals though.

Be open about the sport, don't be embarassed and if someone chooses to complain, they just opened the floor to discuss it. And while your explaining how difficult it is, throw in an explination of the boating laws on staying away from a dive flag!

Invite the person with the problem along on a dive. I'm betting the responce would be something to the effect that they don't want to get in the water. But it's always the other guys fault....

 

[Robbo66]

I think my views on comps are, by now, very clear. Indefensible, and a first class way of bringing unwlecomed attention from legislative bodies looking to restrict or possibly ban spearfishing.
How can anyone possibly think that comps in any way, can possibly benefit the sport and the publics perception of us ?.
We're having a tough time defnding our sport here in wales....without comps!.

 

[azapa]

I have comped, and will do in the future. I don't like them, but in general am realizing much about the sport that I didn't know when I started (last year) like, shock horror: buddies suck when spearing, you loose sight of them all the time, why bother with them? and, shock horror, in comps spearos DO shoot everything that moves. (I have shot some pathetically small fish in comps. drugged up on that comp. fever). Oh dear. Down on spearing today!

Next comp I do I will try to do it on my terms and loose the dumb stuff, hope it works.

Oh, at most weigh ins here, the norm is the shooter ONLY keeps the largest fish, all else is donated to local community (not bad PR idea eh?)

 

[dave]

. The BSA is never going to change its ways and I know that, they propose all sorts of measures to make the comps look better but they just cant stop, even if its not what the members want and is possibly going to end Uk spearo.


Bryn

I am sorry Bryn, but with the greatest respect that is a load of rubbish
The BSA is a democratic organisation. ALL members have a vote at the
AGM. The BSA IS its members, not some shadowy entity with a mind of its own. Any member can make a proposal the AGM, the members present then vote on it, if it gets a majority it is carried. In a democracy, the majority view is carried, not the view of the most vocal. The BSA may not speak for you, but you certainly do not speak for BSA members
Competitions may not be everyones cup of tea, but they do not represent a threat to spearfishing in this country. I have a lot of official dealings with various fisheries agencies, including sitting on the Cornwall Marine Protected Areas Working group as the spearfishing representative. Competitions are not a concern to any officials I have spoken to, in fact we have had Sea Fisheries Committee officers present at several competitions. Their only concern with spearfishing, is "weekend warriors" running around with spearguns shooting undersized fish at popular beaches. If spearfishing were to be banned in the whole UK, it would be via the route of spearguns themselves being banned as offensive weapons (eg if someone was killed with one and there was a public outcry). Fisheries decisions within the six mile limit are made by individual sea fisheries committees, NOT central government. Sea Fisheries committees are mainly controlled by commercial interests, who although they would like to see all fish left for themselves, are generally realistic enough to see that spearfishing of all types involves such tiny numbers of fish that their powers would not allow them to ban it on conservation grounds (which is what their byelaws must be based on) The situation in South Wales was brought about by a petty bureaucrat revelling in the power of well meaning but uninformed spearfishermen begging him not to ban their sport.
Competitions are NOT a mass fish slaughter. All minimum sizes are considerably bigger than the legal minimums, and the average number of fish per competitor is normally in the order of 1-4.Winning catch is often 7-8 fish
(obviously sometimes it is much higher, but I have seen competitions won with 2 fish) Normally about half the entrants will catch nothing. Competitors are spread out over a wide area, and have almost no effect on the local fish population. I have personally dived competition areas the day after a competition, and seen plenty of fish.
The allegations about fish dumping are completely unfounded. There are no penalties for legal fish smaller than the competition minimum, so what would the point be in dumping? All fish brought ashore are put to good use.
How many of those complaining about the public perception of competitions have actually witnessed one? and if so where?

cheers
dave
Spearguns by Spearo uk ltd finest supplier of speargun, monofins, speargun and freediving equipment

 

[Almostafish]

Hi Dave

I was just about to go back to riding my ktm and having a laugh in the water but just one more then.

Your views i take with more weight than many other on here as you are what it says on the box. You've done the freediving route same as myself and then competed at international level for many years. You are one of the largest supplier of kit in UK. You have, lets say, a passion.

Your passion has perhaps left you a little blinkered to peoples real impressions.

http://forums.deeperblue.net/674260-post773.html


I only started all this faze out the comps thing because I was informed that the actions of the BSA affect all Uk spearo's. They Dont. The BSA is just not that important! It might seem it after a few beers and all the good old boys are talking fish ( AGM ) but I don't think it is. Dont rattle my cage and I wont piss everybody off by prodding this oh so open nerve.

Now the sun is out and the wind has dropped so I'm off for a dip.

 

[spaghetti]

My UK friends, the situation in your country is not my business but I'm afraid you're making a tragic mistake. We did the same mistake in my country and now we're paying our bill of bitter for it.
Marking your distance from competitive spearfishing, putting competitive spearfishing in a bad shadow, accepting a ban of competitive spearfishing, WILL NOT help the public perception of RECREATIONAL SPEARFISHING to get any better AT ALL. It will make it worse.

This said, do what seems right to you.