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To Comp or not to Comp.. That is the question.
- Thread starterAlmostafish
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
There some proes about a comp though...eg i Attended the pairs dive with my girl frend as a partner(1st time in the water with a gun)
She realy enjoyed the hole thing and even won a rob allen spear gun,.
It was a great day by all.
I work as a fish monger and people just dnt get that a fish was alive,,, they just see it on the ice and say that one....All day i try and explain the storys with comercial fishing, fish stoks, ect ect ect ect ect...
I think if you like comps then do it if not then dont...
Any way the bsa was asking for people opinion and if your opion is there rong then tell them dont sit and brue in silence or youl go unherd and the "rong" people will just think they are right.
But it is grate to hear everyones opion.
And as for waisting fish i hate having to through out half a makrel let alone a bin bag full. If this is true it is imoral and against the hole idea of your sport.
She realy enjoyed the hole thing and even won a rob allen spear gun,.
It was a great day by all.
I work as a fish monger and people just dnt get that a fish was alive,,, they just see it on the ice and say that one....All day i try and explain the storys with comercial fishing, fish stoks, ect ect ect ect ect...
I think if you like comps then do it if not then dont...
Any way the bsa was asking for people opinion and if your opion is there rong then tell them dont sit and brue in silence or youl go unherd and the "rong" people will just think they are right.
But it is grate to hear everyones opion.
And as for waisting fish i hate having to through out half a makrel let alone a bin bag full. If this is true it is imoral and against the hole idea of your sport.
Dear All,
I have been reading the BSA and DB forums over the last few days in absolute dismay! Can I gently remind you all that we are on the World Wide Web. Anyone dipping into our forums for the first time probably would not visit again after reading the bickering and back biting currently being banded around. Subjective remarks that are inflammatory, such as “mass slaughter” are inaccurate and do not help any of us in the spearfishing community. At worst representatives from the media or government agencies could use this in-fighting against us at some point?!? The perception that the public find competitions “abhorrent” from my observations is inaccurate. Generally those that aren’t interested walk on and many others appear happy to watch the weigh-in. I have not seen any demonstrations from individuals or anti-hunting groups in the last 5 years that I can remember.
As a democratic organisation the BSA holds an AGM each year, which gives all members the opportunity to place proposals for the good or otherwise for spearfishing in the UK. As members of the BSA there are other benefits that include substantial third party insurance cover and a magazine. I would recommend that all of you join the BSA and have a democratic voice and make changes if that’s what the spearfishing community wants.
On a different note, the majority of the BSA and DB forum users use cryptonyms to hide their identity. I personally don’t really understand the reason for that. My point is I could take an individuals comment more seriously if I knew who was making them. Making damaging and inflammatory remarks behind a made up name doesn’t do it for me. An individual who can make an objective statement and stand up in front of others at an AGM would always get my ear and respect.
Finally guys, lets stop kicking each other in the balls and get back to some mature and reasoned debate.
Cheers, Paul
I have been reading the BSA and DB forums over the last few days in absolute dismay! Can I gently remind you all that we are on the World Wide Web. Anyone dipping into our forums for the first time probably would not visit again after reading the bickering and back biting currently being banded around. Subjective remarks that are inflammatory, such as “mass slaughter” are inaccurate and do not help any of us in the spearfishing community. At worst representatives from the media or government agencies could use this in-fighting against us at some point?!? The perception that the public find competitions “abhorrent” from my observations is inaccurate. Generally those that aren’t interested walk on and many others appear happy to watch the weigh-in. I have not seen any demonstrations from individuals or anti-hunting groups in the last 5 years that I can remember.
As a democratic organisation the BSA holds an AGM each year, which gives all members the opportunity to place proposals for the good or otherwise for spearfishing in the UK. As members of the BSA there are other benefits that include substantial third party insurance cover and a magazine. I would recommend that all of you join the BSA and have a democratic voice and make changes if that’s what the spearfishing community wants.
On a different note, the majority of the BSA and DB forum users use cryptonyms to hide their identity. I personally don’t really understand the reason for that. My point is I could take an individuals comment more seriously if I knew who was making them. Making damaging and inflammatory remarks behind a made up name doesn’t do it for me. An individual who can make an objective statement and stand up in front of others at an AGM would always get my ear and respect.
Finally guys, lets stop kicking each other in the balls and get back to some mature and reasoned debate.
Cheers, Paul
In my view,i rarely have anything to do with (apart from my two buddies which i got into the sport) or even meet any other spearos and every time i've walked up the beach with a stringer full of fish i've always had such an interest in what i've been doing that we've joked about printing pamphlets to hand out.People are always curious and respectful about what i do and i'm always happy to explain the hard work and selective nature of our sport.I'n five years spearing i've never had a negative response from the general public but obviously 'hunting' is bound to enrage the usual suspects.I've never entered a comp but i'd like to give it a try at least to meet others who enjoy my sport which is something i've never done and to learn from more experienced spearos.
Me neither, and I've said that on three different diving boards until people are sick of hearing it, but without much effect.
I got a lot of replies about what a dangerous place the internet is, so that we must maintain anonymity to protect ourselves, but for over 10 years I've posted on Freedivelist where the rules require that every post be signed with real name and city of residence.
To date, I have never been attacked by a group of young women who wanted to have their way with my body, but hope springs eternal.
My name is Bill McIntyre, for better or worse.
Not posted on here for months cos I got fed up of all the dross.... here it goes again!
Bryn is a good friend and a great diver, but I'm with Spearo Dave on this one. I was the BSA secrectary for a couple years and found the fishery guys to be helpful and understanding of what we do.
Never quite understand why this sort of threat gets so much attention when the trawlers in our waters (and thats probably the Spanish and French) take more in one net than any one spearo could get in a life time. I always found the public to be interested in comps.
Over and out for another year, I suspect, while I go back to doing what I do.... Shooting nice sized fish!
Bryn is a good friend and a great diver, but I'm with Spearo Dave on this one. I was the BSA secrectary for a couple years and found the fishery guys to be helpful and understanding of what we do.
Never quite understand why this sort of threat gets so much attention when the trawlers in our waters (and thats probably the Spanish and French) take more in one net than any one spearo could get in a life time. I always found the public to be interested in comps.
Over and out for another year, I suspect, while I go back to doing what I do.... Shooting nice sized fish!
The few comps that I've dove here in California were very cool. They had larger size limits and smaller bag limits for most of the fish we generally shoot. All of the fish was taken home and eaten. They just seem like a nice way to get a group together and have some fun with people with similar interests. They were scramble meets, meaning participants signed in and then could go wherever they want to go and then be back by the weigh in. They were also not held in super public places, but were not hidden either.
I think if they are well planned and organized they are a great opportunity for spearfishermen to organize, fundraise and just have a good ol' time.
We all know that our method of fishing is the most eco friendly way and that any rational person who takes the time to learn about the facts will see that as well. I think small bag limits are a good idea. As for the people that will hate on recreational spearfishing and then go order seafood from a store or restaurant......:rcard
I think if they are well planned and organized they are a great opportunity for spearfishermen to organize, fundraise and just have a good ol' time.
We all know that our method of fishing is the most eco friendly way and that any rational person who takes the time to learn about the facts will see that as well. I think small bag limits are a good idea. As for the people that will hate on recreational spearfishing and then go order seafood from a store or restaurant......:rcard
Sorry Clive.
Bryn Spencer
Right that’s it now I know your name I’m going to come down there with my biggest stick and I’m gonna………………..hehehe
Clive nice to see your still around and Bryn I’ll see you at the weekend.
Paul Rogers.
I reckon that if you arn't going to eat it, dont shoot it.
I live and spear in the far West of Cornwall, usually either alone or with one other person. What the BSA does or doesnt do wont affect me, I'm not a member and I dont really care.
I dont want to sound harsh but very often governing bodies of sports seem to spend all of their time arguing with each other - the debacle that is the British Surfing Association is a good example.
How about changing the rules of the comps? The fishermen near me have fortnightly competition in the summer where there is different target species each time, and the biggest single fish wins. Minimal by-catch and everyone goes to the pub.
I live and spear in the far West of Cornwall, usually either alone or with one other person. What the BSA does or doesnt do wont affect me, I'm not a member and I dont really care.
I dont want to sound harsh but very often governing bodies of sports seem to spend all of their time arguing with each other - the debacle that is the British Surfing Association is a good example.
How about changing the rules of the comps? The fishermen near me have fortnightly competition in the summer where there is different target species each time, and the biggest single fish wins. Minimal by-catch and everyone goes to the pub.
Right that’s it now I know your name I’m going to come down there with my biggest stick and I’m gonna………………..hehehe
Clive nice to see your still around and Bryn I’ll see you at the weekend.
Paul Rogers.
Sounds good mate, I recon it could be a fishy weekend if the wind stays down!
Clive nice to see your still around and Bryn I’ll see you at the weekend.
Paul Rogers.
Sounds good mate, I recon it could be a fishy weekend if the wind stays down!
hi guys,
its partly true in which ever one says that the BSA wont affect them but that is really not so, the BSA our the people who in political eyes represent us and as such there actions either it being for the greater good or the bad will affect us in some way, i don't compete and wont compete in comps because i cant stand to see something beautiful dead for the sakes of brownie points, i loved this sport from the start (only back in may) when i first got in to it and only saw pictures of anything up to 6 fish or a couple of large fish and that made me happy to think that conservation was a key process in what we do as spear o's but up until recently when i saw some pictures posted by another member on this site of comps and i was disgusted by what i saw, in 1 picture i counted 21 sea bass in a array of size's, this really did shake the boat, i could only eat half of that in 1 year, i think if i would have viewed the pictures like this back in may i would have just kept rod fishing, at no point back therein may did i see any pictures that showed a comp weigh in just people catching a few fish and being happy not even on the BSA web site is there any pics like that, which could posse the question as to why there is none?
finally i don't wont to see an end to comps just a change in format and the post that old man Dave put up is well thought out if anything that would push us all to learn new tricks,,
I have a wedding the weekend before the AGM so i have to take 4 days off work to prep up and shop for it, so if i can get cover i will be more than happy to join the BSA at the AGM not as a member of the BSA but as someone who cares about the future of the sport, i think its time that those who have comments to change the way things our dealt with at comps should do there best to attend and voice your opinions to them, I'm sure this thread and the ones on the BSA forums will be considered but being there in person will have a greater affect upon any decisions made,
thank you for reading
Benjamin Ford
its partly true in which ever one says that the BSA wont affect them but that is really not so, the BSA our the people who in political eyes represent us and as such there actions either it being for the greater good or the bad will affect us in some way, i don't compete and wont compete in comps because i cant stand to see something beautiful dead for the sakes of brownie points, i loved this sport from the start (only back in may) when i first got in to it and only saw pictures of anything up to 6 fish or a couple of large fish and that made me happy to think that conservation was a key process in what we do as spear o's but up until recently when i saw some pictures posted by another member on this site of comps and i was disgusted by what i saw, in 1 picture i counted 21 sea bass in a array of size's, this really did shake the boat, i could only eat half of that in 1 year, i think if i would have viewed the pictures like this back in may i would have just kept rod fishing, at no point back therein may did i see any pictures that showed a comp weigh in just people catching a few fish and being happy not even on the BSA web site is there any pics like that, which could posse the question as to why there is none?
finally i don't wont to see an end to comps just a change in format and the post that old man Dave put up is well thought out if anything that would push us all to learn new tricks,,
I have a wedding the weekend before the AGM so i have to take 4 days off work to prep up and shop for it, so if i can get cover i will be more than happy to join the BSA at the AGM not as a member of the BSA but as someone who cares about the future of the sport, i think its time that those who have comments to change the way things our dealt with at comps should do there best to attend and voice your opinions to them, I'm sure this thread and the ones on the BSA forums will be considered but being there in person will have a greater affect upon any decisions made,
thank you for reading
Benjamin Ford
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Now that everything has quieted down a bit I think Ill have my say too.
Honestly I like the whole competition scene of spearfishing, but I live in SA so it mite be different here. It gives you a chance to dive with others and learn from them also, it also allows you to dive in places where you dont normally dive and as an added bonus the prizes are normally pretty cool
When diving a comp we are only allowed to weigh in two fish of a specie with a maximum of ten fish, if you weigh in a undersized fish you get disqualified, sometimes for the rest of the year. Also most fish except one or two species needs to be over a kilo to count so we shoot larger than the size limits. Different fish having different behaviour allows that one particular spot doesnt get emtied out and you get the experience of hunting different species in one day. We normally have our weight in at the clubhouse but its open to all who wants to come and see and then have a few beers afterward. O and did I say the prizes are cool.
In the UK it might be a different ballgame alltogether though with the few species you guys have. But actually not, you have triggerfish, JohnDory, flatfish species, bass, pollock and a few more I think, so theres your five species equalling ten fish if you take two of each. 1 point for the species and no more than 4 points for total weight of two fish together or something like that. No way all the guys diving will fill a full comp quota in one day so you wont have so many fish taken...
O and another thing, maybe it wont be such a bad idea to let the guys at the BSA know how you feel, change wont start if nobody does anything to make a change
Honestly I like the whole competition scene of spearfishing, but I live in SA so it mite be different here. It gives you a chance to dive with others and learn from them also, it also allows you to dive in places where you dont normally dive and as an added bonus the prizes are normally pretty cool
When diving a comp we are only allowed to weigh in two fish of a specie with a maximum of ten fish, if you weigh in a undersized fish you get disqualified, sometimes for the rest of the year. Also most fish except one or two species needs to be over a kilo to count so we shoot larger than the size limits. Different fish having different behaviour allows that one particular spot doesnt get emtied out and you get the experience of hunting different species in one day. We normally have our weight in at the clubhouse but its open to all who wants to come and see and then have a few beers afterward. O and did I say the prizes are cool
.In the UK it might be a different ballgame alltogether though with the few species you guys have. But actually not, you have triggerfish, JohnDory, flatfish species, bass, pollock and a few more I think, so theres your five species equalling ten fish if you take two of each. 1 point for the species and no more than 4 points for total weight of two fish together or something like that. No way all the guys diving will fill a full comp quota in one day so you wont have so many fish taken...
O and another thing, maybe it wont be such a bad idea to let the guys at the BSA know how you feel, change wont start if nobody does anything to make a change
i witnesed a weigh in at south milton sands, Thurlstone, south devon approx 3 years ago. the worst public relations nightmare ever. 2 weeks of letters to the local paper, petition to the National trust (owners car park) wanting a ban on spearfishing comps. im sorry but it was mindless, i saw two competitors get out of the water at broadsands and walked 3/4 mile back to the car park, one bloke could hardly carry his keep bag, it was full of mostly rass and small pollock. it was a very busy beach day, people were booing them. this can not be a positive example of british spearfishing to the public.
Can any pro comp spearo possibly need more convincing that comps are totally indefensible. It appears that any pro comp spearo simply posts that he is fed up with the bickering and states he no longer wishes to post.
It's not bickering...it's debate.
I have no idea who "grunter" is but his description of the competition at Thurlestone is inaccurate. Firstly, Wrasse has not been a take species in competitions for at least 8/9 years. Secondly, how can you possibly tell the size of a fish inside a mesh bag? Thirdly, I walked along the coastal path and heard no "booing from the public" at any competition.
I go back to my original point Robbo reasoned debate requires objective facts not subjective, hysterical language; it does not help anybody. I have not read any firm facts or opinion that can be backed up by the anti-competition group on this forum; in terms of public opinion, local impact of fish stocks, the numbers of fish taken.
Most spearo's do not catch at all or very few fish during a competition. It's only the top 20% of spearo's that may have larger catches i.e. 8 divers out of 40 on the day. Most of us enjoy meeting up with like minded people who enjoy spearfishing, mostly engaging in discussions about equipment and a bit of banter between the clubs. On another point 40 to 50 active competitive spearo’s in the UK, that’s all! There are 600, 000 registered spearo’s in France; you may have a valid argument if we had a similar situation here. Of course we don't, competitive spearfishing in the UK is a fringe sport in the extreme.
If you guys want a revolution in UK spearfishing you have two possible courses of action:
1. Demonstrate at each national competition with banners and possibly chain yourselves to the safety boats.
2. Join the BSA, hand in your proposals and have your vote. Democracy is a wonderful thing.
For your information, so everyone is aware I am going to place a proposal to the DB webmaster to request that all forum users have to give their full names in their public profiles. This will give more transparency within the forum, so we all have a better idea who we are talking too.
No doubt guys, we will continue to agree to disagree on this particular issue regarding competitions.
Enjoy the weekend; it may be the best opportunity for a while before everything is put away for the winter.
Cheers
Paul
I go back to my original point Robbo reasoned debate requires objective facts not subjective, hysterical language; it does not help anybody. I have not read any firm facts or opinion that can be backed up by the anti-competition group on this forum; in terms of public opinion, local impact of fish stocks, the numbers of fish taken.
Most spearo's do not catch at all or very few fish during a competition. It's only the top 20% of spearo's that may have larger catches i.e. 8 divers out of 40 on the day. Most of us enjoy meeting up with like minded people who enjoy spearfishing, mostly engaging in discussions about equipment and a bit of banter between the clubs. On another point 40 to 50 active competitive spearo’s in the UK, that’s all! There are 600, 000 registered spearo’s in France; you may have a valid argument if we had a similar situation here. Of course we don't, competitive spearfishing in the UK is a fringe sport in the extreme.
If you guys want a revolution in UK spearfishing you have two possible courses of action:
1. Demonstrate at each national competition with banners and possibly chain yourselves to the safety boats.
2. Join the BSA, hand in your proposals and have your vote. Democracy is a wonderful thing.
For your information, so everyone is aware I am going to place a proposal to the DB webmaster to request that all forum users have to give their full names in their public profiles. This will give more transparency within the forum, so we all have a better idea who we are talking too.
No doubt guys, we will continue to agree to disagree on this particular issue regarding competitions.
Enjoy the weekend; it may be the best opportunity for a while before everything is put away for the winter.
Cheers
Paul
With the greatest respect, you must have a very strange idea of debate.
If your starting point is that our views are "totally indefensible", I'm afraid that any debate with you is hopeless.
Debate is for the open minded who leaves emotions out of the room, who is not conditioned by "what the people will think", who has the good disposition, if convinced, to eventually change his mind. Debate must be rational and open, not emotional and prejudicial.
Give to us pro-comps a 1% of hope that you're open to partly and eventually change your opinion after hearing our views, and we'll debate.
Robbo66, I know you're just trying to defend spearfishing from public attacks and "bad press", I appreciate that and have nothing against you. But I'm afraid that, against your own intention, this anti-comps campaign is doing more harm than help to the public image of spearfishing in general, as I already explained in previous posts.
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I agree, I had been on the fence when I first got into spearing, but seem to now side towards comps. However, I see little point in engaging the topic properly here - at the moment. There are certain people that continually post on this topic whenever it comes up, and seem to aggressively make clear that competitions are just WRONG, plain and simple, and no matter what gets said they just 'aint gunna budge from that point of view. This is what winds me up to the point of despair.
As has already been said, leave the hyperbole and blinkers at the door and perhaps there is a reason to bother posting here.
Huw.
perhaps a revamp of the way competitions are held?
i know i've heard sunfish mention something like that before, such as one or two fish per competitor, largest wins, cuts out shooting the small stuff.
although i don't think we should get our nickers in a twist about spearo competitions wiping out fish stocks, because the comercial fisheries are doing a good job of that already.
i've worked on comercial vessels, and believe me, the level of by-catch which goes back dead is phenomenal.
also, this could create underground competitions, where people in the know just happen to be spearing in the same area on the same day for the same length of time.
and that's only going to create secrecy and distrust.
forgot to say, competition as i understand they are held now is not my cup of tea, but i wouldn't be prejudiced against anyone who does compete.
for comps like single fish per competitor, or two fish per competitor, i could see myself competing in.
i know i've heard sunfish mention something like that before, such as one or two fish per competitor, largest wins, cuts out shooting the small stuff.
although i don't think we should get our nickers in a twist about spearo competitions wiping out fish stocks, because the comercial fisheries are doing a good job of that already.
i've worked on comercial vessels, and believe me, the level of by-catch which goes back dead is phenomenal.
also, this could create underground competitions, where people in the know just happen to be spearing in the same area on the same day for the same length of time.
and that's only going to create secrecy and distrust.
forgot to say, competition as i understand they are held now is not my cup of tea, but i wouldn't be prejudiced against anyone who does compete.
for comps like single fish per competitor, or two fish per competitor, i could see myself competing in.
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