Torch - anybody use a torch for spearing?

[billythefish]

My friend has just shown me his new bicycle light, 400hl by cateye.
seems bright enough, water proof to 50m and small and light. also has perfect fitment and adjustment for most speargun tubes.
wiggle are selling them or the new 410 version for about £30 free delivery!
not tried it yet but will have a go soon and can cycle home with it to!

 

[Mr. X]

Speaking of such things, anyone got some good suggestions for a light to mount under the muzzle of a dedicated cave gun? I'm envisioning poking the tip into the cave and turning on the light wwhile my finger tightens on the trigger should something big appear in the glare.

I think Chad Carney, already in this thread, sells torch holders for spearguns. Of course, there is always "universal fixer": gaffer tape (AmE. Duct tape)! Cable ties? Araldite? (hey, you said dedicated)

 

[Azure]

Hi, first proper post

About 3 pages back someone [mr x I think?] was enquiring as to red lights usefulness compared to blue light that travels further in water.

Having done a pretty boring science course and a more fun one with the OU "life in the oceans", what happens is that most wavelengths of light cannot penetrate far into the water except for the nm around the blue wave lengths. Other colours are just absorbed pretty damned fast and IIRC the worst one is red.

So whilst you are correct saying that a blue light would travel further - the benefit would be lost. A LOT of fish [dont know if the spearo food species make this list] are very insensitive/blind to red light, as far as they are concerned it doesn't exist because as mentioned before, it cannot make it deeper than 2m or something.

Red light from a torch would penetrate less directly than a white/Blue light - logically only about 2-4m of penetration depending on the lux - but the fish that are in the red beam will not be bothered by it at all, or very little, unless they can specially see it.

[Random fact time. A lot of the deep sea creatures are red in appearence because there is never any red light reaching down there, this ensures they remain black as there is no red light to reflect off them. One species of deep sea fish CAN see red and hunts by emitting red wavelength light onto its prey - which unfortunately sees nothing whatsoever whilst the snapping teeth come towards it]

EDIT:> After swotting on my papers red light penetration is at 50% at a depth of just 2m, 25% at 3m, 10% at 6.5m and 5% at 10m. Red light sucks Infra-red along it's whole spectrum cannot penetrate beyond 1m!

 

[Oldsarge]

I checked out the cateye on the web. Nice! I think a trip to my local bike shop is in order.

 

[Mr. X]

Hi Azure, I don't think it was me that asked about coloured light. Although a diver friend already suggest blue to me. If fish are insensitive to to red & it appears black to them, I wonder why red head lures are so popular & why lures often have a red patch under the throat (& sometimes around the gills & anus)? Perhaps at close range some predatory fish have some sensitivity to red (or maybe it is just down to the high contrast of "black" against white)....or maybe it attracts fishermen more!

 

[Mr. X]

There was a big court case a year or so ago and some of the big electronics firms were complaining about 7day shop.
I think VAT is payable on items over 20 pounds or some figure like that.

Heard a news article on BBC Radio 4 a couple of weeks ago. Sounds like the Channel Islands are thinking of kicking out some of the big companies (like Tesco?) that are selling CDs over the internet from there to avoid paying VAT. It sounds like they don't want the government hassle & huge warehouses, & are wondering if the jobs created are not as good as they could get. Even from the Channel Islands, CD prices seem extremely high in the UK.

 

[schlegs]

I was just shopping for dive lights today in a local dive shop - what an absolute ripoff! Some of the ones w/the necessary lumens/candlepower were over $100. Canx'd my lobster dinner plans for tonight. BUT...

I think that Cateye mentioned earlier is the key (thanks Will). The new model (HL EL 410) is "60%" brighter (180 candlepower), less than 3oz and 4", 30hrs on 4xAAs, has a swivel mount (Mr. X, for you), waterproof to 50m, and $32 here: http://www.bikesomewhere.com/bikesomewhere.cfm/product/36/184/9734?g=1

 

[Wanny]

mmmm, those cateye look good and as a mountain biker as well they have 2 uses! the EL530 looks better - 1500 candle power vs 180 on the 410 and only an extra £15. it also seems to have the magnetic switch and is waterproof but doesn't make any 50m claims. any one know more?

BTW on the VAT thing, goods imported to the UK under £18 don't have VAT applied by UK tax man as it would be impractical otherwise. also when EU companies sell them outside the EU they don't have to charge VAT either. So a jsy co buys them from the uk vat free, gets an order from a uk customer and sells them the cd/dvd/contacts lense/battery etc etc vat free. makes a big differnence on low cost, low margin products.

We are a bit of heat on this from various bodies in the UK so the proposal is that established businesses here can carry on (eg if they have their own staff, premises etc). Others (eg tesco) outsource their operation to the local post office so have no real presence here, all the post office do is get parcels in, repack them and send them back. They will stop this from happening and close these down.

Play.com are next door to where I work and there are always big containers going in and out, their turnover is enormous.

 

[Huw]

Hiya guys,

I too am really really curious about dive lights.

I will be using them for nighttime spearing. I already think that i shall buy the same one as mr X ( the one that fixes to the mask ... the little green one)

But then i will also need another light, which i presume would be better fixed onto the gun. Where can i buy a torch and mount for my gun? What are the techniques for night fishing? And comments from night hunters with experience would be great. If it helps i am using a seatec Gabbiano 90cm. The main issue i think is that maybe a torch on the muzzle may get in the way of the line release?! Do you think that there will be a problem if i fix it to the reel mount just infront of the trigger guard?

Cheers,
Huw

 

[Mr. X]

... and only an extra £15...

More than £5 seems a lot for a torch to me (admittedly I have 4 special use ones that cost more than that - favourite: a 20 year old Petzl headtorch with new headband & halogen bulb)...so an extra £15 ($30) seems a large increase to me.

BTW Some feedback on my Omer Moonlight Elite torch. I think there are a few things about it which are suboptimal: (1) it is pretty heavy and (2) unbalanced such that it wants to fall out of your hand forwards*, because of the heavy the metal & glass head (the cheaper non-elite model may be better in both regards, as it has a plastic head & lens). Also, I don't trust the plastic lanyard that it comes with to hold the weight of the torch. So I tend to keep the torch in my hand or, more often, leave it on-shore, rather than hanging from my float; again for the lighter non-elite version, it might not be an issue. (Anybody using the Omer torches care to comment from their own experiences?).

BTW Somebody told me they just went to post a parcel today and it cost almost £5 with the new UK postal rates - a huge increase:rcard . Yet another Stealth Tax . I think it might kill a lot eBay.co.uk activity in the UK (perhaps the govts. intention?) & on-line business that need to ship from with in the UK .:naughty [Might make the USA site, eBay.com, shipping prices more attractive though rofl].

*Read an article by Sykes & Fairbairn that made a similar observation about knives, best not to get ones that are too front (blade) heavy, because they have a natural tendency to fall from your hand.

 

[trux]

Although I do not spearfish, I do night freedives, so this topic interests me too. However, please be aware that spearfishing with a torch is illegal in some countries, and in others is considered unfair, and may bring you into troubles with local authorities or fishers. For example, I believe just here in France torches are illegal for spearing (at least that's what I heard from a fellow spereo).

 

[poacher]

I used a torch once spearing in the Philippines it was just a cheap waterproof torch using 2 Dcell batteries the local guys said they will leak without some mods so it had a piece of bicycle tube fitted over the switch and tied tighter with some thin trips of the tube. it worked OK we saw some small fish and I had some fun chasing a beautiful banded sea snake which had the local guys stressing out a bit. the problem with the torch was it was a push button switch and when I got to about 8m or so on a dive under a wharf it turned off this had me a bit concerned as i was afraid of hitting the barnacle encrusted pylons on the way up in the dark at about 3m it turned itself back on. Moral of the Story -Maybe best to stick to proper dive torches guys.

 

[ediverudt]

Basic fact Fish for the most part are attracted to light. Fish that art are usually sleeping or what ever it is they do. Both of these are really easy targets.

The best I have ever found is from nocturnal lights (Nocturniallights.com)
they make extremely bright small and easy to mount lights.
That said
spear fishing at night with a light is a bout as ethical as hunting for Deer with spotlights. I can make myself feel a little better about it when I remember that all the fisherman down gear use nets.

 

[Oldsarge]

Still, a torch is useful even in the daytime, if you're prowling the reef and want to look into a cave. That's sort of the equivilant of using a scope to extend your hunting into the twilight.

 

[poacher]

Not in NSW Australia sarge our fisheries dept. has banned the use of any artificial light for spearing fish- we can and do however use torches to find lobsers in holes helps find some you would not otherwise.
The torch i have just bought is a pelican sabrelite 2000. Has anyone got any opinions on these?

Peter

 

[Mr. X]

Omer Moonlight (regular model)

... Some feedback on my Omer Moonlight Elite torch. I think there are a few things about it which are suboptimal: (1) it is pretty heavy and (2) unbalanced such that it wants to fall out of your hand forwards*, because of the heavy metal & glass head (the cheaper non-elite model may be better in both regards, as it has a plastic head & lens). Also, I don't trust the plastic lanyard that it comes with to hold the weight of the torch. So I tend to keep the torch in my hand or, more often, leave it on-shore, rather than hanging from my float; again for the lighter non-elite version, it might not be an issue. (Anybody using the Omer torches care to comment from their own experiences?).
...
*Read an article by Sykes & Fairbairn that made a similar observation about knives, best not to get ones that are too front (blade) heavy, because they have a natural tendency to fall from your hand.

Time for an update.

I lost my Omer Moonlight Elite on holiday. I don't think the lanyard broke (my original concern), more likely the rubber stopper slipped loose under the considerable weight of the torch (as it had done twice on the way back).

Anyway, Lidl's didn't have any dive torches, but I managed to get a regular Omer Moonlight torch for a v. reasonable price (much less than RRP). Although the cheaper construction is apparent & the spec. says it is less bright (actually seems whiter & brighter to me -- perhaps just the new batteries or a more modern bulb?). This model might be better suited to spearing.

Here are some observations:

- handle & switch are the same (the auto-off spring is missing from my new torch - might be a better way to use it)

- same 6xAA battery configuration

- the regular Moonlight has no electronic circuit board (regulator?) under the switch, as the Elite has. The Elite has a higher light rating, I think they use a higher wattage bulb at a lower voltage than its rating to get more light than the regular model produces (something like that).

- main difference: the regular model is significantly lighter weight overall and is not front heavy. It is much better balanced in the hand. The weight reduction appears to be due to the use of an angular plastic reflector, plain plastic lens and tough plastic head - rather than a smooth glass reflector, glass lens & heavy metal head (which I suspect helps keep the electrics & bulb cool as well as making it very robust).

- the regular model (perhaps newer) has two raised areas on the lanyard which is otherwise the same. Not sure what the purpose is -- perhaps to stop it coming fully loose so easily (good idea!).

- the cheaper regular model comes in a neat plastic case (like a mini mask box) with room for 6 spare batteries & 2 spare bulbs (not present!). Very neat. My Omer Moonlight Elite came in an Omer Cardboard box (as did my Omer mask)! Come on Omer -- more nice plastic boxes, please! (My Combat mask came with a proper size mask box and was considerably cheaper).

So, while gutted by the loss of my Omer Moonlight Elite, I am happy with my scallops and look forward to diving with the regular Omer Moonlight, which looks like it will be "the biz".

 

[spaghetti]

Mr.X I had a torch like that and worked well until it sustained a lethal injury. Let me tell you the story as a reminder.
The first time I changed the batteries, I think I didn't close/seal it right. So that during the following dive it leaked a bit, I didn't notice the water in, so I went home and left it flooded in the bag. After days I found the circuit totally "fried" (oxydated) by the salty water left inside. So take care of this: always check it's "screwed" and sealed properly, the O-ring to be in the right position and everything. An extra-caution (surely not necessary, though...) could be an extra "seal" with some waterproof sticky tape on the outside all around the "line" where you screw the "cap" to the "body" of the torch.
(sorry for all those "...", but I ignore the proper terms in english. But I'm sure you understand what I mean, especially when I say they must be properly screwed rofl)

 

[strangelove]

That omer flashlight looks really good, for us here in U.S. perharps not every one is aware of this (I was not early this year), the princeton tech have a life time warranty, no questions asked. I've broke my while replacing the batteries on the boat, I've called them told them what I did, but they sent me a new one with no sweat.

I've probably broke 3 or 4 UK dive lights just because of being slopy and not removing the batteries after the dive, but the UK do not have a life time warranty, now I only buy princetontechs.

 

[Mr. X]

Your English is fine Spaghetti. When the new torch arrived the O-ring was mangled & out of place. Fortunately a diver friend warned me some time ago to always lube the O-ring, which I have already done with gylcerol (glycerine) - alternatively silicone can be used. It tends to keep it plumped up & in place (resists being dragged or deformed).

I leave the batteries in after diving & just check them periodically. I'm surprised they don't double seal the dive torches.

You might be able to add an extra seal using the ulta-thin PTFE plumbing tape on the threads of the torch -- I doubt if it would work though.

 

[spaghetti]

For sure Mr. X you take care of your gear better than I do: in this sense I'm a complete dick (or "dick"). Otherwise I might say I'm particularily unlucky with torches. Also my new Technisub Lumen IV doesn't work right any more: the lamp lights up only if I bash it hard against a rock (and this trick too doesn't always work...).
Maybe taking away the batteries after use could have been a good option for saving the life of my previous Omer Moonlight, but I tend to be too lazy for this. And that's why I'm not doing much hole spearing lately....