(thanx simo, I think the "anonymous" 1st-post-writer knows this...)
Back to the topic!
Can you describe your experiences?
Back to the topic!
Can you describe your experiences?
-
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Training diary for 81m CWNF
- Thread starterWill
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Billextreme said:
Hi Bill
I've just read the example dive to 91m and back to the surface for a nice breath of fresh air. My question is easy to make, but harder to give a answer to.
What are the quality/capacity for a diver to even make half that deepth.
I'll gladlly look forward to a reply about this,from any of your guys, not just Bill. Wolle maybe you have any good insights about this matter since you have done many dives over 60m
Input from you all is very appreciated.
Have a great weekend
Flojt
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Daniel. Easy answer.
THE LACK OF A MIND BARRIER
If you think it is hard to dive to 45-50 - it sure will be. Freediving methods and training has come so far that 50 meter is not a deep dive - this is still amateur level.
Any half decent body, with normal ears can do 50 meters. As in other sports it is just about training. Some people go into the sea - dive to 28 - fails to equalize - and conclude that that was the end of their "freediving career".
Do your static, do your walking apnea, do your dynamics, do your negatives, learn the frenzel, focus on your relaxation, and do the dives - many - 45-50 will soon come. But only if you have the rope, the lanyard, the depth and the buddy - without a feeling of safety you get nowhere.
I did a PB to about 60 with Bill as safety once - partly because I borrowed a monofin, but mainly because I was diving with a safety that knew what it was all about. Dive with deep people and you yourself will go deep!
"Move the glass barrier" as Kirk says.
http://www.fridykning.se/freediving/features/kirk.html
Or to quote Umberto:
"let go of the handbrake".
Sebastian
See you down there
THE LACK OF A MIND BARRIER
If you think it is hard to dive to 45-50 - it sure will be. Freediving methods and training has come so far that 50 meter is not a deep dive - this is still amateur level.
Any half decent body, with normal ears can do 50 meters. As in other sports it is just about training. Some people go into the sea - dive to 28 - fails to equalize - and conclude that that was the end of their "freediving career".
Do your static, do your walking apnea, do your dynamics, do your negatives, learn the frenzel, focus on your relaxation, and do the dives - many - 45-50 will soon come. But only if you have the rope, the lanyard, the depth and the buddy - without a feeling of safety you get nowhere.
I did a PB to about 60 with Bill as safety once - partly because I borrowed a monofin, but mainly because I was diving with a safety that knew what it was all about. Dive with deep people and you yourself will go deep!
"Move the glass barrier" as Kirk says.
http://www.fridykning.se/freediving/features/kirk.html
Or to quote Umberto:
"let go of the handbrake".
Sebastian
See you down there
I wrote that my experiences in area "7" were independent of the reached maximumdepht. I had the same experiences on area "7" as my maximum depht in cw was 50 m “only” .
(it is to stupidly always to change between two sites. For this reason here once again my message)
My assumption is that the muscular pain in area "7" is coming from the abolition of bloodshift (?) Who has similar experiences?
ps: all this does not have to do with the topic "81m" anything. but it began here. sorry!
(it is to stupidly always to change between two sites. For this reason here once again my message)
wolleneugebauer said:
My assumption is that the muscular pain in area "7" is coming from the abolition of bloodshift (?) Who has similar experiences?
ps: all this does not have to do with the topic "81m" anything. but it began here. sorry!
Wolle,
You can only rush the last 30 m if you know that the dive response is maintained from what it was at depth. We know that this is not the case when diving on full lungs due to the lung expansion vasodepressor reflex.
Muscular pain is an indication of blood shift => muscular pain due to a shift from aerobic to anaerobic metabolism due to abscence of O2. On my deep dives I feel fatigue from maximum depth all the way to the surface...of course it gets progressively worse and my technique deteriorates accordingly. The pain or fatigue is, however, very localized, i.e., in the muscles (primarily the locomotors) and I have no urge to breathe. Of course when you surface and begin to breathe the dive response is completely lost and waste products associated with muscle exertion re-enter the central circulation, resulting in a copious production of CO2 and the feeling out of breath. Typically this occurs immediately with F-dives but is delayed by as much as 20" after surfacing if the dive response is maintained, as with E-dives (depending on the individual's dive response).
If you undertake a max or close to max dive and you feel no or little muscle fatigue you are deluding yourself if you think your doing it easy: your muscles are robbing you of O2 to such an extent that a BO is only around the corner...except that you are not aware of it! Indeed, we know that the hypoxic reserve margin decreases with work intensity. You may actually have no urge to breathe because CO2 is very soluble in well perfused muscle tissue. Things get worse the more your lungs expand and the more quickly they do so. Indeed, your (cerebral) tolerance to hypoxia is also reduced. All this is easily explained by a progressive reversal/weakening of the protective effects of the dive response during ascent. This reversal, I'm sorry to say again and again, essentially only occurs when diving on full lungs (F-dives).
Seb
You can only rush the last 30 m if you know that the dive response is maintained from what it was at depth. We know that this is not the case when diving on full lungs due to the lung expansion vasodepressor reflex.
Muscular pain is an indication of blood shift => muscular pain due to a shift from aerobic to anaerobic metabolism due to abscence of O2. On my deep dives I feel fatigue from maximum depth all the way to the surface...of course it gets progressively worse and my technique deteriorates accordingly. The pain or fatigue is, however, very localized, i.e., in the muscles (primarily the locomotors) and I have no urge to breathe. Of course when you surface and begin to breathe the dive response is completely lost and waste products associated with muscle exertion re-enter the central circulation, resulting in a copious production of CO2 and the feeling out of breath. Typically this occurs immediately with F-dives but is delayed by as much as 20" after surfacing if the dive response is maintained, as with E-dives (depending on the individual's dive response).
If you undertake a max or close to max dive and you feel no or little muscle fatigue you are deluding yourself if you think your doing it easy: your muscles are robbing you of O2 to such an extent that a BO is only around the corner...except that you are not aware of it! Indeed, we know that the hypoxic reserve margin decreases with work intensity. You may actually have no urge to breathe because CO2 is very soluble in well perfused muscle tissue. Things get worse the more your lungs expand and the more quickly they do so. Indeed, your (cerebral) tolerance to hypoxia is also reduced. All this is easily explained by a progressive reversal/weakening of the protective effects of the dive response during ascent. This reversal, I'm sorry to say again and again, essentially only occurs when diving on full lungs (F-dives).
Seb
What we "FEEL" is very subjective and based on our awareness. For many people most of the dive is a "blank", even a no-mind state.
If I do 95% of maximum capability in CNF I feel (not pain) but strain and numbness in the active muscles (torso, thighs, calves, triceps) on the last part of ascent. I believe it is lactic acid.
Can one do a MAXIMUM dive without lactic acid? I would say no - then it is not maximum.
A reshift od bloodshift is an intresting theory. Wouldnt that mean that "better" blood returns to the vasoconstricted limbs?
Does anyone know how fast bloodshift go away. I have heard (contrary to my own belief) that is goes away before you reach the surface. But I have a theory that full TLC+packing+reduced lung volume due to bloodshift - can cause overpressurization and internal damage - specially when linked to heavy contractions.
Sebastian
PS. I think it is nice when a thread evolves. We are still disucussing how to handle maximum dives (at what ever level they occur).
If I do 95% of maximum capability in CNF I feel (not pain) but strain and numbness in the active muscles (torso, thighs, calves, triceps) on the last part of ascent. I believe it is lactic acid.
Can one do a MAXIMUM dive without lactic acid? I would say no - then it is not maximum.
A reshift od bloodshift is an intresting theory. Wouldnt that mean that "better" blood returns to the vasoconstricted limbs?
Does anyone know how fast bloodshift go away. I have heard (contrary to my own belief) that is goes away before you reach the surface. But I have a theory that full TLC+packing+reduced lung volume due to bloodshift - can cause overpressurization and internal damage - specially when linked to heavy contractions.
Sebastian
PS. I think it is nice when a thread evolves. We are still disucussing how to handle maximum dives (at what ever level they occur).
cebaztian said:
Thanx Sebastian
Well I hope that I someday soon will see you down there.
This topic have evolved, and me personally have found the comments on deep diving very usefull and intresting. Thnax Will for leting us in on the prep for the big plunge, it's been most inspiring.
So thanx to SEb and you all, I'll be spending the winter doing static, walking apnea, dynamics, and negatives in a 4m pool, and learn how to manage the frenzel, focus on relaxation, and hopefully in the late spring our team can do many dives - and soon reach - 45-50.
Any suggestions for the Dynamics ?
Have a great weekend.
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Different strokes for different folks:
Some people have poor dive responses, consequently there is little peripheral vasoconstriction and thus little muscular fatigue/switch to anaerobic metabolism. These individuals have untapped latent potential (genetics aside). Othere have a omnipotent dive response, and these individuals experience extreme muscular fatigue. However, it is possible with the correctly applied training to develop MbO2 stores to delay and buffer this fatigue so that with time fatigue is reduced but not totally.
The reversal in blood shift is reflexly invoked, i.e., immediate, but not necessarily completely reversed since initial lung volume does not
= end dive lung volume. The degree of reversal depends on the initial lung volume and rate of decompression (and a number of other factors).
A loss of the dive response promotes recovery en route, and, thereofre, ideal for serial (aerobic) dives but detrimental for extreme dives which hinge on maintaining cerebral integrity.
Seb
Some people have poor dive responses, consequently there is little peripheral vasoconstriction and thus little muscular fatigue/switch to anaerobic metabolism. These individuals have untapped latent potential (genetics aside). Othere have a omnipotent dive response, and these individuals experience extreme muscular fatigue. However, it is possible with the correctly applied training to develop MbO2 stores to delay and buffer this fatigue so that with time fatigue is reduced but not totally.
The reversal in blood shift is reflexly invoked, i.e., immediate, but not necessarily completely reversed since initial lung volume does not
= end dive lung volume. The degree of reversal depends on the initial lung volume and rate of decompression (and a number of other factors).
A loss of the dive response promotes recovery en route, and, thereofre, ideal for serial (aerobic) dives but detrimental for extreme dives which hinge on maintaining cerebral integrity.
Seb
Hi folks 
I just went to the aida-international page, and it seems that Will is giving another try on the 12th of december. Have a Look at: calendar > record attempts
Christophe
I just went to the aida-international page, and it seems that Will is giving another try on the 12th of december. Have a Look at: calendar > record attempts
Christophe
hmm, seems like i should relearn to read sometime :head
Anyway, I did not expect so much competition in this discipline. 80m dives in no- fins seems to be a pretty tough challenge! Hopefully we will get news on this record attempt too
Christophe
Anyway, I did not expect so much competition in this discipline. 80m dives in no- fins seems to be a pretty tough challenge! Hopefully we will get news on this record attempt too
Christophe
William will going again!
Record Attempt by William Trubridge
2007-04-07
Name: William Trubridge
Place: Dean’s Blue Hole, Long Island Bahamas
Discipline: CNF
Attempted perf: 81m +
Pre requisites: 78m + (done)
The record attempt will be done between 7th and 14th of April - 2007
Subject: Record Attempts
http://www.hotweb.se/aspportal1/code/page.asp?CalendarID=176&CountryID=4&actID=3&ObjectID=140
GO WILL GO!!!
Record Attempt by William Trubridge
2007-04-07
Name: William Trubridge
Place: Dean’s Blue Hole, Long Island Bahamas
Discipline: CNF
Attempted perf: 81m +
Pre requisites: 78m + (done)
The record attempt will be done between 7th and 14th of April - 2007
Subject: Record Attempts
http://www.hotweb.se/aspportal1/code/page.asp?CalendarID=176&CountryID=4&actID=3&ObjectID=140
GO WILL GO!!!
Good luck Will. I hope your health and everything holds together and you can do yourself justice.
Home ground advantage - I expect we'll see a record fall here.
Things in Will's favour:
Familiar dive area, minimal change in conditions;
Better control over diet (same food in training & attempt, in Egypt diet was different in attempt);
Less external impact (no govt comandeering boats, accom etc);
More contingency time (last time Will's contingency days were all used up); and
More judge time (judges had to go home last time).
Good luck Will!
Things in Will's favour:
Familiar dive area, minimal change in conditions;
Better control over diet (same food in training & attempt, in Egypt diet was different in attempt);
Less external impact (no govt comandeering boats, accom etc);
More contingency time (last time Will's contingency days were all used up); and
More judge time (judges had to go home last time).
Good luck Will!
Hey all
Just as a primer, here are the photos from the last attempt in October, and also the one from May, just in case anyone has not seen them before:
May '06
October '06
I spoke to Will yesterday, and he is sounding very strong and confident, though battling with the fact that he might have to use a lanyard
No doubt he will post here at some point.
Bye bye
Mikey
Just as a primer, here are the photos from the last attempt in October, and also the one from May, just in case anyone has not seen them before:
May '06
October '06
I spoke to Will yesterday, and he is sounding very strong and confident, though battling with the fact that he might have to use a lanyard
No doubt he will post here at some point.
Bye bye
Mikey
