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Underwater fin surfing...

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
I too, have been following this thread (equally as interested in Jan Ploeg's experiences as well) and although I am still relatively new to BC, I am not new to monofinning or body surfing. Very cool stuff, my ear is definitly to the ground (as I personally don't have much time to travel this year either but will be visiting the coast mid August).
I'd come south to thaw out if its in January. That's the only time I can.
Isn't there mention of Laird subsurfing in a surfing video? I just saw Step Into Liquid and didn't see it? Anybody know where it is?
Hi Howard, i´m still waiting for a reply from all the interested parties to decide on a meeting date. stay tuned for an update. the vid showing laird subsurfing is either "TO" or "Laird" (not sure which anymore).
Hi all its in the Jack Mcoy movie toe you can buy it of his web site.Re Jack he is a good friend but he would not lift a camera without getting paid for it thats why I suggested a sponsor .IT SOUNDS LIKE EVERYONE ENCLUDING MYSELF IS IN MIXED EMOTION ABOUT PUMPING THE SPORT UP.The reality is to get amazing footage and the effort of all that. Requires Hi interest and bucks . Thats why I suggested a sponsor .If its just to have a fun get together and take some home movies it sounds good and i guess we just need to get accomodation prices and dates . If its to go further promoting products and building a cult sport I think its possible but would require alot of energy .I am really of either mind set . Noa do you want to spearhead a larger effort if you do I can help but I cant drive it.Do you have things you want to promote I do I would like to Promote my movie when its done .Heading for Exmouth again its cold here now I cant get excited about being underwater even though there has been swell Ken
I have been watching this thread for a while with some interest.
I have just shagged my shoulder and wont be able to paddle a board for a year or so but dont want to stay out of the surf.
I have surfed down south since i was a grommet and would love to get down there agian
Question is how do you get on with board riders, i know i used to treat boogie boarders as speed bumps, do you get dropped in on allot and is there breaks the suit sub surfing better.
I would mind getting into it after my shoulder gets better (summer time) and its a good excuse to head south, ( do some spearing as well ) but i might not enjoy it if there is agro in the water and we are just speed bumps.
How bad is it

Hi Crusty it is a blessing that alot of places that you can underwater surf are not good for surfing in general you are looking for spots that are really shallow and waves break straight across and go for along way over the reef or sandbank so close out sand banks that have on left or righthand wall are great as long as they go along way .I do go out a fair bit where there are surfers though and tend to take off way inside of them or far deeper over on reef breaks there again I go straight they go left or right so there is almost no conflict . In general all i have had is some occasional curiosity and friendlyness this also has been a huge bonus for this sport so far for me .The speed and body feeling you get makes surfing feel quite slow and in this sport you never sit around waiting for somthing to happen in between waves you can free dive around .Do you live here in wa as you mentioned down south city beach groeing and rotto island and coottesloe can all be real fun around the city if you live here we could go one time and i could fit you out with the gear i use Ken
Thanks Ken
Yep im up in Perth and would love to come down and get some waves with you, i should be fitt enough after my shoulder opp around xmas time so will take you up on your offer.
I do get some waves at City beach groyne the kids call me Dolphin man for obvious reasons.
What gear do you use. im useing a Land and sea sport full foot fin i find them more controllable than a long spearo fin,a wettie and swimm goggles.
Do you use any other equipment ??
Will keep in contact with this thread and drop you a PM when im close to coming down.

Hello Ken and all,
i have to be clear that i have no mixed emotions and i'm totaly convinced and comited to doing what it takes to get this sport promoted and moving. i have no experience in sporsorship transactions but loads of motivation, so with some guidance from Ken and whoever else wants to help i can make this happen. in regards to Mcoy i understand that a person of his calibre does not film just for the hell of it. on the other hand however, if this sport does develop one day, this meeting of ours will be of historic importance and the film maker who decides to film it and produce some sort of documentry will have in his hands something quite valuable. since Mcoy has already produced the subsurfing film Ken is in, i presume he has already seen the potential and decided it was worth his time and effort. in regards to finding a sponsor we first need to examine what media coverage we can offer them with this event and then see if we will seek a surf industry (a surfwear company is the obvious that springs to mind)or exterior sponsor. so i guess we need to approach potentialy interested press first, present the project, see what interest it generates and then take that to possible sponsors. from now on is where we need to get ideas rolling, so don't be shy guys. Ken, how probable is it having Rasta and Laird with us, even very briefly, as their names would also help convince the press ? As far as i go, i have nothing to presently promote, so Ken's movie could be our presentation tool which will in turn promote it also. i'm still waiting for Tom to get back in touch with us on the thread so we can start looking at accomodation options and also all the interested parties should let us know what date options between november to January suits them. so guys, don't let me down, if you want to be part of this give me all your possible info and of course help is always welcome.
Hey guys, there is a very good picture of a subsurfer at this website, I cant figure out how to post a pic, so I wil try my best to describe were the pic is on the site.

Go to the section sorta near the bottom that says "Other sports." The first picture on the second row in the "other sports" section is very nice picture.

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cool pic of Laird subing in Tahiti (i think). it gives me shivers looking at it, the feeling of shooting ahead with such a wave is amazing...
Noa sponsors like Redbull might be the go a good friend of mine Sunnie Miller is now shooting all Lairds stuff They where all just in fiji on a Shoot we could put it to those guys if we had a sponsor they might be able to help. I will e mail Sunnie with the idea thats the best avenue its great to here you have the juice to go the 9 all the way E me direct as I dont always check the thread Ken
I was first exposed to this through an early (80s, 90s?) issue of (bodyboarding magazine) Riptide. There was a picture of Mike Stewart and a caption to the effect of 'Mike Stewart [underwater surfing] inspecting the reef at teahupoo.' Or maybe my memory is failing me and I am combining two stories into one (according to http://www.surfline.com/surfaz/teahupoo.cfm he was one of the first (3 people) to surf that place).
Mike Stewart was leading the way in those days, he wrote about duckdiving when stuck inside. That was very interesting because he described a breaking wave as a series of diminishing n shapes and working against this a series of diminishing U shapes. These U shapes suck you out beyond the breaking waves (n shapes). Although I use this on a bodyboard I find with bodysurfing/underwater surfing you can get out the back with very little effort using this approach.

My experience:

1. I've never needed a mask (but I've not surfed huge waves but I have surfed very fast waves). When freediving I always use a mask so maybe this is just a learning habit (I learnt about freediving in a dive pool (chlorine) and underwater surf in the ocean).
2. Strong awareness of where I am in the wave (I don't feel lost or out of control or close to hitting the reef)
3. Wary of surfers because you're invisible even when you're visible. I'm more wary of surfers paddling out (duckdiving through the wave you're on) than surfers dropping in
4. Ease. It's very easy to lock into (catch) the wave, much more so than surface surfing. It's easy to get out the back (see above) and it's easy to exit waves
5. Fins, the short fins we use in bodyboarding don't seem particularly good for catching waves underwater (but may be better for positioning). It's like you've got more time to catch the wave and need more prolonged power (longer fins). Not sure about this, I'd be interested to hear other's opinions
6. Stand up surfing you use an edge, bodyboarding you use and edge and a leg (extension of that edge), bodysurfing you use a surface and under water surfing you use your whole body. It doesn't make it better, it's just different. I like surfing on the surface for the sounds, the vision the shifting of weights at speed. Underwater surfing offers different sounds and that shifting of weight (weightlessness due to speed) is constantly there but quite a different sensation
7. I'm happy to do it by myself
8. but I think it would be possible to share individual waves in a way which is not possible for surface surfing (because underwater there's a greater area of power and I don't think one person in the wave would impact another person's power/position in the wave). Surfing culture is typically about one person on the wave (or finding a site and not telling people about it) but when you see dolphins, there's often five or six inside the one wave
9. Although it's easy to underwater surf I'd recommend people learn to surface surf first because there's a whole language in reading waves and conditions. It's not that one is better than the other but I'm not sure that overall awareness is developed underwater. People die by placing themselves in the wrong position in surf and they don't need to be riding waves to do so
10. lifeguards surf underwater to catch waves but in a utilitarian manner (to get to shore) maybe one day they will stay down and turn left or right
11. WA's fat waves mean there is a great power in the wave. I don't mean the height of the wave I mean how fat it is when viewed from above. This generates the push we use when underwater surfing. I've not surfed in Hawaii but I guess the waves are fat there (Waimea shore break is fat)
12. My sponsors? I ride a 1974 model with arms, legs and few dings where it has hit various reefs (from surface surfing).

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Cool to hear this info Migs, the more we progress the more info comes to the surface...
Ken, the Red Bull idea sounds great, i'll e-mail you directly so we can better talk about things. right now i'm a bit disapointed with the lack of interest to proceed in aranging Hawaii. when i first threw the idea, there where some very interested people and now that we need to make things more concrete they have all vanished. i guess it's going to happen with or without them regardless. delphic regards to all...
Hello from Brazil!
I just find this topic, and Iam glad I found other people who love sub body surf! Sorry Iam late for the discussion...
In body surf competitions here, the sub entry count some extra points . Like in the figure: http://www.bodysurf.hpg.ig.com.br/estilo.htm
I like to much to sub riding, but in competition you have to emerge at some point in the wave.

I use short bifins, but, as I freedive with a monofin, I also do the dolphin kick when bodysurfing.
Now Iam trying to figure out how to "simulate" a monofin with my bifins. As I lost many fins at bigger waves, I am afraid to use my mono to body surf. They are also to big for that (Waterway 2)...

I wonder if I could glue a termoplastic piece (with a small mono shape) at the bi fins... maybe wont hold, for its too much pressure...here is the bifin model:

Does anybody have a suggestion on that? I'll apreciate!

Thanks in advance !
Hey Ken, i actually don't have your e-mail. so if you don't mind, post it here or e-mail it to me at noamarkou@yahoo.com. hello Paulo and welcome to the family. i don't know about glueing bi fins and i imagine it would not hold well. a small stiff mono is ideal in my opinion. it would have to fit well so it does not come off in a wipeout.
Hi Paulo,

Welcome to DB and this thread. Thank you for posting that website, very interesting.

Noa, Michael and Connor,
Thank you for your words!

Sorry the website does not have a english version. I wished to show a photo of the "submersed style" as the people use here, as I found later in a better brazilian bodysurf site:
Click at "Manobras" (manouvers), and then at "Estilo Submerso" (submersed style, left bottom of the page).

Iam reading all the posts since de beggining of this topic, there are much of great informations !!!
Great website, wish my spanish was better. Still, a whole lot of stuff I had not seen, Pipe especially.


Hi all i remember when SUNNY MILLER was editing that footage of Mike Stewart of teahupoo he had some wicked inside the tube camera footage because Mike had a camera on his board . I love the Brazilian web page devoted to bodysurfing . I always use a mask as I love to see underwater flying over the top of fish and reef also the speed I am doing would rip my face off if hit I tend to get a few sand bottom grazes as it is .I have found stiff bladed split fins work well as your body can be half way into an ark in the middle of the wave and you can hold or alter that position slightly bye lifting one leg or the other giving you instant exceleration turning like a Tuna just flying along then changing direction instantly very handy for kicking out underwater of the vortex . You definitly start to get a feel for that last spilt second of pull .It sounds like there is a few of us in west australia experimenting . We definitly have the power and clean water to work with if any one who wants to get together for a session I am always up for it . How good has july been here epic I have done a few trips to rotto My e mail direct is waveken@westnet.com.au.Has anyone taken up the Deepblue 9$ expansion offer and if so is it worth it can you post pictures and Quicktime viedos etc Ken
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