-
Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:
- Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
- Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
- Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
- Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
- All this and much more...
You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!
Vertical Blue 2009
- Thread startertrux
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Just when I thought the show was over, the show exploded!
It was great to be (virtual) part of it. Rob King is the only person there I know personally so I was especially focused on his dives and he did great!
Herbert, well his Herbert so I knew what to expect. Too bad I didn't place my bet in the poll, I would win Suunto D4! cause I knew he'll do 115+ WR.
It was great to be (virtual) part of it. Rob King is the only person there I know personally so I was especially focused on his dives and he did great!
Herbert, well his Herbert so I knew what to expect. Too bad I didn't place my bet in the poll, I would win Suunto D4! cause I knew he'll do 115+ WR.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EqC3p0OIbE]YouTube - Herbert Nitch CWT 120m WR[/ame]
120m movie!
have fun mates
120m movie!
have fun mates
Congratulations for Herbert - what a fighter.
Eric, please tell us more about his failed legs and arms use. From some reports, I was left with the impression that he used his arms because the dive was easy for him. Your statement now makes more sense for me.
Eric, please tell us more about his failed legs and arms use. From some reports, I was left with the impression that he used his arms because the dive was easy for him. Your statement now makes more sense for me.
more likely that he had to use his arms because he reached muscle failure in his legs.
DD
incredible dive!
DD
incredible dive!
What are the actual phisycal events in the body which lead to such muscle failure? Are the muscles deprived of ATP? Is it connected to the myoglobin? Is this muscle failure similar to muscle exhaustion during for example weight lifting?
Most of the cases freedivers are limited by equalization problems or O2 depletion. I am not familiar with muscle failure as an obstacle? It is very interesting for me. Is it applicable only for very deep dives?
I am sorry if this is off topic or maybe if this subject was commented somewhere else. I'll appreciate any feedback.
Most of the cases freedivers are limited by equalization problems or O2 depletion. I am not familiar with muscle failure as an obstacle? It is very interesting for me. Is it applicable only for very deep dives?
I am sorry if this is off topic or maybe if this subject was commented somewhere else. I'll appreciate any feedback.
It's a very common problem for deep dives. Rarely do people actually resort to arm strokes, but the burn can be pretty intense on much shallower dives.
When the dive reflex kicks in properly (as it does with such a deep dive pretty much for anyone) the bloodflow to the legs is restricted and they are more or less dependant on anaerobic stores (on a normal breathing activity we would be in aerobic mode by now, but apnea is a little trickier). Even without the diver reflex, oxygen supply is limited. Lactic acid will build up quickly, work is intense on the ascent and the problem is to make the energy stores last to the surface.
Or that's the general consensus anyway...
In Herbert's case, I'm not an expert, but at least he used to dive quite heavily balanced. Ie he likes to hit freefall earlier, but the trade off is of course that the ascent will be a lot more work. Thus the limiting factor may well be leg failure.
If you want to compare to weight lifting, the feeling is a bit like doing a really long series of squats with a moderate weight load to failure.
When the dive reflex kicks in properly (as it does with such a deep dive pretty much for anyone) the bloodflow to the legs is restricted and they are more or less dependant on anaerobic stores (on a normal breathing activity we would be in aerobic mode by now, but apnea is a little trickier). Even without the diver reflex, oxygen supply is limited. Lactic acid will build up quickly, work is intense on the ascent and the problem is to make the energy stores last to the surface.
Or that's the general consensus anyway...
In Herbert's case, I'm not an expert, but at least he used to dive quite heavily balanced. Ie he likes to hit freefall earlier, but the trade off is of course that the ascent will be a lot more work. Thus the limiting factor may well be leg failure.
If you want to compare to weight lifting, the feeling is a bit like doing a really long series of squats with a moderate weight load to failure.
Last edited:
Thank you, Simo. I am well acquainted with the result of lack of oxygen, powered by the blood shift. I didn't know the effect is so serious on lactic acid build up.
So we have two results:
1. lactic acid burn up which leads to unpleasant burn feeling
2. anaerobic stores depletion which makes the muscles impossible to use, may happen without the burn feeling
In different ways of workout I have succeeded in reaching my limit because either of the two. I presume that the problem with Herbert was because of the latter.
So we have two results:
1. lactic acid burn up which leads to unpleasant burn feeling
2. anaerobic stores depletion which makes the muscles impossible to use, may happen without the burn feeling
In different ways of workout I have succeeded in reaching my limit because either of the two. I presume that the problem with Herbert was because of the latter.
It's pretty much impossible to 'exhaust your anaerobic stores' without filling your muscles up with lactic acid, because the anaerobic lactic pathway is the predominant source of energy (anaerobic alactic doesn't contribute much).
I have had to repeatedly pause for a few seconds on the ascent from deep dives, but never had to use my arms.
I have had to repeatedly pause for a few seconds on the ascent from deep dives, but never had to use my arms.
Last edited:
Actually I think alactic failure is possible. If blood is absent, then there is no glucose available. Without glucose, the lactic pathway is unavailable. Then, only the alactic paths are available (ATP, creatine, NADH).
However I need an expert to confirm my theory.
However I need an expert to confirm my theory.
Thank you everybody, and congratulations to all the athletes at VB!
I had a great time at the VB and am still here on Longisland.
Just for info:
Using my arms for the last 35 - 40 meters is planned and part of my technique. I want to leave the bottom as fast as possible. Therefor my legs are getting very lactic soon, also my monofin is not the best one. At some point my legs get the feeling that the arms can contribute a little too. Next time, if I manage to equalize, I will either use a better fin and/or armstroke the last 50 meters
I had a great time at the VB and am still here on Longisland.
Just for info:
Using my arms for the last 35 - 40 meters is planned and part of my technique. I want to leave the bottom as fast as possible. Therefor my legs are getting very lactic soon, also my monofin is not the best one. At some point my legs get the feeling that the arms can contribute a little too. Next time, if I manage to equalize, I will either use a better fin and/or armstroke the last 50 meters
Last edited:
WOW indeed congrats!!!!:friday I just added some excerts/cliff notes on my blog SettingSteel Spearfishing: Freediving, freediving, freediving..... for those of you who would like some explanation on the event, without a derail here.
[edit] scroll to the bottom for a pretty good explanation of the disciplines
Congrats again to the athletes and to the host Freediving Team - Vertical Blue Freediving Apnea Academy
[edit] scroll to the bottom for a pretty good explanation of the disciplines
Congrats again to the athletes and to the host Freediving Team - Vertical Blue Freediving Apnea Academy
Last edited:
We've just finished work on the video of my recent 88m world record freedive, and it is now loaded to You Tube at the following address (in high definition also!)
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF4PN8-2YSk]YouTube - Freediving World Record no fins 88m (288ft)[/ame]
If you enjoy the video, could you please rate/comment it, and forward the link on to as many people as you can, past it into your blog, FB, My Space, Twitter or whatever other social networking program you use!
Cheers, William.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF4PN8-2YSk]YouTube - Freediving World Record no fins 88m (288ft)[/ame]
If you enjoy the video, could you please rate/comment it, and forward the link on to as many people as you can, past it into your blog, FB, My Space, Twitter or whatever other social networking program you use!
Cheers, William.