very deep dives without mouthfil?

[sebastien murat]

Hi Will! Happy to see your living your dream. These days, if not diving the cold Baltic Sea (quite good actually), I look to Indonesia (on the wild side). Perhaps Dean's Blue Hole should be renamed Will's since I doubt the Dean's use it much, if they ever used it at all. By the way, I know of another spot, but I'll keep that one to myself if you all don't mind (tease).

Like I said, just made a quick, curious look into DB, so you'll all excuse me if I tune out again. However, I'll happily get back, eventually, to anyone who leaves me a personalized message, provided its not to do with tech stuff.

See you on the other side. Over and out.
S

 

[DivingDane]

Later Seb all the best.

I can vouch for lotta's course on mouth fill. She can most definitely teach very effective mouth fill technique in a couple of days, sure it's not "the perfect" mouth fill but technically it is very good and she also gives the tools to learn to improve on the efficiency of the mouth fill over time and training.

Don't care what anybody else says on here, a couple of days training with her changed the entire way I dived.... For the better

DD
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[sgnips]

yes arjen, stop insisting: obviously i'm dreaming and sgnips is right.

i'm often right but no one here stated you're dreaming so don't be offended by my words, please
my first freediving course was a 3-days with an instructor and 5 other students: i learnt something, but i can never say i learnt freediving
and i challenge any instructor to teach freediving in 3 days, me included: that's simply very very very difficult
the same happens with such a complex technique like MF

by the way sgnips, do you know how long are fede's courses on equalization and how long does he take to teach the mouthfill?

maybe Fede might come in and explain in first person what he does
i attended his update course dedicated to AA instructors, he explained us the MF, we tried it, but the objective was understanding what happens with this technique, not learning it nor mastering it
more, the objective of the whole course was to show in depth how equalization (in general, not only MF) works
i'm sure his courses for students are different, but i gues the objective does not change much

maybe you can tell us the objectives of your courses on MF, so we can compare the two
PLEASE NOTE LINDA: preserve me from saying you're holding crap courses, we simply began our discussion without specifying this point, so clarifying it will help a lot and avoid misunderstading

cheers

 

[trux]

Perhaps we could come back to the topic - the book of Marcus Greatwood ought to be out since a few days, so I wonder if anyone already had a look at it, and could reveal the secret of deep diving without a mouth-fill. Or will you be under the Pharaoh's Curse untill the end of your days if you ever speak about the secret?

 

[sgnips]

Perhaps we could come back to the topic

that's what we all hope, Trux

about the book: it doesn't seem to be available on Amazon, where might i look for it?

 

[mermaidgirl]

I ordered the book but got a reply back that is was not yet available. Expected sometime late this month.
http://http://www.eason.ie/books/9780956732606

 

[trux]

Well, I do not want to make too much advertising for Marcus before knowing if it is not a scam, but I posted a link at the beginning of this thread: Deep Freediving by Marcus I. Greatwood (Paperback) | Eason & Son Bookstore

 

[mermaidgirl]

Well, I do not want to make too much advertising for Marcus before knowing if it is not a scam, but I posted a link at the beginning of this thread: Deep Freediving by Marcus I. Greatwood (Paperback) | Eason & Son Bookstore

I''ll let you know if I receive it. I paid so...

 

[Simos]

Well, I do not want to make too much advertising for Marcus before knowing if it is not a scam[/url]

Haven't seen the book yet Trux and not sure what you mean by scam but I can confirm 110% that Marcus does indeed exist
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[trux]

Yes, I know Marcus exists, it was more a question whether the technique is something real and usable.

 

[Yeti]

Back to the mouth fill ,repeatedly compressing air in the cheeks tends to stretch them and gives jowls like a bloodhound in ones middle years especially for those who have achieved a 3lt mouthfill !!!!

pmsl! rofl

 

[fedemana]

Hi everybody,
here i am

i'm often right

maybe Fede might come in and explain in first person what he does
i attended his update course dedicated to AA instructors, he explained us the MF, we tried it, but the objective was understanding what happens with this technique, not learning it nor mastering it
more, the objective of the whole course was to show in depth how equalization (in general, not only MF) works
i'm sure his courses for students are different, but i gues the objective does not change much

cheers

During my courses i teach that there are not dangerous techniques... all techniques are neutral.
But free diver can use the techniques in dangerous way.

About the mouth fill i think is a very safe tecnique because when the diver move air from the lungs to the mouth to fill it should do it before to reach the RV. This make the filling very safe.
Than closing the glottis during all the descent lungs will be isolated... this is also very safe.

In case during the descent the diver open the glottis the air will go to lungs without any risks of lungs injuryes if at this moment the diver will stop the descent and will turn back.

The problem can append in case the diver try to fill again the mouth of air and the reached depth induced a lungs volume under the RV. If the free diver is not able to menage air at this depth he can have lungs squeeze or lungs injuryes.

I think Mouth fill is one of the safest techniques to equalize, the problem is that beginners usually wouldn't use it (if they would be able to leran it) to dive in safe way but only to improve their PB.
That's be we dicided to don't teach it in AA method.
The oder reason is that if you want to teach in a Didactics all the istructor have to know it and to manage it in confortable way.
During my stage i met many many people teaching mouth fill without any idea of wath mouth fill is.

I hope to be usefull

Fede

 

[DivingDane]

Great the hear from you Federico!

Thanks for your opinion and this makes much more sense. I can understand why it is not part of the entry level courses.

Glad to also read that you are actively working on the method and teaching specialty courses on equalization.

May I ask will you be translating your latest book dry apnea training to English?

Regards

DD
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[aharon solomons]

The problem with teaching mouthfill on the AIDA 4 star as per Linda and Lotta is that you can only introduce the subject not teach it , one of the problems is that 32 mts is not a depth you can get any reliable feeback as to the sucess of ones teaching . Even if one is teaching on empty lungs as we do ( FRC is far too impresise for this ) there still remains too many unanswered variables.topping up the mouth fill , soft palate lock up, swallowing, and all the other ills may only appear at real depth as a factor of depth trigger points ,longer dive times or simply psychological stress.The mouthfill is a layered technique and each depth has its own chalenges .I had in the beggining doubts about these FD courses with many different levels , mostly they obey, it seems to me ,a commercial imperative and not a pedagogic one .That is why in recent years I have choosen to specialise in coaching elite divers where one confronts with them the unfolding challenges . We have our own approach to the mouthfill which I donot claim as origional but it perhaps is a different approach and taught in, I flatter myself ,an efficient and effective manner in the minnimum time .We also give clinics in every aspect of equalisation.This is a very interesting thread but I fear has little to do with deep diving without mouthfill have we exhausted the subject?

 

[x_yeti]

I had in the beggining doubts about these FD courses with many different levels , mostly they obey, it seems to me ,a commercial imperative and not a pedagogic one .That is why in recent years I have choosen to specialise in coaching elite divers where one confronts with them the unfolding challenges.

It actually sounds like you follow more of an andragogical model, than a pedagogical one. Good on you!

Unfortunately most commercial courses do focus on having a teacher transmit information to students instead of leading them through the learning process. That's why I think it is imperative that if you do 'learn' the mouthfill on a commercial course, like the Aida 4 star, that you then train with it, hit all the inevitable snags and then go back to a decent mouthfill instructor and get them to help you solve those problems.

 

[DivingDane]

Any chance we are going to see you in Australia Aharon?
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[tcrusson]

OK, I bought the "book" and received it today. I read the 11 pages in about 15 minutes, and:
- Yes, Marcus claims to have invented the mouthfill technique, although he does not describe it. He just says that its advantages are superficial.
- No, he does not describe another equalisation technique in his "book". He just tells you you need to stretch/soften your cartilage, and build muscle strength in the throat/tracchea, over months. duh.
- The rest of the "book" contains some stuff which is nice to know when you have been freediving for a couple of months.
What a scam... I want my 15 minutes back.

 

[dimitris33]

I have invented a new technique. It is called Valsalva. I will soon publish a book about how to do it.

Be alert as only few copies will go out!

 

[buddha]

Mine hasn't arrived yet but I feel disappointed instantly by tcrusson.
I spend my money for nothing, at least I will save my time not reading it and going to the pool instead.

 

[watts]

Maybe this is the new mouthfill technique.:martial [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKApWBCNGzY]YouTube - Frontal sinus air fistula[/ame]