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waterway glide vs. leaderfins hyper

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Chen Bin monofin arrival date is March 22...only because of Chinese New Year. :inlove
 
Hope you have flexible ankes Laminar - those videos you posted of people swimming with Chen Bin fins seem to indicate they're desperately in need of more angle. The fins look good otherwise though
 
Thanks Kars. This fin with the centre cut-out seems to want to collapse under load. By collapse I mean the two new inside corners of the cut-out try to come together effectively closing the gap and creating even more v-bend across the tail of the fin(the opposite of what I was expecting). I haven't yet got my head around what forces are in play to cause this. As a result it does not respond like a normal split fin.

The thing that really surprises me is how little any of these radical changes impact the performance of the fin. It makes me think that current monos are not all that high tech if you can make huge changes to them with only some impact to performance. I'm fairly sure that the impact to a Lunocet by changes like this would so dramatically change the fluid flow that you would feel a huge difference to the performance.
 
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I spoke with an experienced monofin swimmer last weekend and asked his opinnion about the v-bend.

He was of the opinnion that it has to do with how the monofin is laminated or layered.

The simplest designs are flat. Just even layers going from top to bottom, each segment a little thinner than the rest. Usually such blades are quite soft and also v-bend.

Then there are flat ones, but the middle of the blade has been sanded thinner, so it does the proper "spoon bend", but also breaks easily. These are very rare I'm told.

Then there are blades that have vertical support "fingers" laminated into them. The common one is the so called "7 finger" design (I'm translating very freely here). It bends pretty much flat, not spoon or v. The downside is that they are also usully harder to control (slipping sideways) and require a good technique and experienced swimmer.

So might I be wrong in guessing the v-bending ones are of the "flat" type?

Here's a silly doodle to illustrate

The type and strength of the wings will also affect how it bends, of course.
 

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The leaderfins hyper/hyper pros have the "finger support" but still show noticable v-bend. Not sure if they're worse than others, but clearly there's more to it than that.
 
You're right Chrismar.

If I look at the quastion, it's for me a matter of material and thicness. The difficulty with a monofin is that you want a certain type and degree of flexibility in one direction, and a rigid stifness in the other.

If I was to solve it I would make the upper part of the fin more rigid, by for instance glueing a plate (wing) on the back of the blade covering 2/3 or 3/4 of the width's blade.

Ok, gotta run!

Kars
 
monofins are made from bidirectional fibreglass cloth. Maybe making them from unidirectional cloth would solve this v fold problem as they could then be very stiff across the blade but soft from tip to tail
 
The video I posted of the chen bin shows (I think) no noticeable v-bend. I should get mine in the next week and I'll post a video.

Pete
 
Mullins said:
Hope you have flexible ankes Laminar - those videos you posted of people swimming with Chen Bin fins seem to indicate they're desperately in need of more angle. The fins look good otherwise though
Click to expand...

That's funny. I need more ANGLE!!!!!!!



My ankles should be fine... I did want an all around fin, not just one that excels horizontally. Hopefully, I'll be able to kick and glide with it.

Pete
 
Hehe, ok so there's not too much wailing and gnashing of teeth going on. But I reckon they're probably just acting all stoical for the camera...

You can see what I mean in the videos though eh. The whole kick including the bottom of the stroke is taking place well above the line of the guy's body. A body angled downward (upward...?) while travelling forward is not terribly efficient.
 
**Wails and gnashes teeth***

You can try my chen bin in the Beehamas when I'm there once you're done with your deep dives. Unless with your big lungs you've got feet to match.

If it fails to deliver, I may sacrifice it to the same gods that ADR sacrifices his fins to on a regular basis.

There's one possibility in terms of those video clips: that the swimmer isn't very good or using the fin properly long dynamics. (I'm hopeful that that's the case). :duh
 
Yup, I'll concede that's the most probable explanation.

Would be great to have a go with your fin in the blue hole, though my feet are a little on the large side. Still, willing to endure a bit of pain in the name of science.
 
So the Chen Bin arrived today..... :martial

Well, first impressions were mixed. I got it out of the packaging and liked the monofin bag that came with it for free and the way it was packed. It also came with a pair of monofin socks. Nice touch.

The whole side edge of the monofin is encased in rubber. It's a strange look. Unfortunately, three inches of rubber had already become unglued from the fiberglass. I've already emailed chen bin on the best way to fix it. It looks somewhat tricky because I'll need to pull the rubber tight (ie. stretch it) to get it to where it was. There was also a small nick in the trailing edge of the monofin. Not sure where that came from, but also inevitable... Have asked about how best to deal with that. Most likely I'll sand it down so it won't catch on anything.

Looking at it from the side view, it doesn't look like it has much on an angle. If it does, it is a subtle angle.

I tried putting it on with the socks supplied, but the footpocket was pretty tight. I have a big big toe, which is also painful with footpockets that are squared away at the top of the footpocket. I don't know why footpockets aren't made with that in mind...

Anyway, with a little lube, I got the fin on. Interestingly, the footpocket forced my feet into an arched position, which more or less reproduces a "angled" blade effect. The footpocket itself it cruved. Sneaky, that. I can see that my feet will be cramping in this position for a while, but it will also be a reminder to use the core to undulate (which I'm fairly good at), rather than kicking.

Anyway, I'm going to fix the rubber problem before taking it into the water and use it for a couple of days to see if I need to stretch the rubber a little for a more comfortable fit or try something else. I think the footpocket is almost a perfect fit, except for my big toe.

So I'll just cut it off in the name of the sport.

More soon.

Pete
 
When I was a kid my friend's mom had her little toes amputated - she said she didn't like them...She also slept with her eyes open..(CREEPY.....!!!!)
 
Creepy and Freaky...

I'm looking to your report Laminar.

Here is mine about the Hyperfins I got about the 26th of february.
It has got the 30 degree angle, and has a medium blade.
Though it feels rather soft at the end.

The fin I used up to then was a WaterWay MD2 Middle Distance. I did a pb (134m) with this WW just a few days earlier, on the 26th on the Freedive pool competition in Berlin. (9. Berliner Meisterschaft im Apnoetauchen)
When I first put the fin on, it fitted pretty good, only the upper part , the foot arch, was too wide. I got flat feet. When I made the first two strokes in a shallow pool, I knew this was going to be good. Than in the 25m pool, I made some test swims. Slow fast, wide amplitude, smaller, etc. Stikeing differences are, huge glide, bigger swim amplitude, number of strokes halfed, higher speeds, slow more difficult turns with 'sucking' of the blade against the wall.

After this initial swim, I cut about 6cm into the foot-pocked and removed about a width of 2,5cm at the rim of the pocked and glued it back together with Bison rubber Super glue 'industrial'.

The next swim was in the 50m pool in Eindhoven, testing the adjusted new fin. That day I apperently had a good day. Did an easy going 100m apnee in a 1'16" with a very slow turn. The swim felt easy getting to know and work with the fins caracteristics and abilities. Then I proceded with my regular monofin training of swimming 1km 50/50 (after turn 25m UW monostyle with small fins, followed by 25 freestroke to the next turn). Than 1km of surface monofinning on my back on surface with a weight in my outstretched arms. After this the lane was empty so I put on my new adjusted fin and decided to try 16x50m under water. My pb and NR is 16'23" (WR is about 11'15").
Feeling good and warmed up I started with the 1' schedule.
The 50m dives were increddible, easy reaching 29-30seconds for a 50m, and having enough breath for conversation in between. With my WW it used to take 33 and 34 seconds. I asked Carl (timing and coaching) to take it down to 55". Resulting in a pb of 14'40"
An inspireing start, looking forward bringing the schedule down to 50seconds a 50m.

Compared to my old WW MD2 MD the Hyperfins fin feels like a catapult, cannot wait to try for the next competition.

I love the new fin, and named her Natalia.

I'm now going to alter my old WW to become my preffered CW fin, with 30 degree angle.

Feel free to ask any questions.

Kars
 
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Wow Kars.. That is an incredible increase in PB! Well done.

I've not used the Waterway Glide yet but used to use waterways fins without the angled pockets. LDM1 and MDM2 I think.

I am very happy with the Leaderfin Hyper but it did take a while to get used to and had to change my finning technique to suit the fin.

Would like to try a waterway glide at some point though.
 
If the Water Way Glide fin had a 30 degree angle, it would be the best fin in my book. The Glide fin has a very solid rubber foot pocket, that is very suiteble for CW too.

The Hyperfins fin is now the best Dynamic fin for sale in my opinion.

Kars
 
hi kars,

because there are so much "hyperfins" out there, do you mean the brand hyperfins?

if yes, what is the name of the model or what did you tell them to get yours?
just 30 degree angel and medium blade?
how long did it take untill it arrived?

I am very pleased with my specialfins coloured but sometimes i am looking for an alternative, if i will break mine in the pool....

kind regards,

marc
 
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