whey protein powder

[holdown]

I open water swim in the mornings and try to dive later in the day. My swims are pretty strenous and when I finish I drink a mixture made with whey protein-this based on my understanding that there is an ideal 15-20min period after a workout in which blood insulin levels are elevated and nutrients are most efficiently absorbed. I generally eschew dairy products as I've been led to believe that they inhibit to some degree breathing by creating some mucus in the bronchioles/airway-for the same reason as cystic fibrosis patients avoid it. My concern is whether or not whey protein powder is mucus generating and if so what are other good alternatives after a workout. thanks

 

[Newbie_spearo]

first of all, insulin levels are not elevated after exercise but after eating high levels of dextrose or glucose. But you are correct in that you have a 30min window to get protein to the muscles after a workout. Check what sort of whey protein you are using, Isolate is the best as far as quality, but also is the more expensive. From my understanding it should be more user friendly as far as sinuses go, concentrate is the most common and then micellar casein is the least common but also cheaper again. Most protein mixes will be whey protein isolate and concentrate. Again depending on what your training goals are and your budget will depend on the protein can use. Use the whey isolate sparingly and probably directly after heavy pool or gym sessions. I wouldn't worry about other forms, just eat a balanced diet and you should be fine. unless you are a body builder I don't think you need to worry too much about all that stuff.

 

[myfish]

For myself, after heavy bouts of exercise, a decent helping of isolate whey
can make you feel much better and if taken with suitable carb's, will help you recover better too.

As i'm fairly new to this freediving game i'm unsure as to how it would affect
mucous production but i'm giving this info based upon heavy bicycling training.

After 1 hour post training without protein and carbs you can get the urge to binge. Using whey isolate + carbs removes this and i've often gone diving mere hours after doing 50-60 miles on the bike @ speed so i guess it works.

Not all wheys are equal though and i'd experiment a bit.
Cost doesn't always equate to quality.

 

[Newbie_spearo]

Actually cost in most proteins is going to relate some what to the quality, since it's more expensive to produce Whey protein isolate it's generally the most expensive. Most proteins you see on the shelves, especially in supermarkets are either a 50/50 blend of isolate/concentrate, sometimes the cheaper nastier ones are more like 30/70 respectively. I found a good protein was optimum nutrition 100% Whey, it was about an 80/20 blend. The other way to see if the brand uses cheap concentrate to "fill" the serve is to look at the ingredients and which one is listed first - ingredients are listed in quantity order, largest to smallest. Also the ease of mixing will give you a rough idea. The thicker the powder and harder to mix up the more concentrate it'll have. reason being that isolate is very easily digestible, about an hour and it's all done, where as concentrate can take 3-4 hours, this is why isolate is better because it gets into the bloodstream faster and feed the muscle when it needs the nutrients the most. This is also the reason people take dextrose with their shakes, to spike insulin levels and get the nutrients transported faster again. The other thing you should do is take your protein with water, as milk slows down the absorption due to the fat in the milk. I train in the gym 3-5 times weekly and use protein after every work out and haven't had any issues with congestion. Good brands are dymatize ISO 100, Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey, Horleys ICE, will name a few more when I think of them.

 

[ny_er]

I enjoy drinking protein shakes after working out and before diving

but I read on this site and other places the whole "dairy creates mucus " theory

but a quick internet search pretty much says there is no relationship between dairy and mucus

study in Australia

Relationship between milk intake and mucus product...[Am Rev Respir Dis. 1990] - PubMed Result

is this whole dairy = mucus thing BS?

 

[5kgLifter]

I enjoy drinking protein shakes after working out and before diving

but I read on this site and other places the whole "dairy creates mucus " theory

but a quick internet search pretty much says there is no relationship between dairy and mucus

study in Australia

Relationship between milk intake and mucus product...[Am Rev Respir Dis. 1990] - PubMed Result

is this whole dairy = mucus thing BS?

I think if a person is more intolerant to milk then they are more liable to end up with a cold and excess mucus production than probably those who show no intolerance to milk products. I know when I stopped having milk in drinks (and I don't have cereal with milk etc) that I had no colds for over almost a decade; when I give in to ice cream etc and overdo it I end up with cattarh (sp?) and normally a cold...but if I have the odd ice cream as a treat, or cheese 3 times a year on special occasions, I remain cold free. Whereas hubby can drink as much milk as he likes, and eat cheese galore and not have a problem of any sort. So, I really think it also depends on the individual, but for me it's definitely mucus forming, so I limit it drastically (and only for that reason, and the fact that it brings me out in painful facial inflammations which don't occur unless I touch milk) and generally avoid it wherever possible. My problem is, apart from the obvious bad effects, I actually happen to like ice cold milk and danish blue cheese sandwiches, in addition to cheese and potato pie...so, it's a matter of strong will at times; but avoiding the inflammations alone is reason enough not to touch milk, for me personally.

 

[efattah]

For a while, whey protein isolates were the best an athlete could get. No longer. Hydrolyzed casein protein has been shown to beat whey over and over in several studies. Not to mention it beats whey hands down in my experience.

I get it (PeptoPro) from bodybuilding.com. Pre-digested, no gas, no lactose. I recommend the natural flavour.

 

[Newbie_spearo]

Hydrolyzed protein is better then standard protein. However as said before different forms or for lack of a better word - types - of protein are used for specific training needs and goals. Hydrolyzed protein is simply broken down further so that your body does needs to do less processing of the protein to get the nutrients it needs. One thing to be aware of is that hydrolyzed protein contains MSG. I would not think that Casein protein would be used as an every day protein for someone looking for a simple recovery protein after a work out. Calcium Casseinate is a protein generally used by body builders who are also using some form of HGH - Human Growth Hormone - to get bigger gains and keep feeding the muscle. They use this protein not after a work out but generally a few hours after a work out before going to bed, reason being is that when you sleep your body releases it's natural HGH and this is when you actually get bigger, stronger faster etc. So you can see the benefits to getting a good night sleep. The biggest thing to remember about Casein proteins is that they have a very slow release rate, some 7-9hours and this is why it is best used when sleeping because the HGH can utilise the amino acids in the protein to their full potential. Some one not looking to "bulk" up would not generally use this protein as it can also give a bloating sort of effect, kind of like creatine where the body stores excess water in the muscle. You can get Hydrolyzed Whey Protein Isolate, ASN is one company that do it, this has a release rate of 30-60mins compared to 7-9hours, and would be much better suited to people wanting to replenish nutrients and stay lean. Casein could be used to stop binge snacking as it will keep you full for the time it takes to release. but then there is also chromium picolinate which will reduce carb cravings and also help regulate insulin levels, very good for diabetics, but any diabetics should consult their doctor before using this supplement.

 

[wes]

I have been using this whey powder on my oatmeal in the morning and sometimes in a recovery shake. It is very cheap and was wondering how it compares to what others are using in posts. It costs about $1.20 per lbs. so is very cheap.

Here is the product description:

This Whey Milk Powder is a light colored, free-flowing powder resulting from spray-drying sweet, fresh, cheese whey. It is pasteurized either before or during the process of manufacture at a temperature of 161 degrees F for 15 seconds or its equivalent in bacterial destruction. No alkali or other chemical is added.

This product is used in a wide variety of different products including: frozen desserts, processed foods, confections and bakery items.

INGREDIENTS: Whey.

Here is link to product for sale:

Azure Standard - Milk Powder, Sweet Whey

Thanks and Cheers Wes Lapp

 

[Mr. X]

Whey is milk protein and does seem to be the fashionable protein supplement - and has been for about a decade. You hear a lot of bad things about dairy products (mucus, heart disease, premature menstration, early onset rheumatism, possibly cancer, antibiotics, hormones) although I also heard recently that dairy can help avoid gout -- which I believe is caused by build up of uric acid from excessive intake of protein.

I recall reading an article about a top athlete - it might have been triathlete Mark Allen the X times Hawaiian Ironman Champion - say they ate treats, usually ice cream, immediately after a long workout/race, as it was metabolised to glycogen. I guess there is a psychological benefit to only having treats after major exercise. If you enjoy your protein supplement, sounds even better (although protein, & fat in ice cream, are probably going to be harder/slower to metabolise than carbs. & sugars).

Everything in modertation. Weider produce(d) sticks to test your urine to see if you are taking in more protein than your body can absorb. Probably a good idea if you use supplements as I believe excess protein can also cause kidney problems (perhaps one for the forum's physicians will correct me if I got that wrong?).

The M&F website seems to keep an up to date guide on the use of supplements for different purposes (bear in mind they do have a vested interest in the supplements industry though): http://www.muscleandfitness.com/supplements

 

[efattah]

Hydrolyzed protein is better then standard protein. However as said before different forms or for lack of a better word - types - of protein are used for specific training needs and goals. Hydrolyzed protein is simply broken down further so that your body does needs to do less processing of the protein to get the nutrients it needs. One thing to be aware of is that hydrolyzed protein contains MSG. I would not think that Casein protein would be used as an every day protein for someone looking for a simple recovery protein after a work out. Calcium Casseinate is a protein generally used by body builders who are also using some form of HGH - Human Growth Hormone - to get bigger gains and keep feeding the muscle. They use this protein not after a work out but generally a few hours after a work out before going to bed, reason being is that when you sleep your body releases it's natural HGH and this is when you actually get bigger, stronger faster etc. So you can see the benefits to getting a good night sleep. The biggest thing to remember about Casein proteins is that they have a very slow release rate, some 7-9hours and this is why it is best used when sleeping because the HGH can utilise the amino acids in the protein to their full potential. Some one not looking to "bulk" up would not generally use this protein as it can also give a bloating sort of effect, kind of like creatine where the body stores excess water in the muscle. You can get Hydrolyzed Whey Protein Isolate, ASN is one company that do it, this has a release rate of 30-60mins compared to 7-9hours, and would be much better suited to people wanting to replenish nutrients and stay lean. Casein could be used to stop binge snacking as it will keep you full for the time it takes to release. but then there is also chromium picolinate which will reduce carb cravings and also help regulate insulin levels, very good for diabetics, but any diabetics should consult their doctor before using this supplement.

Why don't you actually do some research before posting? I would like you to delete your entire post as it is completely inaccurrate. Hydrolyzed casein protein is the fastest absorbing protein ever invented (something like 20-30 minutes), absorbed almost twice as fast as the fastest whey protein. Studies show that it beats whey not only in absorption speed, but also when used as the 'primary' and only protein supplement. Further hydrolyzed casein such as peptopro is 50% hydrolyzed, vs. 3-10% hydrolyzed for hydrolyzed whey.

 

[Svedberg]

I thought pure EAA(Essential amino acids) were the fastest way of getting amino acids into your muscles. Or at least the one wich activates your protein synthesis most.

 

[Broseidon]

As a bodybuilder, I eat a lot of whey powder - probably 1kg per week. I unfortunately have quite a problem with dairy - it gives me really bad mucus.

Fortunately, you can get whey isolate, which has pretty much ZERO Lactose. It's more expensive than general whey but it should be much better quality.

I buy mine from www.myprotein.co.uk (UK based)

Impact whey isolate (unflavoured) - Unflavoured protein | myprotein.co.uk

 

[Broseidon]

but a quick internet search pretty much says there is no relationship between dairy and mucus

is this whole dairy = mucus thing BS?

No, it isn't - if I have even a single glass of milk i start to get really bad mucus in my throat / chest and I find myself constantly having to clear my throat - it's horrible.

Something like 70% of the world's adult population have some sort of lactose intolerance -typically due to a deficiency in the lactase enzyme.

Milk is a completely un-natural food source and not something that adult humans were ever designed to consume.

 

[Newbie_spearo]

Hydrolyzed casein protein is the fastest absorbing protein ever invented (something like 20-30 minutes), absorbed almost twice as fast as the fastest whey protein. Further hydrolyzed casein such as peptopro is 50% hydrolyzed, vs. 3-10% hydrolyzed for hydrolyzed whey.

You are a salesman's dream! I worked in a supplement store for 2 years and am a qualified personal trainer, sure I may not be all that up to date with the latest and greatest products available, but Calcium casseinate is the slowest absorbing powder on the market. I made no mention to your hydrolyzed casein. ASN's whey isolate from memory is 100% hydrolyzed(HP-100, ADVANCED SPORTS NUTRITION, PROTEIN POWDERS, ADVANCED SPORTS NUTRITION, ADVANCED SPORTS NUTRITION HP-100, ADVANCED SPORTS NUTRITION ADVANCED SPORTS NUTRITION) So before making smart remarks about doing research before posting maybe you should practice what you preach. You seem to have been hood winked by a marketing gimmick set to brain wash the idle minded.

 

[Broseidon]

Calcium Casseinate is a protein generally used by body builders who are also using some form of HGH - Human Growth Hormone

That is genuinely one of the most stupid things I have ever read.

 

[ny_er]

No, it isn't - if I have even a single glass of milk i start to get really bad mucus in my throat / chest and I find myself constantly having to clear my throat - it's horrible.

Something like 70% of the world's adult population have some sort of lactose intolerance -typically due to a deficiency in the lactase enzyme.

Milk is a completely un-natural food source and not something that adult humans were ever designed to consume.

I'm just curious though what in milk could cause more mucus?

do you think its a reaction to the lactose? so the mucus re-action would be limited to people with the intolerance

although the Australian study showed that 0% of the people actually increased mucus due to drinking milk

I don't know about milk as un-natural we have been drinking it for thousands of years, at least europeans have, kind of whole different discussion

 

[Broseidon]

I'm just curious though what in milk could cause more mucus?

do you think its a reaction to the lactose? so the mucus re-action would be limited to people with the intolerance

although the Australian study showed that 0% of the people actually increased mucus due to drinking milk

I don't know about milk as un-natural we have been drinking it for thousands of years, at least europeans have, kind of whole different discussion

With me, I'm presuming it's the lactose - I have lacose free protein powder and I'm fine with it whereas milk messes me up

Milk / Dairy is un-natural... it's designed to fatten baby cows, not humans, a completely different species.

Biologically, we're not designed for it. Humans are the only animal on earth that actively drinks the milk of another species and are the only animal to drink milk past weening age - it is totally un-natural as we lack the enzyme to deal with it.

 

[TimoP]

Milk / Dairy is un-natural... it's designed to fatten baby cows, not humans, a completely different species.
Biologically, we're not designed for it. Humans are the only animal on earth that actively drinks the milk of another species and are the only animal to drink milk past weening age - it is totally un-natural as we lack the enzyme to deal with it.

Just to keep discussion in facts, even if a little off topic:
Yes that is true, it is a kind of un-natural thing in nature. But there is evolution (better let the evolution/creationism discussion elsewhere than DB ...)
Just a few years ago human genetic researchers found that about 5000 years ago has happend a mutation in a human gene in Europe, so that this enzyme functions also still as adult. Of course it was rare first, but especially in Northen Europe it came more common, cause there was a lack of food, especially protein, but a cow milk came one main source of protein. Those with that genetic mutation survived better with milk in those hard circumstances.

This mutation is in the human chromosome number 2. The mutation is common in Northern Europe, but rare among original people in other continents. Because of fast global mixing of people, it's no so geographical thing as it use to be "just" a two hundred years ago.
(For this post I read a long interview where one of the world top genetic researcher Leena Palotie tells about this issue with detailed information.)

I live in Northern Europe and here also most adults use (even big amounts of) milk, cheece, yoghurt, ice cream etc. nowadays, too. But not every adult can or want use them even here. Of course pizzas, kebab, hamburgers, coke and beer are more essential for surviving nowadays in the North, too... maybe some new evolution is happening right now...

 

[Broseidon]

For evolution to occur - a genetic mutation must provide exceptional adaptive advantages to the 'mutant individual'. With dairy, this is not the case.

People got on just fine for thousands of years before Dairy and it's not like a Dairy intolerance kills or really seriously inhbits you - there are no grounds for supposing that any form of evolution has occured.

People use the same mistaken evolutionary concept to try to explain why Asians can't handle alcohol whereas Westerners can - people don't stop to think that there are simple genetic differences in nationalities which govern which foods set off an alergic response and which dont, NOT some form of specific evolutionary process based around a food.