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whey protein powder

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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It's a fact of science, not an opinion. Here was the interview of professor Palotie, but in is Finnish because it was in Finnish newspaper.
Aamulehti Sunnuntai | Pääjutut

But this large genetic research has also been in Nature and other science magazines.
It's 18 $ for that Nature article, here is the Google information:
Identification of a variant associated with adult-type ... -
Lactase non-persistence limits the use of fresh milk among adults. .... from less than 5% in northern Europe to almost 100% in southeast Asia7. .... H. & Ruth, M. Phylogenetic analysis of the evolution of lactose digestion in adults. ... PubMed |; Ihalainen, J., Siitari, H., Laine, S., Syvanen, A.-C. & Palotie, ...
www.nature.com/ng/journal/v30/n2/full/ng826.html -

As I said the mutation got common were it gave advantage for surviving, not elsewhere: among the people after ice age going to North were there was not always enough food. Some of them had cows (not before it), to help them survive in those circumstances. And cow has been here very common in last few thousend of years, and just because of milk helping surviving. So late as 1880's tens of percent of people died here in a few years because of bad wheather and therefore not enough food.

And just to remember: almost all genetic mutations are harmful or "neutral", just very few mutations give any advantages. I have read that everybody have about 20 mutations or "mistakes" in genes, but you don't notice them, cause their have not so much effect. There are, as you know, genetic deceases and fatal mutations, too. Prof. Palotie has researched those very much. Because one of my sons has an extremly rare genetic (new) mutation - there are just about 3 "cases" in the whole country - with heavy disadvantages, I'm litterally familiar with this issue. There has not been just a doctor or a professor researching and helping our "case", there have been tens of them from Europe and US. And thanks for their high knowledge and care our "case survived" (if borned just 20 years earlier he wouldn't, with scientific knowledge of that time), and tries now to go to study in to an University.

But as said, not a good idea to go off topic and discuss here in DB about evolution....so better go back to proteins.
 
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I'm not saying that the mutation that keeps the production of lactase 'switch on' past weening isn't a form on evolution - I just fail to see ANY significant causational advantage that an ability to digest lactose gives someone.

It's a passive form of genetic change, not an active form of evolution.

I've drunk milk all of my life, it give's me a few spots and makes me cough - does this mean that someone who can digest milk properly will be able to survive better than I will? No.

Northern Europeans have access to numerous different protein sources - take for example the Zulu tribes in Africa whose primary protein source has been milk for thousands of years - more than 90% of Africans are lactose intollerent.

People who are lactose intolerent will still have drunk milk for sustainence - do you think they really cared about a few spots and coughs? No, nor do I!
 
Here is in Finnish about that prof. interview:
"Geenimutaatiota perimässään kantavat, maitoa sietävät lapset saivat vähitellen lievän valintaedun, kun heistä suurempi osa selvisi hengissä. - Mitä todennäköisemmin mutaatio on niukan ravinnon aikana mahdollistanut paremman ravitsemustilan yksilöillä, joille maidon juonti ei aiheuttanut epämiellyttäviä oireita."

It tell's that key is that when still growing, it gave little advantage if could drink cow milk without any problem, and more of them survived - it was not a big diffrence, just (very) little difference. So when there was a hard situation with food and only a part of population survived, just little difference in surviving over the few thousand years make a difference in evolution. With that mutation you can utilize just little (not much but little) better energy and protein potential of milk and/or don't have extra little problems.

It is a scientific theory based on many scientific researchs. But no theory is all 100 % sure.

You have good points about Africa, I can't say surely why is that. First comes to my mind the really cold winter climate here. You really need much energy in winter time to survive, when it can be weeks -30 - -40 degress Celcius. And sea and lakes covered with half meter of ice, if you think to try fishing. They haven't got warm houses in those days. So maybe a minor difference in energy supply had much more effect here in winter, when it was the worst situation with food with most need of energy. It's different than in Africa. Just try to be in a deep freezer one night with some old style clothes (it's only -18 Celcius there, not -30 - 40 C) . After 60-100 freezings nights you maybe can think, it's not so easy to survive in those days and maybe a little difference in energy supply make little (just little) difference in surviving in those cold winter months when there wasn't enough food.
 
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Northern European diets do include a lot of dairy & there is a lot of heart disease associated with them. I rarely drink neat milk but my intake is probably quite high, as I drink a lot of tea & coffee, eat cereals/porridge, yoghurts and love cheese (but try not to eat too much). A vegetarian diet would be easy for me (I did it for 3 or 4 months in the past) - because dairy & eggs are much the same as meat - but a vegan diet (vegetarian but no dairy or eggs) would be extremely hard.

I thought the mucus was associated with hormones injected into the cattle to help keep them lactating. A mother in the USA told me she was concern that it could cause the premature start of menstration for girls (or perhaps it was mainly marketing hype for organic milk?).

They say soya offers some protection (via female hormone like compounds) against breast cancer (marketing hype?). No information on what that might do to men though:D.
 
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A mother in the USA told me she was concern that it could cause the premature start of menstration for girls.

Cattle in the USA are typically injected with Trenbolone / Finaplex which, as a lot of serious bodybuilder will tell you, gives insane gains in muscle mass. With cattle: more muscle = more beef = more $$$

Trenbolone is exceptionally androgenic, more than 5 time as much as testosterone and as with all androgenic substances there are going to be consequences. Tren is progestenic androgen, meaning it binds to the receptor sites for the female sex hormone, progesterone - which plays a key role in menstruation.

Progesterone is naturally released by the corpus luteum (the egg once it it released by the overy) which triggers thickening of the womb lining in preparation for implantation of a fertilized egg.

Drinking milk contaminated with progestenic hormones thus could in theory very easily cause early menstruation in girls.
 
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They say soya offers some protection (via female hormone like compounds) against breast cancer.

Slight misconception here as a lot of breast cancers are oestrogen linked. Typical first line defence against these types of cancer are anti-oestrogens such as Tamoxifen, Clomid and Arimidex.

Soya contains a chemical that exactly mimics oestrogen and so is really bad news for breast cancer.

Women with breast cancer as well as women taking HRT are advised against consuming soya milk.
 
...it gave little advantage if could drink cow milk without any problem, and more of them survived ...

I still maintain that it is a passive genetic change rather than an active evolution.

Let me give you an example: Scientists say that in 50 years there will be no natural blondes left in the world... why is this? Evolution? No. Evolution only occurs when a mutated trait is exceptionally beneficial to a species, enhancing survival to the point that animals without the trait die out.

This in contrast is a passive genetic change brought about simply by breeding. Dark hair, similar to lactase production is a chromosone linked, dominant trait. There is no evolution involved, it is just that lactose intolerance, alongside blonde hair is simply being bred out.
 
I read all this with interest & although I am not sure if I am fully up to speed on the subject to appropriately comment I have had considerable experience based around nutrition & the effects on individual people.
I am sort of trying to say different people, different lives, different life styles, different metabolisms etc etc = different results based on similar diets = there are no hard & fast diets?
I thrive on high protein diets others suffer!
Most sports people realise what works for them after a few years & although thier chosen diet might be a compromise - such is life!

Sorry if i dont make sense rofl
 
Milk is a completely un-natural food source and not something that adult humans were ever designed to consume.

speaking of consuming natural...
whey protein powder, hydrolyzed protein...?

perhaps i have missed something... :D
 
first of all, insulin levels are not elevated after exercise but after eating high levels of dextrose or glucose. .

Not true dude...Im a type one diabetic...physical activity aids in the insulin process...it WILL lower your blood sugar as your body uses the sugars to make energy. Your body may not produce MORE insulin...but the effect is the same.

No, it isn't - if I have even a single glass of milk i start to get really bad mucus in my throat / chest and I find myself constantly having to clear my throat - it's horrible.

Something like 70% of the world's adult population have some sort of lactose intolerance -typically due to a deficiency in the lactase enzyme.

Milk is a completely un-natural food source and not something that adult humans were ever designed to consume.

This is completely true, but it sounds like you are lactose intolerant... I will have mucus in my throat after downing like 5 double cheese burgers though...same thing. I generally steer clear of dairy, just for the reason that it is a non natural food source...
 
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well, as to the mucus stuff..

i am, or was, a big user of dairy.
Never noticed anything until we started to freedive.

Then, during a dive session, i'd be covered in snot for the WHOLE session.
I never put anything down to milk or oranges or lactose intolerance until i started to read this forum.

Then...

Switched out to Soya milk, stopped cheese and yoghurt etc.

Now, equalise much better, don't get headfulls of snot although a tiny bit is sometimes there.

However, I still do use isolate whey as part of my diet and training.

I don't know whether this 'whey' is what is causing this residual mucus whilst diving but it sure is a possibility.
 
Not true dude...Im a type one diabetic...physical activity aids in the insulin process...it WILL lower your blood sugar as your body uses the sugars to make energy. Your body may not produce MORE insulin...but the effect is the same.

I am a type one diabetic as well, and insulin levels are not elevated during exercise, they are actually lowered due to your muscles utilizing the excess sugar/energy and your body not needing to release insulin to do the same. Activity does not aid in the insulin process since insulin is not a process but a hormone. In a diabetic - as you should know - we do not have the ability to switch on/off insulin production and as a result need to increase carbohydrate/sugar consumption prior to exercise.
 
I am a type one diabetic as well, and insulin levels are not elevated during exercise, they are actually lowered due to your muscles utilizing the excess sugar/energy and your body not needing to release insulin to do the same. Activity does not aid in the insulin process since insulin is not a process but a hormone. In a diabetic - as you should know - we do not have the ability to switch on/off insulin production and as a result need to increase carbohydrate/sugar consumption prior to exercise.

Totally incorrect.

When a non-diabetic person exercises, pancreatic insulin output decreases. This seems counter-intuitive since the muscles are working hard and therefore require more glucose to be transported from the blood into the cells but there are two reasons that glucose transported occurs with less available insulin.

1) During exercise insulin becomes much more efficient. The mechanism of this effect is not fully understood, but it helps overcomes the reduction in circulating insulin.

2) Exercise activates non-insulin mediated glucose transport pathways. These pathways are not sufficient to handle the load in the absence of insulin, but do increase the effective insulin efficiency.

In diabetics, circulating levels of insulin do not react to exercise. When the muscles demand glucose and insulin becomes more
efficient, blood glucose plummets and makes the person hypoglycemic - that is why you need to increase carbohydrate/sugar consumption prior to exercise.
 
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Ignore Newbie_spearo... the guy doesn't have a clue about anything, it seems.

You can get really nice soy protein powder. Rice protein is also an option, my girlfriend buys this one from iHerb: (it's vegan as well)

NutriBiotic, Vanilla Rice Protein, 3lb. (1.36 kg) - iHerb.com

The taste is ok, she likes it, I'm not so keen. It's very good for baking with, although she usually just blends it up with fruit as a shake.

Hemp protein is a great option, it also contains a complete amino-acid profile, which is rare for non-animal based foods... the problems is... it tastes like mud. Well, the one I tried did anyway!

Another option is Pea or Egg protein, although Egg obviously would be vegan! Have a look at this site:

Protein - Categories List - iHerb.com
 
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Ignore Newbie_spearo... the guy doesn't have a clue about anything, it seems.

You can get really nice soy protein powder.

The taste is ok, she likes it, I'm not so keen.

Do you have any idea what an opinion is Broseidon? Something makes me think not, maybe it's your pig headed attitude towards life I don't know but the last time I checked this was a public forum and we are here to give our opinions, not personally attack other forum members. I have tried soy protein and found it rather nasty compared to whey protein, maybe it was simply the brand I tasted. you certainly aren't trying to make any friends here, but by all means put other members down and tell people they are stupid, you'll get far in life with that attitude!
 
Dude - think about your posts: You make blanket, ignorant statements such as:

"Soy protein is horrible"

"Caseinate Protein is only taken by bodybuilders who take Human Growth hormone" - possibly the most stupid thing I have ever read

You are not giving opinions - you are presenting your ignorant opinions as fact. An opinion, just like I expressed about Rice protein, which you kindly highlighted for me, would be:

"I personally don't like soy protein"

If you want to call me pig headed for trying to actually place some fact into this thread, fine, doesn't bother me. You've made numerous errors in your statements, such as you dismisal of another forum members post on insulin process, where you proudly stated that you are diabetic and know exactly how it all works. Amusingly your post was completely wrong, I even sent you a friendly PM to alert you - sorry for being so pig headed ;)

Personally, I find it a little sad when someone thinks so highly of their own opinion that they can't accept criticism and think hey, maybe I don't know quite as much as I think I do. Food for thought, maybe?

I know this is meant to be a 'friendly' forum and the Mods will most likely just delete this post, but I hope you get to read it first and I hope that maybe you can reflect on some of your posts.

I know that in your sig it says, 'Never doubt yourself' - I think that maybe you should :)
 
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Consider this an official warning - next person who mouths off in a contradictory manner to our forum rules will be getting a temporary holiday from DeeperBlue...

Insults and abuse will not be tolerated.

Ben
 
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