Yep..Another which gun should I get, thread.

[Danny.c]

I'm looking for a carbon cuttlefish style gun between 1.1m 1-2m that can handle being over powered.with reel lol.(I said the other day I would never use a reel)I have been inspired by a certain Mediterranean spero.I will probly use a 8mm shaft.
C4 Uraykay 105cm-120cm=$1146 https://www.scubastore.com/scuba-diving/c4-urukay/70315/p
C4 Graphite carbotitanium megaforce 116cm T700=$927
Aimrite king venom roller-115cm=$1400
These are ones that interest me the most ATM.
I like the price of the t700 but I don't know what the top of the head looks like as there is no photos of the head on the net.
Does the T700 have the same head band system as a Uraykay? And which would you pick.I don't like the mister dark band style at all.
Are the c4' rail guns?? If not I will not buy either.
The c4's seem better value than any aimrite.Am I missing some thing.
I want something that shoots fast and hard with minimal recoil.
Would love to here some pros and cons.
Cheers Dan.

 

[Danny.c]

Update-Well after hours of searching all The guns I mentioned above have some very negative points and they all work out to be roughly the same price in the long run.
So I decided to look farther afield.The hunt for short powerful continues,I am just learning now about 14m small ID bands.To be continued

 

[Mr. X]

If you want minimal recoil, why are you focused on lightweight carbon fibre spearguns & 8mm spears?! Big, thick, long heavy spear going one way - presumably very fast as I expect you'll want it to be very powerful too - and then a light carbon speargun reacting to that going the other way...

Rollers should help a lot with recoil. Mass should help too.

Why an 8mm spear? 14mm bands - how many, 3?

How about a railgun - Rob Allen, Mako/Rabitech, etc. - looks like you plan to go after something big.
Or a woodie (Daryl Wong, Riffe, Setting Steel, etc.).

 

[Danny.c]

Thanks I was hoping you would chime in mr x .Yes I want to be able too still hunt the reef but get into the the big dogs on the drop offs,got access to some better spots .I did not know carbon was lighter than ali.I had it in my head that a carbon gun would be suited to 8mm shaft.I want better penetration.
I want to stay 120cm or under for gun length.
I see all these divers using short huge ass carbon guns with heaps of power on youtube.They use 3 bands so I was heading that way but maybe 2 would do it.First I need a gun that can handle the strain on the trigger and barrel. I normally would use 16mm but I just seen all this hype on the 14mm small bore rubber.
My spearfishing has allways mainly been about cray fish and shooting the odd fish with my gun being more for protection,I want to go hunt some big fish now,but not tuna )

 

[Rugbyfan]

Go for a classic woodie with 3 bands. Like totemsub or achilles. They r custom made and u can explain ur needs and will make u a gun u want. riffe and similar mass product guns manufacturers cant do that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Danny.c]

Go for a classic woodie with 3 bands. Like totemsub or achilles. They r custom made and u can explain ur needs and will make u a gun u want. riffe and similar mass product guns manufacturers cant do that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the great reply,I was talking to custom builders today,might be the go.

 

[Broseidon]

Have you looked at Bleutec?

http://www.bleutec.eu/en/speargunsaaccessories/spearguns/carbon.html

I think Nautilus and SpearAmerica are their US importers:

www.nautilusspearfishing.com
www.spearamerica.com

I think you can get a custom paint job if you order direct from Bleutec though.

I've never used C4 guns but to my mind, they look more "style over substance". They are definitely not true rail guns.

 

[Broseidon]

I'll take a Raptor in Green please!

 

[Danny.c]

Hi brosiedon,Idid check them out and Liked what I had read about them,Its hard to get these style of guns inAUS at fair prices,I found a seatec geko carbon for $4oo which is the cheapest Factory carbon I had found and salvimar sapen carbon for $650.Any thing else like this is over $1000 and with out spears and reel,custom gun will be around that price too,weighing up options for a few days but I might do some searches on the geko cause it looks ok deal but hope its not too light weight.
Thanks for the great reply.

 

[Broseidon]

Glad to be of help mate! I didn't realise you were in Oz.

You could purchase direct from Bleutec? As you're buying from outside Europe, they shouldn't charge you VAT (20% tax) - so there's a 20% off the bat. I ship stuff from Europe to Australia every week - it's not that expensive.

I'm not sure what to think about Seatec - they look like nice guns BUT I hated mine - had to get rid of it. They are big, heavy lumps. I couldn't hit a thing with it - it was a new version Gabbiano 90 - kicked like a mule with 20mm bands - horrible thing!

 

[Mr. X]

...As you're buying from outside Europe, they shouldn't charge you VAT (20% tax) - so there's a 20% off the bat. I ship stuff from Europe to Australia every week - it's not that expensive...

Might not here for much longer.

 

[Mr. X]

...I see all these divers using short huge ass carbon guns with heaps of power on youtube.They use 3 bands so I was heading that way but maybe 2 would do it....

Good point. For a long RA railgun I would think carbon barrel is a popular option. I believe they add weights to the muzzle/barrel but that is probably for balance rather than for recoil. Perhaps one of the speargun builders could enlighten us on recoil (Foxfish?).

BTW I have nothing against C4s, I think they are rather gorgeous, the Ferrari of the spearfishing world.

Also, I think Mako (& possibly RA) offer triple rubber muzzles as an option now.

 

[Broseidon]

Would triple rubbers on a standard railgun even be usable? RA's are light, especially the carbons - I'd guess the recoil would be too brutal?

Danny, have you looked at rollers? MVD seem to be killing it at the moment with theirs - the videos of their invert rollers show them to be basically recoilless...

https://www.mvd-retail.gr/index.php...invert-roller-g2-special-edition-versa-detail

They even do a double roller:

https://www.mvd-retail.gr/index.php...uble-roller/mvd-predator-double-roller-detail

- - -

It's fun looking at all these cannons that I'll never, ever need - especially when my gun of choice is a 60cm, single banded pop-gun

 

[foxfish]

Mr X, I am not really an expert on this but, I can tell you from my own personal experience that .. owning and shooting a 100cm heavy wood gun, with say 2 x 16mm bands at 3 x stretch, is a joy!
However there is always a compromise, a single band carbon gun might kick like a mule but they are easy to carry, track well and shoot straight. A big woody, once loaded & lined up for the shot, is great but, tracking and even carting it around on land is not so much fun!
On the other hand a 100cm dry barrel air gun has the power the tracking a super smooth shot.
There seems a place for all three in my armoury

 

[Mr. X]

Perhaps the trick, for dealing with speargun recoil is to make your body a "unit" with the speargun, so that your own body mass factors in with that of the light carbon speargun (e.g. perhaps don't hold it with a bent arm?). Much like holding a shotgun tight into your shoulder - if you don't you typically get a bruised shoulder from the recoil kick.

I gather recoil is a Conservation of Momentum problem (& Newtons 3rd law of motion). So the mass of your spear (Ms) x the velocity of the spear (I guess "muzzle velocity" would be the thing to consider, since the spear will be accelerating initially, by which I mean the velocity when the force of the bands is no longer pulling/acceleration the spear forward), Vm, will equal the mass of your speargun (ideally plus your body weight), Mg x the recoil velocity that the speargun (& ideally you), Vr, will move in the opposite direction.

i.e. MsVm = MgVr

So if the left side is big (i.e. heavy spear moving fast) then the right side, which is equal, will be big too. That means a big mass (for speargun + ideally you) and/or a high recoil velocity - but you want that (Vr) to be low.

Recoil velocity, Vr = MsVm / Mg

i.e. for low recoil velocity, you need Mg to be high - where Mg is the mass of the speargun, ideally plus you own body mass.

 

[Danny.c]

I'm not sure what to think about Seatec - they look like nice guns BUT I hated mine - had to get rid of it. They are big, heavy lumps. I couldn't hit a thing with it - it was a new version Gabbiano 90 - kicked like a mule with 20mm bands - horrible thing![/QUOTE]
Thank you all again with the awesome replys.
After watching roller gun pool testing vs 14mm small id bans ,I have gone off rollers,I was considering that option for sure ,the other negative of rollers for me was the added mass of the muzzel is not so appealing,2 x14 small id seems to be the best bands upto 120cm guns but this can still be argued I guess ,fast to load as well.Later on down the track I will experiment more with the idea but they are great looking guns you have suggested,me likes MVD a lot ).
Now the kicking.As a kid I had the luxury of firing many high powerd hunting rifles like 308 ,444 etc..so recoil might not annoy me too much as long as my aim want suffer,these are things only the individual will be able to tell.Plus 14mm bands might tame said recoil.

Taking X's ,Mr x's first reply I might just use 7mm-7.5 shaft size instead of jumping into as 8mm high VR,which might be too much for 14mm bands.also I fire with a fairly stiff arm.
I don't want too offend RA at all but I did not feel comfortable with the handle feel of RA guns But My wet suits and alot of my gear I buy is RA ,I love all his gear but not overly keen on his guns.

 

[Danny.c]

Mr X, I am not really an expert on this but, I can tell you from my own personal experience that .. owning and shooting a 100cm heavy wood gun, with say 2 x 16mm bands at 3 x stretch, is a joy!
However there is always a compromise, a single band carbon gun might kick like a mule but they are easy to carry, track well and shoot straight. A big woody, once loaded & lined up for the shot, is great but, tracking and even carting it around on land is not so much fun!
On the other hand a 100cm dry barrel air gun has the power the tracking a super smooth shot.
There seems a place for all three in my armoury

Great points there FoxFish I like my small cray gun pneumatic 40 its awesome little thing,A freind of mine is selling a brand new never fired mares 90 pneumatic dirt cheap,so I will get that of him soon to try,But yeah want hurt to have a good range of guns for all situations ,I really don't like mixing sand with pneumatic though as I love shore diving as well.

 

[foxfish]

You need a dry barrel kit to really get the best from an air gun, never had any issues with sand myself and that is after 40 years of using air guns from sand beaches.
In fact I have found all my air guns to be low maintenance and trouble free.
The low recoil and super straight trajectory of a dry barrel air gun is very addictive, always a compromise thought as they can be tough to load and quite expensive to buy.

 

[Danny.c]

You need a dry barrel kit to really get the best from an air gun, never had any issues with sand myself and that is after 40 years of using air guns from sand beaches.
In fact I have found all my air guns to be low maintenance and trouble free.
The low recoil and super straight trajectory of a dry barrel air gun is very addictive, always a compromise thought as they can be tough to load and quite expensive to buy.

The gun is a Mares cyrano evo 90cm.Im getting it for only $150,I paid that amount for the 40cm lol.He did not know about the dry barrel kit,sounds good though.I will see if they exist in Aus.

 

[Broseidon]

... dry barrel air gun is very addictive, always a compromise thought as they can be tough to load and quite expensive to buy...

...and in my very, very limited experience, they may try to end your life prematurely...