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200m deep down

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

Will Patrick make the 200m barrier?

  • Yes he will, and everything will be ok !!

    Votes: 45 41.3%
  • Yes, but with big problems...

    Votes: 17 15.6%
  • No, he will "chicken out" and cancel the dive.

    Votes: 14 12.8%
  • No, he did a try... but not really.

    Votes: 13 11.9%
  • No, No, No...

    Votes: 20 18.3%

  • Total voters
    109
Jason Billows

Jason Billows

New Member
Sep 17, 2002
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Does anyone know what rules and regulations Guinness uses to ratify freediving records? Do they default to AIDA or do they have other requirements of their own? Perhaps Patrick has set a record in the eyes of Guinness, but not AIDA?
 
Adrian

Adrian

Deeper Blue Beachcomber
Supporter
Nov 23, 2002
2,691
533
218
68
For something to be official it has to have the backing of an "official" organization or entity. Who has the authority for making the record "official" in Patricks case? An Egyptian Tourist Board? Suunto? The mere fact of the verified reality of the dive isn't enough to "officialize" it. Who was there to lend their authority?

His dive for me is enough to make it a definite World Record, I certainly believe he made it and trust the people involved simply because I tend to trust people until proven otherwise.

Also, the word "official" can be very subjective, for AIDA it's AIDA, for CMAS it's CMAS, etc, we have to take care of our language and definitions.

But at the end of the day.....the guy dived to 209 meters! And that's what matters.

Adrian
 
P

pehtran

Well-Known Member
Jul 25, 2003
163
13
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51
Alun, I respect that you find my statement incredible - it is just MY point of view. I was and am inspired by his result too -
pushing the frontiers of freediving performance and our understanding of breath hold diving
Just not inspired by his statements and attitude.
 
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samdive

samdive

Mermaid, Musician and Marketer
Nov 12, 2002
3,221
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I know Howard tried to get Guinness to attend the last Cyprus competition when there were difficulties with AIDA Rules (which eventually got resolved). Not SURE but I think Guinness were aligned with CMAS on freediving. Might be worth using that link up the thread somewhere to email them and ask. Alki was also trying to get Guinness to ratify records so he might know.

And Alun - if Patrick is not interested in the politics of freediving, why mention AIDA in his press release like that? I think Patrick is almost obsessed with the politics of freediving which is why he is deliberately causing such a rumpus!

The "official" organisation that Patrick is referring to is the Red Sea Association - when I worked in Hurghada this was basically the organisation that made sure that anyone teaching or guiding scuba dives was qualified to do so. All they did was check your PADI card once a year and issue you with a license to work in the Red Sea (Hurghada area only). I didn't know they had anything to do with freediving. They certainly did not a couple of years ago when I was there.

Sam
 
tylerz

tylerz

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2002
733
114
133
To those that responded to correct me on my reference to "Guinness", I did not make myself clear. In saying "Guinnes would take it as such." I was implying that Guinnes would take a performance as a world record inconsiderate of other organizations. If there can be multiple organizations that say something can be a world record inconsiderate of another, then that is the same as any new organization, including one man organizations (ie. patrick's), having the same right to claim a world record under his own rules. So, I was not speaking as though I knew guiness would take it as is. I was just pointing out that they could take it as it was without caring whether you all accept it as an AIDA world record.

So, I have to still insist that inconsiderate of how bad his publicity tactics may be/sound, inconsiderate of whether he is comparing himself to the competitive mainstream, inconsiderate of whether he is so caught up in the politics he seems to abhor, he still has every right to say it is a world record. And the rest of the world has the right to say "... what organization does the record relate to and how would you compare it to other organizations." You are forgetting that an individual is an organization and one organization is no better than another organization, in absolute.

If he and others wants to tell the world about their performances, that is inspiring. It tells kids and dreamers everywhere of potential. It tells people that he or others have abilities and information that can become useful to others. With the world thrilled by blogs at this moment, what is the difference? I would say his communication and fixation on defending against invisible enemies does not make for a good role model, but his accomplishments and intent to promote those accomplishments are as good as any.

I think the issues should be isolated from each other here. One issue is his approach to his publicity. Most of us would probably agree it could use a lot of work. Second issue is whether it is wrong for him to claim that he performed a world record performance. Well no matter how I look at it, as explained throughout these posts of mine, he has done everything he requires to make such a claim and all of us have a reaonable suggestion to accept the comparison to other performances although no officiated and not precisely. Meaning we can all probably see that he would have made the dive on the day he wanted if he hadn't kept pushing past 200m. At the point he reached 200m, I think it is pretty easy to understand he wanted to go further. So, is it deeper than 167m, or 170m, or whatever it was, and can it be compared? I don't think any of us can reasonably claim it is not safe to say that 40m difference is too much to suggest he can't compare his performance to the previous best, even with handicaps of different performance rules.
 
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samdive

samdive

Mermaid, Musician and Marketer
Nov 12, 2002
3,221
278
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even Patrick is gonna have a hard time beating the Guinness Record - this is the closest thing I could find on their site:

Deepest Dive By A Mammal
The deepest dive by a mammal was made by a bull sperm whale (Physeter macrocephalus) off the coast of Dominica, in the Caribbean, in 1991. Scientists from the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute recorded the dive to a depth of 2,000 m (6,500 ft). The dive lasted one hour 13 minutes.



and without even needing a sled!! : )
 
DeepThought

DeepThought

Freediving Sloth
Sep 8, 2002
2,334
410
173
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samdive said:
even Patrick is gonna have a hard time beating the Guinness Record - this is the closest thing I could find on their site:

Deepest Dive By A Mammal
The deepest dive by a mammal was made by a bull sperm whale (Physeter macrocephalus) off the coast of Dominica, in the Caribbean, in 1991. Scientists from the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute recorded the dive to a depth of 2,000 m (6,500 ft). The dive lasted one hour 13 minutes.



and without even needing a sled!! : )
Were there any judges and media on the site? Was there an in-water judge? Was the depth measured on the line or by computer? Was there a doping test? How about surface protocol?
I heard it was Unassisted Constant Ballast, can anyone approve?
 
bam bam

bam bam

New Member
Sep 22, 2001
99
13
0
true guinness would accept the record regardless of other organizations, but it would still have to conform to thier rules.

as for him not wanting to be identified with the small insular, then where's his reference to Seb's 192m dive! instead he goes and uses AIDAs 'official' record!

this is a problem which has been tuched on before, with different organisations.

For instance i can make up my own organisation and do anything i like, even if it is less than others, and still claim to have the record!!! Ok a bit silly but i can say it if i want! That's the problem, just like when Tanya Streeter claimed the constant without fins of 35m even though Yasmine had a deeper dive officiated with another organisation. And that is only but one case, there are others :duh

So may just go and claim a world record :thankyou
 
SanSan

SanSan

New Member
Apr 22, 2005
320
24
0
42
hehe it won't be long and well all claim to hold a WR. :duh
Athought it is a mans right to claim to hold a WR regardles of the "oficial" recognition i don't think this is such a good idea. Just think of the mess...

There are already too many organisations that confirm records just imagine everybody having its own...

In my oppiniont it all the organisation confirming records at this time should be combined and so we would have only one world record holder as it should be.

I also have to say im totaly disapointed by Patricks attitude. Sorry man, no freediving spirit and attitude in you. Peace!
 
P

Patfan

New Member
Jun 23, 2005
36
5
0
45
Jason Billows said:
Does anyone know what rules and regulations Guinness uses to ratify freediving records? Do they default to AIDA or do they have other requirements of their own? Perhaps Patrick has set a record in the eyes of Guinness, but not AIDA?


don't think he perticularly gives a damn..... :hmm
 
P

Patfan

New Member
Jun 23, 2005
36
5
0
45
Adrian said:
Also, the word "official" can be very subjective, for AIDA it's AIDA, for CMAS it's CMAS, etc, we have to take care of our language and definitions.

But at the end of the day.....the guy dived to 209 meters! And that's what matters.

Adrian

refreshing words man...

and for those still splitting hairs.... after footage and Sunnto's computers (used by aida)...... who really need somebody to say it's official so they can sleep better at night.... sleep tight zzz

" The World Underwater Federation confirmed Patrick Musimu's no-limit, free diving world record Tuesday.

The Belgian diver reached a depth of 687.6 feet on June 30 on Egypt's Red Sea coast -- beating the previous mark of 561 feet, set in 2004.

NAUI Worldwide also ratified the record-breaking dive. Musimu has previously held the free diving world record."

http://www.redding.com/redd/sports
 
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Ben Gowland

Ben Gowland

Aplysia gowlandicus
Apr 4, 2002
365
41
118
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Guiness used to use AIDA as their accepted body.

CMAS gave up ratifying deep freediving records years ago, so I'm suprised by the comment above about them confirming Patricks dive. Have they started this again? I thought they were diving in 'the box' and doing dynamics only?
 
B

Bluehugh

Registered Diver
Mar 4, 2004
59
18
98
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" The World Underwater Federation confirmed..." WUF???

Congratulations to Patrick for his GREAT Performance but I don't like his "I'm the best of the world" attitude.

Just my opinion,
Edu
 
Ale Andres

Ale Andres

Alejandro Andres
Jun 23, 2005
169
13
108
49
Patfan said:
" The World Underwater Federation confirmed Patrick Musimu's no-limit, free diving world record Tuesday.

What federation is this !!!!???? CMAS ????
 
Golfinho

Golfinho

NoFundo DoMar TemDinhiero
Aug 31, 2004
212
14
0
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Way too much politics in hear, what a dive though!!! Bravo....

More freediving and less Bo***X please!!!
 
J

jome

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2004
1,289
200
153
45
After sleeping a good nights sleep and reading my previous post again (which I now deleted), all I can say what a useless rant. I would like to apologize to anyone involved in the dive...Obviously what you achived is a great thing for all freedivers, regardless of who ratified it or not...I hope I'm done with this subject now :)
 
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P

Patfan

New Member
Jun 23, 2005
36
5
0
45
Golfinho said:
Way too much politics in hear, what a dive though!!! Bravo....

More freediving and less Bo***X please!!!


Bravoooooooo I sooo agree
 
T

Tommy85

New Member
Jun 20, 2005
11
1
0
37
I dont fully understand what has happened, i read about Patrick on a web site and it said he went to i think 209m but was sick afterwards and they werent sure if he was going to attemp the record or not, can some one please fill me in on what exactly has happended and what the uproar is all about?

I had never heard of Seb going 192m before can some one please tell me what this comment was refering to also, thanks
 
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