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200m deep down
- Thread startertodeep
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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Leovinci: thanks for the tip, that was pretty cool! Too bad I don't speak a word of dutch of french...The document seems to dip into his training quite a bit.
Seems like totally different person in that document than what one might imagine from the posts he made. Seems like a nice guy, but determined as hell...
Seems like totally different person in that document than what one might imagine from the posts he made. Seems like a nice guy, but determined as hell...
jome said:
Having had the opportunity of chatting with the guy... you summed him up pretty accurately...
I hope he gets to do a few shows in english because what he describes as far as sensations and feelings down there is pretty impressive... but somthing he really does seem to keep underlining is that you need alot more than the equalisation technique to make it there..... and back
ADR - My name is Victor and live in Brusslels - by the way yes.... patfan = " patrick fan" 
- Met him few times the got me curious and especially when he mentioned alot of his training was outside the water he got my full attention -
I'm less than an amateur I'm still at the breathing exercises because as said in previous posts I'm not big fan of swiming or diving and the such. My main reason for being here was simply out of curiosity and I've found it pretty hard to leave or shut my big mouth But i have to say the different forums,threads and people I've met - all the positive stuff makes you just want to join the fun...
is that what you were looking for as an explanation ?
- Met him few times the got me curious and especially when he mentioned alot of his training was outside the water he got my full attention - I'm less than an amateur I'm still at the breathing exercises because as said in previous posts I'm not big fan of swiming or diving and the such. My main reason for being here was simply out of curiosity and I've found it pretty hard to leave or shut my big mouth But i have to say the different forums,threads and people I've met - all the positive stuff makes you just want to join the fun...
is that what you were looking for as an explanation ?
Patrick's site is updated with what I think is an excellent post dive Q&A
http://www.patrickmusimu.com/QA.html
http://www.patrickmusimu.com/QA.html
I wonder how much of the mental peace, quiet and losing your sensory input that all of the really deep divers always talk about is just due to being narked out of your mind?
Being wasted is the best catalyst for religious feelings.
Being wasted is the best catalyst for religious feelings.
Oligo said:
Not too far from the truth I don't think
when you look at the different civilisations around the world from american indians to The native Australians ( can't spell their real name
), passing by the orient alot of them believe in entering a trans like state where you empty your mind and transcend out of your body into a higher plain. On a plain where by premonitions, visions & council for the community are given... I suppose then that whether it is with narcotics, music or dancing on the line of consciousness at deep depths spirituality is definetly a "state of mind"....
pretty much like me on Friday of last week :friday rofl ....I loved everybody
Very kewl! and different.
Seems like hours.
He took his hand from the nose at about 25 seconds into the dive, from the profile it seems to be 40-50meters.
I guess his wet equalization included floding middle ear?
Seems like hours.
He took his hand from the nose at about 25 seconds into the dive, from the profile it seems to be 40-50meters.
I guess his wet equalization included floding middle ear?
Michael,
My guess is his sinuses and middle ears were already flooded and his hand was on his nose to hold the fluid in. When pressure was great enough then he didn’t need to hold his nose anymore. The Eustachian tubes are made to drain excess fluid as well as excess air pressure from the middle ear. They usually work real well at letting things out, especially when the head is upright. It’s getting air in them that gives some of us problems.
His statement, “(ACF) will soon help to boost all the depth categories” is intriguing. Is it prophecy?
I can’t help but wonder how difficult it is to get water out of the middle ear. Like some have suggested, maybe the risk of infection is quite small if sterile saline solution is used. Personally I can easily reverse equalize my ears by holding my nose and sucking. But for much water to come out, air would have to go in. Maybe it takes both reverse equalizing and equalizing multiple times to put the air in and draw the water out.
don
My guess is his sinuses and middle ears were already flooded and his hand was on his nose to hold the fluid in. When pressure was great enough then he didn’t need to hold his nose anymore. The Eustachian tubes are made to drain excess fluid as well as excess air pressure from the middle ear. They usually work real well at letting things out, especially when the head is upright. It’s getting air in them that gives some of us problems.
His statement, “(ACF) will soon help to boost all the depth categories” is intriguing. Is it prophecy?
I can’t help but wonder how difficult it is to get water out of the middle ear. Like some have suggested, maybe the risk of infection is quite small if sterile saline solution is used. Personally I can easily reverse equalize my ears by holding my nose and sucking. But for much water to come out, air would have to go in. Maybe it takes both reverse equalizing and equalizing multiple times to put the air in and draw the water out.
don
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I think actually that the following should describe the method he uses in all of its stages. I haven't even looked at any videos, but beleive this due to the fact that it is the easiest way.
1) Frenzel
2) Mouthfill at the deepest depth shallow enough to make it easy enough to accomplish without requiring physical contortions followed by Frenzel-Fattah
3) BTV
Now, 1 and 2 are obvious. The reason I think that BTV is out for the early part of the descent is the rate thereof. The reason I think BTV is his secret ace in the hole is that that solution is easier than trying to flood one's sinuses any other way. If you are not holding your nose and start to descend, the air bubble in your sinuses will start to compress under pressure, and water will begin to enter to nose. The thing about BTV that non-practicers probably don't realize is that it does not require you to push air from anywhere. It can be done with the soft pallate closed, and without straining thoracicly whatsoever. With the eustachian tubes opened up, as water compresses the remaining air in the sinus cavities, the level will rise potentialy without limit. I am not sure how freely water flows through the eustachian tubes, and what difficulties could be encountered once you had water in your ear. If that would complicate things, then the limit of this method would be acheived once the water level had risen to the level of the eustachian opening inside the sinus cavity. The only other issue I see is throat squeeze, but depending on how much of that moutfill was reserved, trying to frenzel without opening the soft pallate could keep the throat pressurized up to a pretty reasonable depth.
1) Frenzel
2) Mouthfill at the deepest depth shallow enough to make it easy enough to accomplish without requiring physical contortions followed by Frenzel-Fattah
3) BTV
Now, 1 and 2 are obvious. The reason I think that BTV is out for the early part of the descent is the rate thereof. The reason I think BTV is his secret ace in the hole is that that solution is easier than trying to flood one's sinuses any other way. If you are not holding your nose and start to descend, the air bubble in your sinuses will start to compress under pressure, and water will begin to enter to nose. The thing about BTV that non-practicers probably don't realize is that it does not require you to push air from anywhere. It can be done with the soft pallate closed, and without straining thoracicly whatsoever. With the eustachian tubes opened up, as water compresses the remaining air in the sinus cavities, the level will rise potentialy without limit. I am not sure how freely water flows through the eustachian tubes, and what difficulties could be encountered once you had water in your ear. If that would complicate things, then the limit of this method would be acheived once the water level had risen to the level of the eustachian opening inside the sinus cavity. The only other issue I see is throat squeeze, but depending on how much of that moutfill was reserved, trying to frenzel without opening the soft pallate could keep the throat pressurized up to a pretty reasonable depth.
Jason,
I don’t think he did 1 & 2, because he said his technique allowed him to descend faster than anyone had ever done on a sled before. “2 m/s speed of descent”. Also Patrick was already known as superb athlete who’s only limit was his difficulty in equalization. It was for this reason he trained with Pipen to learn wet equalization and Pipen last revisions of wet equalization were to fill his middle ears ahead of his dive by making shallow warm-up dives before hand.
I just don’t think the Patrick fooled around with air equalization techniques with the rate of speed he descended from the get go when quick equalization is the most important.
In my opinion the question is not if he used water to equalize his middle ears, but how much else? The statement on his site, “His equalization technique allow him to drop fast without stressing his thoracic cage” is intriguing! The epiglottis is above the thoracic cage. How could someone allow water into thorax and keep it from going all the way down into the lungs?
don
I don’t think he did 1 & 2, because he said his technique allowed him to descend faster than anyone had ever done on a sled before. “2 m/s speed of descent”. Also Patrick was already known as superb athlete who’s only limit was his difficulty in equalization. It was for this reason he trained with Pipen to learn wet equalization and Pipen last revisions of wet equalization were to fill his middle ears ahead of his dive by making shallow warm-up dives before hand.
I just don’t think the Patrick fooled around with air equalization techniques with the rate of speed he descended from the get go when quick equalization is the most important.
In my opinion the question is not if he used water to equalize his middle ears, but how much else? The statement on his site, “His equalization technique allow him to drop fast without stressing his thoracic cage” is intriguing! The epiglottis is above the thoracic cage. How could someone allow water into thorax and keep it from going all the way down into the lungs?
don
donmoore said:
This statement was intended to suggest not that he is flooding his thorax but rather that his equalization technique does not involve forcefully expelling air from the lungs at the last possible moment in order to do a mouthfill. Flooding your thorax is equivalent to aspirating fluids. BTV is not an air equalization technique in this instance because it is substantially identical to the case of using the frenzel to push water into the sinus cavities. The difference is whether it goes through your mouth first.