2014 lunocet

[noa]

My fin is in customs
I have shimano carbon sole shoes waiting for it...
custom carbon shoes is something on my mind for a while back (even in bi fins context) but I have no access to such shoes or tools to make them. It would be sinful if your friend doesn't try something out (Please let us know if something comes up!)
I can find a way to cast my feet and send to you ASAP

The main advantage would be comfort... although it's more rigid, since it's the shape of the foot, there are no hot spot as pressure is applied evenly and there's less need for strapping.... also the shoe can be very streamlined

check the http://www.simmonscyclingshoes.com some wicked looking shoes ($$$$)

These things are absolutely amazing ! And would be perfect for our use.

 

[noa]

I will try to Skype Matt today. I'm 99% he will be keen Matt is a "cycling fiend" as well. The dude rode his recumbent bike from Seattle to Mexico city! The shoe project would have multiple applications for him.

I have another mate who is a Sports Podiatrist lol If I can't get something happening, I'll need my "head read" I should have more info by the time you get up tomorrow morning!

Well AT, your idea sounds spot on. We would all be super interested in getting on board in designing/testing/using new shoes that would evolve with the Lunocet. Maybe you have just created a project for yourself...

 

[AquaThylacine]

If anyone is awake ... lol ... before I ring Matt the "composites expert/F1 guru" ... it would be fantastic if as many people as possible could answer the following question ;

What technical features would you most like to see in personalised custom shoes designed for the Lunocet Pro?
The physics and hydrodynamics experts out there, please give as much detail as possible

Kind Regards,
Aqua Thylacine

 

[Apneaddict]

The rear / heel of the shoe should have to be the "leading edge" with the toes as the trailing edge.

It's all about low drag.

The tops and bottoms of the shoes also move up and down through the water, so these profiles could benefit from being drag-reduced (not a flat profile) as well.

Tell him to make sure to take up valuable F1 team wind tunnel time, for our underwater cycling shoes. They're leading the F1 season... So they can afford to slow down on aero development for our purposes. LOL

For the record, I love high tech, high performance materials and sexy engineering, but I use $40 neoprene triathlon shoes with my Lunocet.

 

[Chipswim]

I like this turn of events!! Very very neat!

Like AA wrote the shoe front becomes the back and the back becomes the front. The grip of the heel pocket becomes a crucial power transfer point as does the top of the shoe over the toes.... So up is down and down is up~ ~ ~ Also the heel height and Achilles's area cushion are important since normal position for us is very pointed toes. I haven't found that to be a problem but it could be.

This is a purely coincidental feature of my "Pro" shoes but I like it a lot.. There is a pointed plastic molding on the heel..... They appear to be designed to go backwards. The design feature is so subtle I can barely get a photo of it.....

I would observe that our "off label" repurposing of cycling shoes works so well I wonder how much there is to be gained? We are talking very fine tuning here!

 

[noa]

+ 1 on what AA and Chip have said. Plus, the Simmons shoes that Marginatus showed us are "mold wise" pretty much what we want. A full carbon shell that wraps the whole foot while providing a hydrodynamic shape.
Regarding shape, something along the lines of a Bont Chrono, adapted to the heal forward position.
Also taking clues from the composite molding materials that Bont cycling use and one would not have to cast ones foot. Just heat the shoes up, wear and it molds to you. Other companies have the same on some high end models, but Bont's composites are superior.
Last but not least, perhaps have the shoe become a low boot as to allow the ankle to come into the equation. It's much more powerful than the foot in providing thrust.
That, for a start...

 

[AquaThylacine]

Thank you very much for your insights gentlemen You have opened my eyes. I am waiting for Matt to finish a phone call. He is a busy man, but will be fascinated by what we are doing non the less There is an excellent article on carbon fibre in cycling shoes at www.bont.com/Cycling/items/technology/carbonFiber.html.

I'm going to pick my mate Andre's brain (Sports Podiatrist) about the physiological considerations relevant to maximising performance and minimising injury. I feel it is vital to mould the shoes in such a way that each foot is locked into a position where misalignment of the ankles, knees, hips and lumber spine is impossible.

I'll check mates phone status

 

[AquaThylacine]

I think my buddy is talking to his girlfriend lol
noa I agree. However, I am concerned about a lack of drainage in the shoes. "Immersion foot" is nasty. Does anyone know of existing products that are mouldable, but drain well?
Altering the shape of the shoe with thin carbon to correct the "reverse hydrodynamics" makes sense to me.
Also I read a post where someone said they would like to attach an extension onto the toe of their shoes to get more leverage. What do you think?

 

[neurodoc]

I would think that drainage isn't as big an issue, since the foot is immersed with the shoe while swimming, and we of course take them off once out of the water. To the contrary, the CF shoe looks like it would have far less absorption of water, making it easier to dry. I have found after swimming with mine nearly every day (Specialized carbon sole shoes) that if I remove the insoles, pull the tongues out, and leave them in the bath tub with a fan blowing on them, they dry within a couple of hours. When things like shoes stay wet (without a foot in them) mildew/mold starts to colonize and break down the materials. Therefore, the ability to dry it quickly makes it better suited to frequent use. AquaThylacine this is sounding interesting! A better shoe would made a great Lunocet even greater!

 

[marginatus]

I would think that drainage isn't as big an issue, since the foot is immersed with the shoe while swimming, and we of course take them off once out of the water. To the contrary, the CF shoe looks like it would have far less absorption of water, making it easier to dry. I have found after swimming with mine nearly every day (Specialized carbon sole shoes) that if I remove the insoles, pull the tongues out, and leave them in the bath tub with a fan blowing on them, they dry within a couple of hours. When things like shoes stay wet (without a foot in them) mildew/mold starts to colonize and break down the materials. Therefore, the ability to dry it quickly makes it better suited to frequent use. AquaThylacine this is sounding interesting! A better shoe would made a great Lunocet even greater!

A custom full CF would dry instantly. I mean almost no padding or other materials (maybe on heel only)... just a neoprene sock and only one fastening point... that would be it!

 

[Kars]

An unsorted list of desirable freedive shoe characteristics:

I would be in favour of using multiple fastening points to help to spread the force evenly on a diverse range of feet.
Having the flexibility to match a wide range of feet well without energy absorbing padding. Also the adjustments allows people to use neoprene socks inside and have an even load over the foot.

At the moment cycling shoes have their toes slightly pointed up, for freediving I would like to have at least them pointing strait, or even down.

In regard to the shoe-fluke attachment, position shift, angle, roll, and rotation are the options that I want.
The sole of the shoe needs to be rather firm, so the heal supports the fluke's down stroke.

What should be the inner material?
I recognise that I like have my feet not to move, and have the pressures equally spread over the foot.
An neoprene sock helps to do this.

With so many options and variables to take into account to set up your fin, one can surely use a guide.

The whole system needs to be buoyancy neutral, at any depth. With socks it can be made positively buoyant, which helps a lot in both dynamic and CWT.
The materials' resins should be salt, chlorine, sun, bend, and pressure proof and durable, and light weight (to reduce foil inertia).

I think it would be very cool to use the same shoe for Bi-fin blades.

Design should be simple to facilitate fast production, easy to open even with gloves on, for safety.

Just a quick mind dump, hopefully helpful for the future freedive shoe designers.

 

[Chipswim]

Ok.... I'm starting to buy into this more! What Kars said about the sole that is NOT rocked up from the balls of the feet to the toes is NOT CURRENTLY AVAILABLE in the bike shoe market. If that proved to be an important variable which it could be we'd really be on our way toward a unique and valuable finning shoe! The compensation is done now with the foot pad angle of the Luno for example.

The finning specialty shoe would begin to take on a very distinctive look! Even the bottoms except the attaching points would have no reason to stay flat side to side.

Certainly a bare footed swimmer would not curl toes up but point them instead. I observe that great finless swimmers really get their ankles and toes pointed. I use my fin partially to compensate for an inability to attain that foot position.

 

[Chipswim]

AT: 2011 movie based on a book "The Hunter" by Julia Leigh about Thylacine . Currently on Show Time channel starring Willem Dafoe. Distributed by Madman in Australia.

 

[noa]

First swim with the Pro today...
Almost twenty five years of monofin experience with all types of fins. The Lunocet is on (or from) a different planet all together. Pretty F ing unbelievable ! The feeling of silky smooth, effortless thrust with speed that appears almost magically. I felt like a torpedo person... Ted, you da man !

On a slightly less positive note, after five to ten minutes in the water I started noticing play in the fin and a definite dead spot. The rubber spring had somehow "softened", allowing this play.
After coming home and disassembling it, I noticed that the hole in the spring that is closest to the blade was most likely too big for the pin, so it allowed for this play. This needs to be addressed probably with a smaller diameter hole so there is no play of the pin in it, thus preventing the dreaded dead spot.
Having said that, once the teething issues have been resolved, I now know first hand that this design is,most certainly very promising.

 

[Chipswim]

So nice to read Noa!

Do you have an extra spring?

 

[neurodoc]

I'm glad to see you like it, noa! It is reassuring that with all your experience you enjoy the feel of the fin. I really think it is the best I've tried but I do not have your experience level.

 

[noa]

So nice to read Noa!

Do you have an extra spring?

No, but I think I will have to ask Ted if he can send me one...

 

[noa]

I'm glad to see you like it, noa! It is reassuring that with all your experience you enjoy the feel of the fin. I really think it is the best I've tried but I do not have your experience level.

Well, I am not that highly experienced in performance levels as some people here. I let go of numbers and performances in the water a long time ago.
I am however fairly experienced, by having had over the years a lot of water time with a wide variety of monofin types and the different feels they provide. In that regard I can attest that the Lunocet is quite an amazing fin...

 

[Kars]

Maybe some tape around the pin, to help to fill up the hole more tightly?
I love to see some video too

 

[marginatus]

First swim with the Pro today...
Almost twenty five years of monofin experience with all types of fins. The Lunocet is on (or from) a different planet all together. Pretty F ing unbelievable ! The feeling of silky smooth, effortless thrust with speed that appears almost magically. I felt like a torpedo person... Ted, you da man !

On a slightly less positive note, after five to ten minutes in the water I started noticing play in the fin and a definite dead spot. The rubber spring had somehow "softened", allowing this play.
After coming home and disassembling it, I noticed that the hole in the spring that is closest to the blade was most likely too big for the pin, so it allowed for this play. This needs to be addressed probably with a smaller diameter hole so there is no play of the pin in it, thus preventing the dreaded dead spot.
Having said that, once the teething issues have been resolved, I now know first hand that this design is,most certainly very promising.

Awesome!
I need to go to customs tomorrow for paper work and fees but won't be able to bring it with me...