2014 lunocet

[Apneaddict]

It's great to read that others are starting to be able to experience and enjoy the fin that I've had the privilege of playing with for the last little while. It is awesome.

I've maybe got 3* of play in the flukes around centre - not much... I never really noticed it.

I've never sprinted or tried to breech with the Pro though... I've been using it at a "freediving level of energy expenditure" in a DYN setting.

I use mine on the stiffest setting and use a kick-glide technique.

Remember to try to add ankle-flex at the top and bottom of your stroke. It's like a whole other gear when I do that.

Such a great fin.

 

[AquaThylacine]

Gentlemen/Ladies,

I have not forgotten about you or the custom, carbon, foot pockets/shoes for the Lunocet Pro I have spoken to Matt, the F1 guru. He is interested in what we are trying to achieve, but requires extremely detailed information to give guidance I have yet to speak to Andre, the Sports Podiatrist, about musculoskeletal considerations. He is free next week. I predict that, like Matt, Andre will request maximum info from people familiar with the Pro. Having not used the Pro myself, I would be grateful for feedback regarding physiological considerations. For instance ... the ideal 3D orientation of toes, arch of the foot, achilles heel, entire foot and ankles. Should the ankles be able to flex (as I think Apneaddict advocates) or should they be locked into a specific position? Is laterally movement in the ankle desirable, to improve diver manoeuvrability through the water? Will locking the ankle in place put undue strain on the knees when manoeuvring?

I look forward to hearing your wisdom

Kindest Regards,

Aqua Thylacine.

 

[neurodoc]

My input as far as shoes, my wishlist perhaps:
-Foot/toe position pointed/plantarflexed, but perhaps not to 100% full extreme to prevent cramping in arch of foot
-I think I would prefer ankles to be left flexible, to allow maneuverability as well as prevent pressure points from swimming
-attachment points that match the Look cleat bolt pattern....but allow longitudinal adjustment. Perhaps as much as 40mm?
-maybe 5 degrees of rotational adjustment toe in to neutral/straight ahead
-Heels shaped as a leading edge, toes shaped as a trailing edge. Heels can be vertically wedged, toes horizontally.
-A way to attach rubber pads to bottom of sole, at least a strip of rubber, to not slip on boat platforms/pool edges
-Replaceable velcro strapping
Thanks for contributing to shoe/fin evolution, AquaThylacine!

 

[neurodoc]

Chipswim, here is a potential source for spacers if you want to play with bushing adaptation also: http://www.mcmaster.com/#unthreaded-spacers/=ruilon

 

[Chipswim]

We live vicariously through those of you who are actually swimming the new device. Thank you for sharing your experiences.

One additional benefit of using all 4 pins is spreading the flex load over more holes in the spring so they oblong less. No matter what you choose the setting will soften some over time.

Please consider wrapping three or four nylon zip ties tightly around the spring and frame assembly along its length. They can be easily threaded between the fluke and the aluminum to go around behind the central pin too. Now the spring has to overcome both the internal pins and the external support to flex. Thus confined it is less likely to allow spring overflex damage and it will largely negate effects of any prior damage. If you don't like it it's ten seconds to remove them.

I hope that also eliminates looseness you describe in the very center. You should easily be able to tell that difference even handling the fin out of the water. If not we'll use some of the ideas to preload the spring. I've used the exo and ramping so I know that works for sure. Maybe your oversized bushing concept will do it too. I strongly prefer zero play in the center!

One of the rubber compound challenges has been that it becomes brittle very near the mixture point it becomes stiff enough. Totally expect this whole issue to be absolutely overcome by one of our resident geniuses.... Ted being the most likely. Right now it is showing us the ways it could happen. So we build a bridge in time from here to there.

Thanks AT, Noa and Cdavis! It is one of the old '47 Dodge Power Wagon 1 ton 4wdrives with the radiator emblem from an old Mercedes that wore out. It retired as a legend from a nearby ranch and is now enduring the 33rd year of a 2 year restoration. You can imagine the problems it has had dealing with the idea storm.

The power source is the original flathead six in front and original buffalo power source in the rear ¡

 

[neurodoc]

Well, Chipswim, you can certainly say your truck has the 'nads to run with the best of them ;-)

 

[Philip Fennell]

+ 1 on what AA and Chip have said. Plus, the Simmons shoes that Marginatus showed us are "mold wise" pretty much what we want. A full carbon shell that wraps the whole foot while providing a hydrodynamic shape.
Regarding shape, something along the lines of a Bont Chrono, adapted to the heal forward position.
Also taking clues from the composite molding materials that Bont cycling use and one would not have to cast ones foot. Just heat the shoes up, wear and it molds to you. Other companies have the same on some high end models, but Bont's composites are superior.
Last but not least, perhaps have the shoe become a low boot as to allow the ankle to come into the equation. It's much more powerful than the foot in providing thrust.
That, for a start...

For those who didn't see the pictures on the thread about cycling shoes for monofins:

<http://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/cycling-shoes-for-monofin-use.100143/#post-928258>

Hopefully I'll be trying on the Bont Riot shoes this week. The Triathlon shoes tend not to have a tongue (the Bont Riot TR doesn't) so should be much quicker drying so less of the issues with mould etc. I think Ill always be using some form of neoprene sock so it will be interesting to see if that reduces any discomfort for not having the tongue.

 

[AquaThylacine]

Thank you for all the feedback Much appreciated.

It seems a number of members have made significant modifications and repairs to their Lunocet Pro.
Chipswim, your modifications are impressive However, like marinates, I would like my Lunocet Pro and Standard fins to maintain a pristine appearance. Additionally, I would like to pre-empt any wear or deterioration in the fins before I use them. Example : adjustment holes ovulating. Can any of you knowledgeable gentlemen suggest how I can best address these issues? I would be very grateful for your advice

Kindest Regards,

Aqua Thylacine - Samson McAdam.

 

[neurodoc]

AquaThylacine unless you do a lot of flip turns and big pushes off the walls in pools your Lunocet should be good for quite a while. Normal freediving does not harm it any; repeated sprints perhaps as I said earlier. I will be testing out the viability of adding bushings to help-not a visible mod. I will post info on that when I do it. Also I used bigger bolts. Post coming on that too!

 

[neurodoc]

Philip-I seem to recall reading that Bont shoes did not hold up well to water...might want to search discussion threads for that inf.o. I may be mistaken

 

[Chipswim]

Expect full resolution with addition of time. Temporary intervention is a topic in our court. An idea that pops in your head AT could be the solution. Trust your own ideas! There are some invisible tweaks. AA has written some solid ideas like the washers under the fluke mounting plate to tighten the center. Noa's / Ndoc's oversized pin bushing inserts....

Wonder if he used that idea on his Pro?

 

[Chipswim]

I thought Philip's Bont Crono won the ultimate shoe treasure hunt!

It sure looks like what we have described....

 

[AquaThylacine]

Thanks for the tips I will experiment with the Fin, in addition to the "shoe"
The Bront Crono looks like an excellent product. My main concern is the fact that the toes and lower foot will be markedly upturned. I imagine such a foot and toe position would be uncomfortable, besides causing hydrodynamic issues. I lost plenty of toes nails in the army and don't fancy trying it again lol I am determined to have a shoe that allows my feet to remain in a neutral position

 

[Chipswim]

Their website shows attention to several features we can use including comfy toe space.... Some what expensive to find out.

 

[noa]

For those who didn't see the pictures on the thread about cycling shoes for monofins:

<http://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/cycling-shoes-for-monofin-use.100143/#post-928258>

Hopefully I'll be trying on the Bont Riot shoes this week. The Triathlon shoes tend not to have a tongue (the Bont Riot TR doesn't) so should be much quicker drying so less of the issues with mould etc. I think Ill always be using some form of neoprene sock so it will be interesting to see if that reduces any discomfort for not having the tongue.

I am using the regular Bont Riot. It appears to be fairly good so far but there can for sure be better shoe options. One would however have to pay quite a bit more.
The reason I chose this shoe is for its value for money. No one else offers a very stiff, moldable carbon sole at this price range.
The upper materials are fairly good but construction and assembly details could be better. If the shoe start to fall apart on the upper I'm planning some modifications so I don't mind too much. If anything, the sole will make a great platform for customization.

 

[noa]

Expect full resolution with addition of time. Temporary intervention is a topic in our court. An idea that pops in your head AT could be the solution. Trust your own ideas! There are some invisible tweaks. AA has written some solid ideas like the washers under the fluke mounting plate to tighten the center. Noa's / Ndoc's oversized pin bushing inserts....

Wonder if he used that idea on his Pro?

Not sure what type of rubber Ted has used for the spring, but I'm starting to think that urethane like the one used in skate wheels and trucks could be an interesting material. It can be used in a wide variety of durometers and stands up well to abuse. Also, an oversized hard urethane bushing could work well within the spring to house the forward anchor point.
Many ideas, wonder if Ted is reading any of this...

 

[Chipswim]

Noa!
I know Ted follows this thread pretty closely but it is moving fast these days. Usually you'll see a couple of Ted Ciamillo likes pop up as an indication he has been in here. Did enjoy one of those treasured calls from Ted today. He is focused on filling orders.

I think you are properly identifying a key issue is spring performance as we go forward. Just sent an idea about materials too but my thoughts are so crude compared to our engineers. I like where we are so far and I'm very optimistic about the future!

 

[noa]

By the looks of it, Ted has most likely not been on the thread lately. And as you said it's moving fast, so when he does come to read it he will most likely not have the time for all the posts.
So, I guess better we mail him with some feedback and for those that get a chance to speak to him by phone, relate to him some key points discussed.

 

[noa]

This is the spring after my two initial swims. As one can see the central pivot hole has started to ovalize resulting in a loose pivot point with a fair bit of play.
The front anchor point hole also ovalizes during swimming but returns to a rounder position after a day.
The whole system now feels fairly loose on land and even more so while swimming.
All in all, there can be solutions, but the spring appears to be the somewhat weak link in the system.

 

[Fredd]

This is the spring after my two initial swims. As one can see the central pivot hole has started to ovalize resulting in a loose pivot point with a fair bit of play.
The front anchor point hole also ovalizes during swimming but returns to a rounder position after a day.
The whole system now feels fairly loose on land and even more so while swimming.
All in all, there can be solutions, but the spring appears to be the somewhat weak link in the system.

Did your spring not come with the metal bushing in the pivot point as shown in Chipswim's photo? Or is that one of Chipswim's many interesting modifications? The amount of wear on the spring is surprising after such a short time, although I'm guessing you're a strong mono fin/fluke swimmer.

Can I ask how long your fin took on it's travels please? From Ted posting/sending you a tracking number to it arriving with you. Just wondering if there's still time to receive one before my hols.