Apnea Diet

[jome]

Soo, what would be roughly a good dosage of pure citric acid?

 

[octopus]

I wonder what is in the lemon that does it for apnea.
As far as I know body strictily regulates levels of vitamin C in the blood, no matter how much of it you eat...so I would be tempted to exclude that one.

 

[samdive]

I think its the acidity that causes the problem. I get eczema and eating acidy food particularly citrus fruit makes it flare up violently - so I don't think neat citric acid is a great idea!


interesting facts about the sausages - next time I get a Stalker I will try feeding him copious quantities of hot dogs!

 

[jpelorat]

Hi Tim,

Hope this helps, happy eating/diving.
peace, tim.

Of course it will help, I'm used to spicy food (love it) and had learnt the lesson the hard way, so before a dive weekend i try to control my self for two days, sometimes is not enough. About cirtus fruits, i've been told they are advised against because of methane rofl is that true?... So, as i see, i'm not doing quite well and there are many things to focus on...

By the way thank you...
Sigi..

 

[naiad]

Eating lemons or doing CO2 tables - now there's a hard choice. :blackeye

 

[Mlaen]

So. would eating leamons had the long term effect in CO2 tolerance like doing CO2 tables?

 

[Aquagenic]

Sodium Nitrate...hmmm...where have I heard that before? Oh right, it's great for homemade explosives! In fact, if I remember right (which is rare), it is used commonly as a fertilizer.

The explosive of choice for the people who blew the bomb in Oklahoma City a few years back.

Also previously used by the US military to keep "hormone levels down" during basic training. (Affectionately termed "Salt Peter" by the men.)

~James

 

[jome]

I think you're referring to ammoniun nitrate with the explosives stuff? [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_nitrate[/ame]

 

[Ricochet]

Homeland Security, do not read beyond this line!

Both work pretty good.
Believe me. I've blown a shitload of things to the moon when I was a kid.

Back to the topic plx, before I say things that I'll have to deny in court !

 

[Aquagenic]

See, I told you it is rare for me to remember right. I was mixing the two up, one was for a napalm recipe, one was for a smoke bomb recipe...my mistake.

I totally agree with Ricochet though, back to the topic...

~James

 

[Almostafish]

I keep a bottle of Daves insanity chilli in the fridge and use some of that to wake everything up before a days diving. Be warned though its qute extreme but clears the tubes like a jetwash!

 

[Absolute]

Raising the blood pH before a static will increase the co2 tolerance for the apneist. So do your normal co2 tolerance training and before you try to set a pb static eat a few lemons an hour or two before to give you that "extra" co2 tolerance on top of what you already have adapted to.

Eating 5 lemons a day would not be the alternative to normal co2 training.

 

[Sealdiver]

For Samdive,
To be honest, i just heard that in a health and fitness journal that green tea compared to coffee or normal tea tends to slow release the caffine content. I'm not to sure on the science of it but ive heard it is the better option.
peace, Sealdiver

 

[octopus]

I could not find any articles that refer to prolonged apnea like in freediving - with respect to pH level and vitamin C level in the blood.

The pH (acidity level) of the blood monitors the level of carbon dioxide (CO2) within the blood. Many physical processes influence your pH levels, but one of the largest contributors is the CO2 content of the blood. As CO2 levels increase, the concentration of H+ ions also increases, and more H+ means more acid and a lower blood pH. This acidic state signals your brain that you need to breathe faster or deeper. Under prolonged oxygen deprivation conditions such as heavy air pollution and ozone warnings, lung illnesses, or extended periods at high elevations, your body balances its blood pH by increasing the bicarbonate level (alkaline HCO3-).

A balanced body pH is 6.4 and normal blood pH is tightly regulated between 7.35 and 7.45, while pH for a body of fresh water or a freshwater aquarium is 7.0.

So, if you do not breathe, your pH level drops (goes acidic). But body tries to regulate it back to 7.35-7.45. Can body use vitamin C to regulate blood pH levels? (I know it is used as anti-oxidant when anti-bodies destroy bacteria/viruses with oxidants). In that case if you eat lots of lemons, your body would have more reserves of vitamin C to regulate blood pH level, thus delaying the urge to breathe? (Under normal conditions it does not matter if you eat ten lemons, your blood level of vitamin C will not change).

I am guessing very much here and it would be helpfull if someone more knowledgable could clarify this. Thanks.

 

[jome]

I think the theory was mostly that Citric acid, through some mystery (to me) metabolic cycle increases blood ph. I think this is in line with the popular "acidic vs. alkaline diet"-branch of nutritional awareness. You will find in most references that lemon and grape fruit are considered "alkaline foods", ie. they increase the body ph. It is believed that a higher ph has a lot of beneficial health effects.

Obviously having a more alkaline blood in the beginning of the breath hold would delay the breathing reflex. It is not totally agreed upon that it would increase your breath hold time though, in fact I thought it was the more popular theory that having a low blood ph helps oxygen unbind from haemoglobin and prolongs the breath hold. Maybe I'm missing something here, but to me it seems that the effect would be similar to hyperventilation with and without some of the side effects.

I think that the whole alkaline diet thing is generally thought of being in the "pseudo-science land". It is generally agreed that messing with the delicate ph-balance has serious effects to one way or the other. But which foods are alkaline, which are acidic, and what is the ideal body ph is a bit scetchy (my limited understanding from some quick googling). But I must admit I don't know enough of the subject to make a sound opinnion. Someone with more background info might enlighten us?

I don't think vitamin c has much to do with it, or perhaps there is confusion regarding Citric Acid vs Ascorbic Acid (vitamin c)

 

[octopus]

I think that the whole alkaline diet thing is generally thought of being in the "pseudo-science land".

It looks like it:
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/coral2.html

 

[jome]

Well, if what dr. Mirkin suggests all the piss ph tests I've seen in alkaline diet sites would be useless. But the tone of that article keeps me on my toes. We've seen that sort of thing in the past...In fact I think he's not completely in tune with the concept. He seems to suggest that eating acid won't acidify or drinking alkaline water won't make you more alkaline. But what the "alkaline diet" people suggest is that through cell level metabolism, some food agents such as citirc acid affect blood ph. Go figure, I'm no expert...

So, who's going to eat 5 lemons and measure ph from the blood for us?

 

[island_sands]

I keep a bottle of Daves insanity chilli in the fridge and use some of that to wake everything up before a days diving. Be warned though its qute extreme but clears the tubes like a jetwash!

Crumbs... that would give me bum gravy

 

[SanSan]

I thought it was the more popular theory that having a low blood ph helps oxygen unbind from haemoglobin and prolongs the breath hold

As far as I understand this is based on the Bohr effect and that would suggest the opposite. So high blood PH should help to unbind oxygen from hemoglobin.

 

[DeepThought]

Great linnk octopus, explains a lot, even if a bit extreme and counters some other people's evidences.

As far as I understand this is based on the Bohr effect and that would suggest the opposite. So high blood PH should help to unbind oxygen from hemoglobin.

The exact opposite as I understood: [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr_effect[/ame]

I thought it was the more popular theory that having a low blood ph helps oxygen unbind from haemoglobin and prolongs the breath hold. Maybe I'm missing something here, but to me it seems that the effect would be similar to hyperventilation with and without some of the side effects.

Thing is that there might be more than just acidity that activates the dive response, maybe high levels of buffered CO2 still activate some responses while delaying some others (like the urge to breath). Am in the lack of knowledge about that as well.
I think that idealy, if it wasn't delaying the diving response, one would want a drastic change in blood pH during the hold, as blood being acidic is important only to the end of the hold when the SaO2 is low and you want the PaO2 to be high (bohr effect). At the begning of the hold one would want the blood alkaline so it won't let the tissues spend as much O2.
From my poor memory of analitical chemistry, having less buffers will make a drastic pH change for the same amount of "acid' (CO2) easier, no?