Apnea Diet

[efattah]

Citric acid is a precursor to bicarbonate, so eating citric acid will increase your bicarbonate level, which is the primary CO2 buffer.

Hyperventilating will not have the same effect. True, hyperventilating makes you more alkaline, but it also reduces CO2.

You want CO2, because of the vasodilating effect it has near the end of the static. CO2 also effects the release of O2 from hemoglobin, but that is more a pH effect in general, and not 100% dependent on CO2.

So, if you imagine two people starting their static with the same pH, but achieved through different means, they will not reach the same time in the end. Whoever starts with more CO2 will win, given the same starting pH. For this reason, huge amounts of citric acid allow you to start with more and more CO2, and still start at the same pH that you used to start at.

A 'therapeutic' dose of citric acid for static is about 10g. Mixing into gatorade makes it palatable. The alternative is a lot of lemons.

 

[SanSan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanSan
As far as I understand this is based on the Bohr effect and that would suggest the opposite. So high blood PH should help to unbind oxygen from hemoglobin.
The exact opposite as I understood: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr_effect

Yep I thought high PH is acidic and low PH is alkaline. Looked it up [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH[/ame] and now I know its the opposite.

 

[octopus]

http://www.usyd.edu.au/su/anaes/lectures/acidbase_mjb/control.html

It is slowly getting clearer. Let's keep it going.

 

[Ceri118]

Hello all ,
Mostly just hang around the spearfishing pages so I might be a bit out of my depth here . (No joke intended !).

I've Tried having a lemon before I go in the water and found it to be very effective , I squeeze a whole lemon into a cup of green tea and have it before I go out.

That thing with eating the hotdogs , I'm always open to new Ideas but I don't know if any body has tried a Nitric Oxide supplement you can get.

I've used it in the past for weight training along with loads of other crap to little effect , but I have not done any real tests with it with relation to the water.

The stuff I used was NO/XS by higher power nutrition.

You can look it up at www.bodybuilding.com

 

[watts]

Has anyone had any experience with Octacosanol?
# Found in wheatgerm, alfalfa, sugarcane as a waxy substance
# The active ingredient in wheat germ oil
# Especially effective in increasing endurance, stamina, vigour and reducing the oxygen needs of the body
Octacosanol is known to increase and improve glycogen storage in the muscle tissue, also increasing the utilization of oxygen and tissue oxygen saturation.


Thanks Nathan Watts

 

[Absolute]

Interesting, I'll check it out.

 

[efattah]

I tried octacosanol a long time ago (big surprise). It is also found in spinach. I had some good performances at the time, but I was unable to isolate the real source of the performances. Possibly worth more experimentation. I used the 8mg octacosanol from Twinlab.

 

[watts]

Thanks Eric i might give it a go. Any side effects? And was that 8mg/day?

Cheers Nathan Watts

 

[efattah]

I think I was taking 4 x 8000mcg capsules per day. I have heard that a FAR greater dose may be necessary though.

 

[DeepThought]

How about Hydrogen Sulfide? It's been known to take part in hibernation in some organisms...

 

[Absolute]

Cirtic acid, is and acid, not a base. Therefore it cannot raise the ph of the blood. It lowers it. Initally.

But what all acids have lots of are positive hydrogen ions. H+

So now we have blood with a lower than normal ph because we just ate 5 lemons, and have normal levels of co2. This outweights what bicarbonate level is already available making the blood acidic. 7.2

Here's the trick, just before your breath hold, you hyperventalate a bit. This lowers the co2 level to slightly below normal levels. Slightly being the key word. Blood ph is now normal 7.4.

As you are in static, o2 is used and co2 is produced and disolved into the blood. (Here is were the critic acid comes in) The H+ ions from the acid bond to the disolved co2 making HCO3 or bicarbonate.

Ideally, bicarbonate is formed at a rate simular to the build up of co2, keeping the blood ph as close to normal as possible.

Until at one point, you run out of H+ ions or the increacing co2 outweights the rate bicarbonate can be formed changing the blood back to and acidic state. Which you endure for as long as you can, until finally you breathe.

So that is how citric acid produces a base, bicarbonate.

 

[DeepThought]

So that implies that many different acids can produce that effect?

Thing is that acid is being nuetralized already when leaving the stomach to the gut, you're saying it still defuses to the blood as citric acid?

 

[Absolute]

It is the positive hydrogen ions that are in the acid that you want. All acids have them, citric acid is more palatable that others.

So after the acid is digested, couple of hours, and your body has absorbed the H+ ions then I guess it would be ok to vomit up the stomach acid to increase bicarbonate levels and normalize the blood ph, rather than trying to hyperventalate and remove co2. Your decision.

That is probably what that guy is trying to doing here.
http://gallery.deeperblue.net/showphoto.php/photo/2699/cat/558
:yack
All in the love of competition.

J

 

[naiad]

So after the acid is digested, couple of hours, and your body has absorbed the H+ ions then I guess it would be ok to vomit up the stomach acid to increase bicarbonate levels and normalize the blood ph, rather than trying to hyperventalate and remove co2. Your decision.

I think I'll stick to hyperventilation. :hmm

 

[jome]

Believe or not I did try the citric acid thing and vomiting was not far from the picture My theeth were not too happy either.

In my static, I felt absolutely no difference what so ever. Someone somewhere must be laughing at his keyboard right now (haha, made you drink pure citric acid)...Of course one trial tells nothing, but for some reason I'm a bit reluctant to make a series of trials...

If there is any real effect, it is at least very subtle...So don't ditch training in favor of an acid diet just yet.

 

[Absolute]

I looked at the vitamin store yesterday and they had hydrocitricacid? Is this what you took? If so how much?
Just interested, and don't worry I'm not laughing.

 

[jome]

I got it from a phramasist, it just says "citirc acid" (in finnish), don't know more than that...

I took roughly 10g, didn't really measure, but about a tenth of the 100g bag. I mixed it with a class of water and just downed it in a few quick swallows.

I can down pretty much anything, but it made me seriously gag The aftertaste stays long and you teeth feel funny for the rest of the day...Propably not something your dentist will recommend any time soon...

 

[Absolute]

Depends on if the dentist needs money or not.

The stuff I was looking at was acutally for curbing the appetite, so I can see why you were gaging.

I'll still try it out though, mabey in smaller doses at first to get the body used to it. Well see.

 

[naiad]

There are some brave people on Deeperblue!

 

[ADR]

10grms of citric acid powder with a very weak powerade mix is much easier to drink than in plain water. I'm currrently drinking a fair bit of it (daily) to see if I can modify body pH as I'm quite acidic. (No recognised science here)

Strange how citric acid is tough to drink but OK once it's down whereas bicarb and water is easy to drink but pretty tough on the digestion after that.