Avoid C4 - New fins cracked - no support from C4

[Darryll]

Hi,
Just thought I'd vent my frustration and hopefully save a few people the same stress I have gone through with C4.

Just some background - I have had many different brands of fins over the past 20 years I have been diving and have never had a fin break on me. My most recent fins - Omer Stingray Carbon - have been really put through hell the past 3 years in hard conditions diving shore dives in hard conditions in South Africa/Carribean/Australia to name a few places. They are scratched and scuffed and very well used. On one of my last dives with them I was bounced on the reef so hard that the blade nearly completely popped out...
Tough as nails...

Onto my story....having been so happy with the Omers, I went to buy a new pair in Italy. At the shop they convinced me to try C4...we all know C4, big name, big prices, etc. A little against my better judgement I invested in a pair of C4 Mustang fins...

I travelled to Thailand to do some diving and to use my fins...we dived a few pinnacles and wrecks so there was a bit of current and the occasional bump into something...nothing near what I am used to so no problems until I got on deck and discovered the crack in my fin.

I wrote to C4 and sent them pics...only to get a very quick reply back that I was at fault and there would be no warranty to cover this. Considering the fins were used such a short amount of time, as a manufacturer I'd want to examine the fin and look to improve them - as Rob Allen and Free Divers in South Africa do, and then try help the customer. Unlike C4 that really does not care.

All I can say is that if C4 products are so fragile, avoid them and save yourself a lot of money and heartache.
Personally I will ditch the C4 gun I have along with the fins and never buy their products again.
Your money is better invested in other brands - Back to Omer for me.

In all the years of my diving, this is the worst experience I have had with equipment and service.

"C4 you suck!"

 

[SubSub]

Shitty customer service can really be bad for a company, especially if you are selling high-end products. If you buy a low budget product, you probably expect it to not be of as durable / longlasting and you probably don't expect so much of the company you bought it from, but if you put your hard earned money on buying a quality product you do it for a reason. The product should be of better quality and last longer. If it doesn't for some reason, you expect the company to deliver high customer service and atleast at the minimum look in to the matter. If not replacing the fin, give a good discount on the new one aswell as free shipping is not much to ask. To act like this is a pretty good way to destroy your business.

 

[Pinniped72]

A while ago on this forum someone reported equally stressful times with a broken C4 gun that he had to do a DIY repair on!! To be honest even if I was in the market for top notch carbon gear, C4 would not be on the shortlist. Its good that people share these experiences, it helps me avoid companies who show a total lack of respect to the customer, especially those that charge a fair old whack for their gear!

 

[Darryll]

Yes, it is really frustrating. I could accept that I was to blame or the product did not perform as it should, but for them just to give me the heave-ho without any kind of help really stinks.

I have been in touch with a UK based company that sells resins and carbon fibre sheeting and they have recommended a resin and some tips on how to fix it myself. Have had several mail exchanges with them and excellent advice - all for free and I have never spent a penny with them. Going to give them a plug as they have some interesting products and free tutorials that can be applied to spearfishing gear...
http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/

C4 has something to learn about customer service and how damaging this can be for them.

Totally agree, people need to know about company integrity and if they are in fact appreciated as customers.
We all can live with a dud product, but not terrible service.

I had actually picked out a C4 gun that I was going to buy as well...so much for that!

 

[Darryll]

Couldn't agree more.
I was really hoping they would take the blade back, investigate and come with a solution.
I could swallow it if they said "your fault, but we'll repair it or give you a discount on a new blade as it is so new" etc.
Instead their answer (from pics) was return it to the dealer where you bought fins...the dealer acted quickly and conveyed C4's answer...your fault, no warranty.
It their is a silver lining in this...hopefully no-one else buys their products and I found a company in the UK that sells resins and fibre cloth and they have instructed me on how to fix it myself. Several mail exchanges with them and excellent advice...without spending a cent.
C4 could learn a thing or two...
These guys also sell carbon tubes and have a bunch of cool "how to" videos that can be applied to spearing gear...so a plug for them http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/#!/composites-tutorials

Sucky service...kills me...

 

[Nata]

Dear Mr. Daryll,

my name is Natalia Bonfanti and I am the marketing director in C4.
I'm sorry to hear about the problem you had with the blades. But what most shocked me is the wickedness, the lift others in some kind of battle and the intention of discrediting a company, the people who work there and their work without cause. Yes, because we are people, men and women like you who work honestly and maintain their families.

Our products are guaranteed according to the law, like any other normal purchase that a buyer can do. In particular:

The C4 product warranty usually it is limited to a period of 2 years from the date of consumer’s purchase of the product. This date must be verified by a valid sales document (proof of payment as tax receipt or sales receipt). Warranty claims have to be submitted to the dealer where the product was purchased.
C4 refuse free service if the required documentation cannot be provided or if information is incomplete, illegible, or incorrect.

Only defects or damages resulting from a failure in material or workmanship are covered by the warranty.
Defects or damage caused by normal use or damage caused by heavy, unusual, or incorrect use, or by careless transport are not covered by the warranty.

All the blades of our catalog are made for freediving, spearfishing and snorkelling. You wrote for your own admission that you had some bumps here and there.

"I traveled to Thailand to do some diving and to use my fins ... we dived a few pinnacles and wrecks I know there was a bit of current and the occasional bump into something ... nothing near what I am used to know no problems until I got on deck and discovered the crack in my right. "

Evidently, damaged just the tip of the blade at a point of no stress, it was caused by bumps. An accidental collision's damage is not attributable to an error of production and therefore is not recognized as under guarantee terms.
If you buy a new car, you leave the dealer and you hit the rims on the first sidewalk: do you go back to the dealer and request a replacement under warranty or you reproached yourself for inattention and pay the damage on your own pocket? Here it is.

Our assistance, as you wrote, answered immediately. If we were so ugly and bad, we would not answer, and I certainly would not be here to put my face, name and surname.

You are free to threaten us and write messages on facebook and in all forums of this world as you are doing. But it leaves things as they are.
I’m sorry but the law and the facts, do not change.
And even the reasonableness.

 

[Nata]

p.s. The product you've bought is a pair of blades and not fins, and it's "RED FALCON HT" and not Mustang fins as you wrote.

 

[Darryll]

Dear Nata,
I don't think you have understood the point of my message.

Yes, I admit I bumped my fins, because I am honest, but not to the point they should crack.
I have not threatened you, or anybody else.
I didn't say you were ugly or bad.

I did say that your customer service is terrible.

I contacted you with my story asking for support. Without asking to check the fin, you made the judgement that it was my fault and therefore void of warranty.

Pretty poor if you ask me.

 

[Nata]

I think I well understand.

You've broken the new blades.
It bothered you. (It would be me too).
You do not accept that it was due to your surely unintended inaccuracies.
Then it is the fault of the company that produced it, even if has answered you for assistance. But the problem is that the company did not tell you what you would have liked heard, something as "sorry, no problem, we will replace it even if it is not our fault".
And then you decided to write injuries all around the web starting this "war of shares" and I do not understand why so much wickedness.
And do not say no because as per attached screenshot taken from a public group, you ask to share with everyone.

 

[Darryll]

Natalia,
Read my post again.
My complaint is about poor customer service.
Nowhere did I ask you to replace them free of charge, I'd happily pay to have them fixed. Money really is not the object here.
By all around the web, you mean in 1 Facebook group and here? Last time I checked, the web was a little larger than that.

Great marketing by the way....

 

[Pinniped72]

Sorry to chip in here Nata but I do have some experience in customer service and I will draw upon an experience from many years ago, when as a teenager I worked on a fish bar in a high end food retailer, whose name I will not mention but who are very well known in the UK, for an example to explain my concern with all this. A customer bought a whole Scottish salmon and also booked out a fish kettle, they returned the fish kettle without the salmon saying that the fish was bad, they had thrown it away and demanded a replacement salmon. Unreasonable I would suggest most people would think, however the department manager replaced the salmon without a second thought and why was this? I would say that the retailer I worked for had a very good reputation, the prices were high because the produce was of high quality and they prided themselves not on just doing enough to satisfy legal requirements but giving the customer the best quality customer service possible. In short, in my opinion, if your producing quality products at high prices, customer service should be of equal quality, it simply is not adequate to just do enough to keep legal.................. just an opinion, maybe not right, but an opinion nonetheless

 

[sharkey]

Rule number one. "the customer is always right." Rule number two. "when the customer is wrong, refer to rule number one."

 

[Irminsul]

sharkey that's bullshit.

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[Darryll]

I wouldn't necessarily agree with the customer always being right...and in this case, I really just wanted them to look at the fin, make a call and if it was deemed my fault, offer to professionally repair it at my cost.

As Pinni said...it's about the service you expect when you pay premium.

 

[Nata]

Natalia,
My complaint is about poor customer service.
Nowhere did I ask you to replace them free of charge, I'd happily pay to have them fixed. Money really is not the object here.
By all around the web, you mean in 1 Facebook group and here? Last time I checked, the web was a little larger than that.

Great marketing by the way....

"Poor customer service" why?
You've never said us " I'd happily pay to have them fixed" or similar.
You've asked for guarantee assistance and my Staff have answered you immediately about it. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less.
You ask, we answer. We cannot immagine what you are thinking about or want. If you ask, we always answer, ALWAYS.
But if you do not ask, we can't answer you.
That's all. And I really do not think this mean "poor service".
And if I'm here now, answering, and try to clarify this thing, can you can really say that it is a disservice? no please, I can not believe it.

However it is, if your inquiry is that above, please write to our "poor service" and they will give you all the information about what you can do.

Have a good day,
Natalia B.

 

[Nata]

Sorry to chip in here Nata but I do have some experience in customer service and I will draw upon an experience from many years ago, when as a teenager I worked on a fish bar in a high end food retailer, whose name I will not mention but who are very well known in the UK, for an example to explain my concern with all this. A customer bought a whole Scottish salmon and also booked out a fish kettle, they returned the fish kettle without the salmon saying that the fish was bad, they had thrown it away and demanded a replacement salmon. Unreasonable I would suggest most people would think, however the department manager replaced the salmon without a second thought and why was this? I would say that the retailer I worked for had a very good reputation, the prices were high because the produce was of high quality and they prided themselves not on just doing enough to satisfy legal requirements but giving the customer the best quality customer service possible. In short, in my opinion, if your producing quality products at high prices, customer service should be of equal quality, it simply is not adequate to just do enough to keep legal.................. just an opinion, maybe not right, but an opinion nonetheless

Hi,
do not worry it's ok. I like threads if productive and well written without offending like yours.
Food and fins are different products but I perfectly understand what you mean.
And I agree. The problem Is that not always a company can do this.
In 30 years C4, even if this can sound false now here, has a very good well-known assistance service. 30 years of work ... can you imagine what a bad service can do ?? For sure not 30 years of work. A company can close if they do a bad work.
Someone here said "Rule number one." The customer is always right. "" It is, but not always. And when someone try to obtain something that he has not to have, in this way, going on forums or facebook, pubblic socials, discrediting, thinking doing so he can get something blackmail us, with us, it does not work.
Do you think that this is the first case? Unfortunately not.

But the blackmail on the web are something that just can not stand. Especially when they are not honest.

There must be respect for customers but also for the manufacturers or retailers.
I know that, unfortunately, the world is full of dishonest people, but that does not mean they all are.
I ask, before leaving for crusades against something, think, look for a honest solution having respect for all.
But maybe I'm asking too much...

 

[octopus]

I bought C4 stiff flaps some time ago, when C4 still did not make footpockets (10yrs?).
I decided to fit them into Beuchat footpockets (Pathos did not exist in those days).
But I needed different rubber rails on C4 blades from the one that were already on them (I think they were intended for Omer pockets).
So I presented my problem here on DB and Natalia replied and then sent me the appropriate rails free of charge and C4 paid for postage.
I made the fins and I went on using those C4+Beuchat pockets fins and they are still in use today
(although only for deep diving training, due to Beuchat pockets being very heavy comapred to Pathos).

I cannot comment on every specific case, as I do not know the circumstances.
However, my experience with C4 was positive.
I am not writing this to take sides or accuse anyone of anything.
But If Nata was good enough to send me the rails for free, the least I can do is write about it.

Perhaps with cool head, something still can be negotiated at the satisfaction of both sides.
There is no need for irrational/emotional stance, as this will not be very constructive.

 

[sharkey]

sharkey that's bullshit.

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For any company wanting good customer support it is absolutly correct.

But then what are customers, customer support & a good reputation? I see your point, its all just over rated isnt it.

 

[Darryll]

@Nat...

For the record and did not call anyone dishonest, try to blackmail (for a €50 fin? really?) anyone and I did try to get support from both C4 and the retailer.

However, I will go back to my initial issue of lack of customer service.
Without seeing the fin, you have said I misused the product.

To make matters worse, you are accusing me of a number of things in public forums.

You're really showing your colours here Natalie, which completely substantiates my case.

 

[Irminsul]

For any company wanting good customer support it is absolutly correct.

But then what are customers, customer support & a good reputation? I see your point, its all just over rated isnt it.

I think that this kind of thinking "the customer is allways right" is an old fashioned way of handling your support. I think it should be called "the customer is not allways right but we should try to help everyone in a friendly way".
I personally think the customer is often wrong but you allways gotta stay friendly and be polite no matter what's the problem. But you can't let everyone send everything back to you, no matter what was the problem.


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