Beyond 6:30 in static apnea

[cebaztian]

Oh another thing - beeing sleepy might be good for static. Becasue it helps pople relax - but if one CAN relax - I still believe that having lots of sleep behind you is better. I think the nervoussystem needs to be fully rested.

Beeing a bit sleepy and dead tired might be two separate things.

Sebastian

 

[xsaul]

I've heard of people falling asleep setting records in competition!!!
No experience there....
Water Rat, who believes in being RELAXED, and WELL-RESTED.

 

[efattah]

I believe that getting enough sleep, and being sleepy, are beneficial at the same time.

In other words, get tons of sleep the night in the days leading up to the static (so you are well rested), and then stay up long enough to get sleepy for the static. This is much different from being sleep deprived for days, which I think is harmful.

Being sleepy probably improves statics, because when you are sleepy your brain GABA levels increase, and your brainwave frequency decreases, both of which dramatically reduce the O2 consumption of your brain. Since your brain consumes more than 30% of your O2, any savings in that area will help.

Meditation can also increase GABA and decrease brainwave frequency, so it should have a similar effect to being sleepy.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

 

[pat fish]

thank you for that comment eric -

i assume that the benefit from the decreased 02 consumption in a sleepy state does not only leads to a decreased central nervous systems metabolism (lower neuronal activity, lower gaba levels) but also to an induced lower tonus and lower rate of metabolism in skeletal muscles.

yours pat

 

[DeepThought]

Originally posted by efattah
I believe that getting enough sleep, and being sleepy, are beneficial at the same time.

get tons of sleep the night in the days leading up to the static (so you are well rested), and then stay up long enough to get sleepy for the static. This is much different from being sleep deprived for days, which I think is harmful.

Could work wonderfull with many people, but for me I must disagree. when missing sleep, I feel that my brain actually accelerates. I feel that I think faster, but get lesser quality output (sometimes) from that. And that I have less concetration, and I'll have hard time falling asleep after that. I guess that my brain/body are doing what they can to cover the sleep deprevation. The only time of day I can be sure to be sleepy is when I wake up (I do have troubles falling asleep usally). but I guess that most people belong to the more fortunet group.

But I think that getting alot of sleep in the days before static competition is defenitly the way. it means that you have more time during that period in which your metabolism is lower (I assume the metabolisem deccelerates while sleeping, I'll be happy to get confirmation of that), therefore probably makes you have an overall lower metabolism.

Say what is this GABA you're speaking off? somekind of neurotransmitter? hormone?

 

[dallasdiver]

GABA is a natural calming and anti-epileptic agent in the brain that is manufactured from the amino acid glutamine and glucose

Studies have shown GABA to improve sleep cycles leading to more restful sleeping. In addition to it's positive effect on the nervous system, medical studies have also proven GABA to be effective for insomnia

I also have a lot of trouble sleeping and getting to sleep. Wake very frequently. Some is do to stress, many time when I wake my mind starts racing with thoughts about work, thing I need to do, etc. I have tried a Meletonin supplement that occurs naturally in the body that controls wakefullness and sleepyness, but it really gave me weird dreams.

 

[DeepThought]

10x. Do you have any clues as to how can one naturally increase those GABA levels in the brain?

As for me, I don't think it's from pressure or strain. It just has been like that since I was an infant, and haven't changed much.
And I rather not mess with drugs before I try simpler things, like sort my life and try to live on notmal people's schedual... which I intend soon.

On freediving periods I have much less trouble falling a sleep.

 

[dallasdiver]

Some other info on GABA

Supplemental intake of GABA was shown to produce a significant elevation of plasma growth-hormone levels and prolactin in one human study.

More blood= more 02

 

[dallasdiver]

Laminar
As regards getting your blood more alkaline, I can see why you wouldn't want to eat beef (hard to digest) prior to training for a static PB. When you say that you eat fruits and vegatables to get more alkaline, do avoid all types of proteins?(fish, vegatable protein, etc.
Brief discription of diet, please.

 

[DeepThought]

That's cool, though I never understood why plasma gain should be consdiered as O2 gain.
Doesn't that mean that your blood is just thinner? hemoglobin is the thing that carries O2 after all... same amount of red blood cells on a larger volume doesn't seem significant to me regarding to o2 storage.
explenations?

So nobody has ideas as to how to make your body produce more GABA naturally, 'ey?

 

[dallasdiver]

I should clarify. More blood=02? It seems that a larger volume would be conducive to carry more 02? Anyone?

 

[efattah]

Meditation increases GABA levels naturally.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

 

[DeepThought]

Well, that was exactly my point, that o2 is carried in the RBC, so I don't understand why more volume with the same amount of blood cells would transfer more blood. 5 litters of blood or 5.2 litters of blood, both with lets say 2 litters of red blood cells carry the same amount of O2. though maybe it can store more co2...

10x, I was intending to get back to meditaion some day...

 

[xsaul]

Hi Eric,

What is GABA?? I dunno what kind of meditation you mean, but I have tried Yoga techniques--they DO increase holding times.
Excuse my ignorance in proper terminology....
Water Rat

 

[Kars]

XSaul, your anser to your GABA-question is in post #86 by Dallesdiver.

Maybe we could come to a sort of round-up of things to focus on when one has acheaved the 6:30.

I recon the following aspects:

- Food
- rest and exercise rhythm
- Meditation

I have a question about the slowing down of heart.
Aparently the lower one can go, the better.
How can one learn to go low through the use of our mind and / or spirit.
Training now seems to be like just like regular muscle building, just have more repeditive time into the zone and the body adjusts to that. I would like to add to that a mental stimulation, and streamline and optimise this process.

In addition to this I wonder what lows do people have acheaved here? I know it's not the speed, but the blood troughput the heart puts out.

Recently I landed on a HR of 33, and it felt like it was of a normal strength and efficiency rate.
Friday I'll have another wet static training, using a HR monitor.
My PB is 6:50, So 'm right into the target area!

Thanks for the insights, the heart idea is a great field for exploring.

Love, Peace and Water!

Kars

 

[efattah]

Pulse is no that important, CARDIAC OUTPUT is what really matters. Oxygen consumption of the heart is related to the cardic output.

The cardiac output is generally related to the metabolic demand of the body. When your metabolism slows down, the need for O2 in the body is less, so the heart pumps less blood = lower cardiac output.

Cardiac output = Pulse x stroke volume
(in other words, number of beats per minute x amount of blood in litres pumped with each beat)

High level athletes typically have low pulses, with high stroke volume, and at rest their cardiac output is a bit less than a couch potato due to higher efficiency in the body.

 

[SEDATE]

Dear Eric
Yesterday:
i checked my blood pressure in a normal position, doing do nothing, just relaxing... it was;
HT=85 mmHg LT= 51 mmHg HB=58/min
then, i decided to make a strong HV to make my blood alkaline to know what is gonna be the result?!
10 times i made a strong hiperventilation until feel a headacke, i stop and checked the result..
HT:87mmHg LT:55mmHg HB=62/min
i saw no any big changing in HT and LT ratio, i did not understood!
Would you please make your comment on this case if you have an idea?
Regards
HT:higt tension LT=low tension HB=Heartbeat ratio/min

 

[Kars]

Eric I understood it's the cardiac output, and also that a sporters heart is much more efficient and does transfer more blood in a pulse.
The HR is just a indicator, 1/2 part of the equation, I know.

Is there a way to become aware of the bloodflow?

What are good ways to bring down the metabolism?

- Meditation is, but are there any specific points one may want to focus on, certain key points?

Can we draw up a comparison between time spent below a certain O2 saturation in the week and the amount of progress one can expect?

I like quality training, and favour the 'smart' way above the 'just do the X number of repetitions'.

Can we say that a 8' person in general has found out to relax deeper than when he was just at 6' level? What is the difference?

What is limiting our abilities to expand our relaxation? Will, the mind, time?

Love, Peace and Water!

 

[jome]

As important as relaxation is, I think the "beyond 6:30" level is a result of a whole range of adaptations. Both mental and physiological. High intensity, repetative training induces some physiological adaptations, meditation, relaxation and "quality statics" induce some others...But to be "all you can be", one must obviously master all of them. I think with a single approach or school you can easily get to that 6+ shape, and that's why it seems to be the magic number that a lot get stuck on. But to go further, you must keep trying and "work on the weakest muscle", so to speak. Not concentrate on your strengths, but your weaknesess.

Personally, as much as I like to emhasize the importance of relaxation, will power etc, I have to be a realist and say that a lot of it comes down to blood quality, lung size and packing. It's still not something I recommend for beginners, but if you look at the top names, all of them (or at least most), pack really, really much.

 

[Oligo]

Jome is probably right.

We have to look at empirical evidence. All athletes capable of very long holding times have two things: The ability to minimize oxygen consumption and the ability to store huge amounts of oxygen. Of these two, the ability to store a lot of oxygen is the more important one as the human body is more able to increase oxygen stores than to lower oxygen consumption.

By the way, theoretical calculations with empirically measured tissue oxygen consumption rates and other variables predict maximum holding times around 9-12 minutes without unconsciousness, not several hours. I once did these calculations using variables obtained from my own medical data. I could predict my maximum holding time with an error of just 10 seconds.

Also, people cannot change their DNA by visualizing something in their minds. You are stuck with what you have been given, until gene therapy becomes commonplace.