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Custom spearguns pictures
- Thread starterOregonSpearo
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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Hi all..
Just have a few questions..
Does the laminates have to be from the same plank?? I cut a bunch of teak laminates (around 70 peices) and taped each 10 peices together standing straight up for drying but theyr all mixed up together from all the different planks i cut. Is this going to be a problem??
Also.. with the west system epoxy.. i got the 105 resin and 209 super slow hardner which is whats available here.. I read people using 205 hardner... Is there a difference between the 205 and the 209?
Whats the mixing ratios? 1:1 ?
Thanx in advance.
Thanx
Zane...
Just have a few questions..
Does the laminates have to be from the same plank?? I cut a bunch of teak laminates (around 70 peices) and taped each 10 peices together standing straight up for drying but theyr all mixed up together from all the different planks i cut. Is this going to be a problem??
Also.. with the west system epoxy.. i got the 105 resin and 209 super slow hardner which is whats available here.. I read people using 205 hardner... Is there a difference between the 205 and the 209?
Whats the mixing ratios? 1:1 ?
Thanx in advance.
Thanx
Zane...
Read the hardener bottle for mixing ratios! I think the 209 is a 3:1 mix like the 207 is.
The only difference between the 205/206 & the 209 is the cure time. In summer here (now!) its a problem gluing up large stocks with over 7 laminates because the glue goes off so fast.
The only difference between the 205/206 & the 209 is the cure time. In summer here (now!) its a problem gluing up large stocks with over 7 laminates because the glue goes off so fast.
First bump just happened while i was working on the laminated teak stock... It DELAMINATED about 6 inches at the end on the stock
I used west system epoxy 105 with 209 slow hardner... 3 cap full resin to 1 cap full hardner.
Could i have not used enough on the wood?? Whats the right amount?
I was using a brush and brushing over the laminates then putting them together with a vice for couple days.
I cleaned with acetone rough sanded meeting sides before laminating...
How long do i have to wait before i start laminating after the acetone?
Also how much pressure should i be putting on the laminates while they dry?
Thanx again
Zane...
I used west system epoxy 105 with 209 slow hardner... 3 cap full resin to 1 cap full hardner.
Could i have not used enough on the wood?? Whats the right amount?
I was using a brush and brushing over the laminates then putting them together with a vice for couple days.
I cleaned with acetone rough sanded meeting sides before laminating...
How long do i have to wait before i start laminating after the acetone?
Also how much pressure should i be putting on the laminates while they dry?
Thanx again
Zane...
Last edited:
Hi Zane (great name) Teak is one of the most difficult woods to laminate because of its high oil content. The key to success is to make sure the wood is well seasoned & to use low viscosity epoxy followed by thickened epoxy. You can buy low viscosity epoxy on line but you could warm your product first & apply a thin coat, when this becomes tacky apply a second glue coat thickened with powder.
Epoxy can be tempermental & has quite a short shelf life but is still the best product to glue teak. The pricable is the low viscosity glue seeps into the wood fibres & the second coat glues the lamanites together.
Epoxy can be tempermental & has quite a short shelf life but is still the best product to glue teak. The pricable is the low viscosity glue seeps into the wood fibres & the second coat glues the lamanites together.
Very good advices from Foxfish as usual.
As for the thinning of epoxy you could read this: http://www.westsystem.com/ewmag/14/ThinningEpoxy.html
It is very useful. In a few words - do not thin epoxy It will loose its qualities. The best thing is to heat either the epoxy or the wood.
I use hair dryer and it works very well. If you are in the right place of the world and have lots of sun you could also leave the wood on the sun for a few minutes to warm up.
As for the thinning of epoxy you could read this: http://www.westsystem.com/ewmag/14/ThinningEpoxy.html
It is very useful. In a few words - do not thin epoxy
It will loose its qualities. The best thing is to heat either the epoxy or the wood. I use hair dryer and it works very well. If you are in the right place of the world and have lots of sun you could also leave the wood on the sun for a few minutes to warm up.
Excellent.. hopefully that'll solve my problem.
Basically what i did wrong is i just applied glue and slapped the lams together!
So fellaz... Do u think i should try and fix this stock im working with by putting some epoxy where it delaminated... Or should i just ditch the thing and start a new one?
Thanx for the help guys!!
Basically what i did wrong is i just applied glue and slapped the lams together!
So fellaz... Do u think i should try and fix this stock im working with by putting some epoxy where it delaminated... Or should i just ditch the thing and start a new one?
Thanx for the help guys!!
Hi Zane,
Here is some more useful info on West System Epoxy 105 Systems from my experience:
205 is fast hardner- minimum recomended temp 40° F (4°C) 5:1 ratio
206 is slow hardner-minimum recomended temp 60° F (16° C) 5:1 ratio
207 is special coating hardner -minimum temp 60° F (16° C) 3:1 ratio
209 is extra slow hardener - minimum temp 70° F ( 21° C) 3:1 ratio
206 should be used when working at areas with highter temp. 207 works well with fiberglass applications and natural wood. 209 is used in extremely warm and humid conditions. Teak is really tricky material to laminate and glue with epoxy. Using heat will help, but if you heat it too much the "teak oil" will start to float toward the surface on the planks and this will prevent the epoxy from penatrating and bonding. Some acetone purchased from stores is not always100% - it is better to use automotive laquer thiner. It gives a very good results in cleaning and dissolving the oil from the laminated surfaces. The thinner has to dry completely before applying the epoxy. Roughen up the surface on teak with sharp knife in cross hatch pattern before applying, it will help the epoxy to penetrate deeper. Do not over tighten when clamping the laminates- this will squeeze out all the epoxy. For the section which was delaminated and needs to be fixed- if it is possible open it a little by inserting a knife blade and try to sand it internally with strip of sand paper. Using medical or industrial syringe with needle squirt some epoxy mix into the opening and spread it -then clamp the laminates.
I wish you good luck!
Jordan
www.hamiltonspearguns.com
Here is some more useful info on West System Epoxy 105 Systems from my experience:
205 is fast hardner- minimum recomended temp 40° F (4°C) 5:1 ratio
206 is slow hardner-minimum recomended temp 60° F (16° C) 5:1 ratio
207 is special coating hardner -minimum temp 60° F (16° C) 3:1 ratio
209 is extra slow hardener - minimum temp 70° F ( 21° C) 3:1 ratio
206 should be used when working at areas with highter temp. 207 works well with fiberglass applications and natural wood. 209 is used in extremely warm and humid conditions. Teak is really tricky material to laminate and glue with epoxy. Using heat will help, but if you heat it too much the "teak oil" will start to float toward the surface on the planks and this will prevent the epoxy from penatrating and bonding. Some acetone purchased from stores is not always100% - it is better to use automotive laquer thiner. It gives a very good results in cleaning and dissolving the oil from the laminated surfaces. The thinner has to dry completely before applying the epoxy. Roughen up the surface on teak with sharp knife in cross hatch pattern before applying, it will help the epoxy to penetrate deeper. Do not over tighten when clamping the laminates- this will squeeze out all the epoxy. For the section which was delaminated and needs to be fixed- if it is possible open it a little by inserting a knife blade and try to sand it internally with strip of sand paper. Using medical or industrial syringe with needle squirt some epoxy mix into the opening and spread it -then clamp the laminates.
I wish you good luck!
Jordan
www.hamiltonspearguns.com
Thank you Boss.. The gun is out in the sun as i type.. about to fix the delaminated part.
I also got some thickening powder to use on the second coat of epoxy. So im gonna (on the new stock) heat the woods, then brush a thin coat of epoxy and let it sit till it gets sticky then apply the second coat thickened!
Ill post pics of the gun soon.. i think it looks awsome heh
Thanx
Zane...
I also got some thickening powder to use on the second coat of epoxy. So im gonna (on the new stock) heat the woods, then brush a thin coat of epoxy and let it sit till it gets sticky then apply the second coat thickened!
Ill post pics of the gun soon.. i think it looks awsome heh
Thanx
Zane...
While im waiting for my gun and the other stocks i laminated to cure, i thought ill ask this question...
How do u make sure that when ur done building the gun that its gonna shoot straight and be an accurate gun and what are the things that one must make sure to do and take his time doing to ensure an accurate gun?
The only thing i can think of as the answer would be to cut out a straight rail! Anything else?
Thanx
Zane...
How do u make sure that when ur done building the gun that its gonna shoot straight and be an accurate gun and what are the things that one must make sure to do and take his time doing to ensure an accurate gun?
The only thing i can think of as the answer would be to cut out a straight rail! Anything else?
Thanx
Zane...
Apart as you say from the obvious straight rail and general sound condition of your stock making a good gun is quite tricky. Accuracy and general all round good performance has most to do with the size and weight of the spear, the type, length and power of the bands and the design, mass and balance of the stock. IMHO the most important is the diameter of the spear in relation to the power of the bands and the mass of the stock in relation to the power of the bands. Very basically big power needs thick spears and high mass stocks. Getting the balance of these 3 variables is the secret to a sweet gun. The very clever shaping of the stock makes a gun look nice but doesn't have a lot to do with how it performs. Many very good guns have simple round, square or rectangular section stocks with little refinement but have the right balance of powerbands, spear size and stock mass. However a nice shaped stock can look great and inspire confidence but wont be worth a damn if the other factors are wrong.
Dave
Dave
Hi Zane,
Your first step after laminating and curing the planks will be to machine/mill the stock and to assure perfectly straight sides. Some builders cut a V shaped groove, some cut a U shaped rail -depending on the equipment available to them or their preference. Take your time doing this operation. Prepare all nessesary holding jigs and fixtures in order to make this job right and to end up with a straight rail. The accuracy, performance and power on the gun is greatly effected by the number and dia. of power bands, their position in the muzzle, lenght/dia.shaft, balance/ballast for recoil etc. As a general rule the heavier 3/8"dia. shafts will have more "punch" but will lack on "long" distance, which the smaller 5/16" dia. shafts will have, but not so much on "penetrating" on that distance. What type of speargun you are building, what lenght /width stock, how many and what size power bands, what lenght and dia. shaft you are planing to use with this gun? There is nothing wrong to add your personal touch and shape the gun stock to make the speargun look very nice. In some cases -like rounding the edgess -the gun will actualy benefit in reducing the resistance in side movements -which comes in very handy.
Regards
Jordan
www.hamiltonspearguns.com
Your first step after laminating and curing the planks will be to machine/mill the stock and to assure perfectly straight sides. Some builders cut a V shaped groove, some cut a U shaped rail -depending on the equipment available to them or their preference. Take your time doing this operation. Prepare all nessesary holding jigs and fixtures in order to make this job right and to end up with a straight rail. The accuracy, performance and power on the gun is greatly effected by the number and dia. of power bands, their position in the muzzle, lenght/dia.shaft, balance/ballast for recoil etc. As a general rule the heavier 3/8"dia. shafts will have more "punch" but will lack on "long" distance, which the smaller 5/16" dia. shafts will have, but not so much on "penetrating" on that distance. What type of speargun you are building, what lenght /width stock, how many and what size power bands, what lenght and dia. shaft you are planing to use with this gun? There is nothing wrong to add your personal touch and shape the gun stock to make the speargun look very nice. In some cases -like rounding the edgess -the gun will actualy benefit in reducing the resistance in side movements -which comes in very handy.
Regards
Jordan
www.hamiltonspearguns.com
Thanx for your relies guys..
The gun im trying to build is somthing that will take from one to three or maybe four rubbers but will start it out with a 2x16 or 2x17.5.. all depending on the final shape of the gun.
As for shafts i will use anything from 6.25 up to maybe a max of 8mm.
I will take pics of the gun and post it on here with its dimentions and maybe u guys can be kind to tell me what u think would be a good or the best combo for it.
So another question i have is what is the best way to balance my gun and how? I know its good to have it a little nose heavy. So how do i start after the gun is ready?
Thanx again fellaz:friday
Zane...
The gun im trying to build is somthing that will take from one to three or maybe four rubbers but will start it out with a 2x16 or 2x17.5.. all depending on the final shape of the gun.
As for shafts i will use anything from 6.25 up to maybe a max of 8mm.
I will take pics of the gun and post it on here with its dimentions and maybe u guys can be kind to tell me what u think would be a good or the best combo for it.
So another question i have is what is the best way to balance my gun and how? I know its good to have it a little nose heavy. So how do i start after the gun is ready?
Thanx again fellaz:friday
Zane...
SpeerO said:
Hi Zane,
When you finish the stock and rig it (shaft, bands, reel if you're going to use one etc.) you simply take it in the water. Get some different size pieces of lead and some duck tape and try different combinations.
The balance is alot of a personal preference. I prefer my guns to be light at the muzzle, so I only put lead inside the handle. Sometimes the guns don't even need any lead at all.
When you get the gun in the water and determine the exact amount of lead it needs you simply drill a small hole, put the lead inside and glue everything with epoxy.
The other way to go is to make a hole on the front and/or a hole inside the handle to put some small lead balls inside. In this way you can change the balance whenever you want. Some of the prefessional manufacturers do that (O.ME.R's Master America and Cobra guns for example). If you do this you need to come up with a design to cover the holes. You can screw a metal or even wooden cap to cover them.
One more thing. I think the stocks of a gun holding 2x16mm bands and a gun holding 2x18mm bands or even 4x16mm bands should be very different. The later combination will need a big massive stock to cope with the big recoil of so much bands! More of an American type of gun or a blue water gun.
My advice is to decide if you want to make a 2x16mm band gun, which will have less mass and will be more manouvrable, or you want a huge gun with 4 bands for large prey. The size and therefore the design of the stock should be determined by the amount of power you plan to put on the gun.
That's just my opinion.
Happy building!