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Euro vs. American???
- Thread starterWavespin
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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Big tits big fish and nice guns
Thanks fellas. After all that talking I figured you guys would think I was full of S#$@! if I didn't get out and shoot a good fish or two
Now if you like all of the above: then you know the answer to your question is neither, I like big fish as much as I like nice guns and big ____
:friday
Thanks fellas. After all that talking I figured you guys would think I was full of S#$@! if I didn't get out and shoot a good fish or two
Now if you like all of the above: then you know the answer to your question is neither, I like big fish as much as I like nice guns and big ____
:friday
Sharkfin Shafts for Omer and similar mechs.
I have not forgotten Shaca. Also Miles this might interest you, Here's a look at the first (unoficial ) production full shark fin shafts for our mechanisms and other similar round half moon shape tail mechanisms. I had them made five years ago for my custom teak Omer gun but we never had a good enough excuse to produce them. This is a 9/32" (7.1mm) but I also have a couple 5/16" with 6mm thread.
They seem to be nice and look cool in open muzzle guns. The main advantage I see with these shafts aside from the higher strength of the sharkfin instead of notches is that the line attaches to the front sharkfin and doesn't get in the way like it does on regular shafts for Euro guns when tied to the back hole.
Ciao, Mark
ps Don Moore- I thought about you when I installed the articulated wishbone:t
I have not forgotten Shaca. Also Miles this might interest you, Here's a look at the first (unoficial
) production full shark fin shafts for our mechanisms and other similar round half moon shape tail mechanisms. I had them made five years ago for my custom teak Omer gun but we never had a good enough excuse to produce them. This is a 9/32" (7.1mm) but I also have a couple 5/16" with 6mm thread. They seem to be nice and look cool in open muzzle guns. The main advantage I see with these shafts aside from the higher strength of the sharkfin instead of notches is that the line attaches to the front sharkfin and doesn't get in the way like it does on regular shafts for Euro guns when tied to the back hole.
Ciao, Mark
ps Don Moore- I thought about you when I installed the articulated wishbone:t
Attachments
Yeah Erik,
that would be great, since i can't really see one, besides the one stated by Mark - the line won't mess anymore. And maybe the one that it doesnt hamper the overall strength of the shaft= Other than that, it cant really serve as a stabilizer (like on the arrows)q cause it's on only one side. And I'll be surprised if it doesn't affect accuracy that way, insignificantly or not..
Cheers!
that would be great, since i can't really see one, besides the one stated by Mark - the line won't mess anymore. And maybe the one that it doesnt hamper the overall strength of the shaft= Other than that, it cant really serve as a stabilizer (like on the arrows)q cause it's on only one side. And I'll be surprised if it doesn't affect accuracy that way, insignificantly or not..
Cheers!
The shark fins are nice cause its alot easier to load, on more than on occasion Ive pulled back my short bands on my RA only to have it give me hell trying to get the wishbone in the grooved slot, after Ive already loaded the first band. The fin effectively elimates this due to is height. Its is the most common shaft used on American type guns.
My First real gun was a large Riffe and I have so missed those shafts on my RA.
Almost forgot the ID of the fins are smooth which gives extra life to fiber wishbones.
Not to mention its gives the gun a little extra "Smooth Points" as Sven likes to put it.
Anthony
My First real gun was a large Riffe and I have so missed those shafts on my RA.
Almost forgot the ID of the fins are smooth which gives extra life to fiber wishbones.
Not to mention its gives the gun a little extra "Smooth Points" as Sven likes to put it.
Anthony
Thanks, Anthony,
If that's all, I don't think I'd be easily convinced to switch though...
I see on Mark's photo that the fin twists the wishbone like this "\___". Maybe it's from the viewing angle, but if that's the case I'd bet a $20 that it would shorten their life! Maybe it's because the shark fins are used with "dyneema"?
IB
If that's all, I don't think I'd be easily convinced to switch though...
I see on Mark's photo that the fin twists the wishbone like this "\___". Maybe it's from the viewing angle, but if that's the case I'd bet a $20 that it would shorten their life! Maybe it's because the shark fins are used with "dyneema"?
IB
Re: "the proof is in the pudding"
Hi Mark, I dont think that this is a fair comment to make. I dont know what the other speargun manufacturers are up to, but i have spoken with one who does go into a lot of effort, like 3D Cad detailing.
That said I'm sure that Omer (as you say its the biggest in the world) can afford to invest a lot more capital into a product because of its size and there will definately be advantages as a result, but this is more a bussiness related descision, isnt it?
As far as the Euro-American debate goes doesnt it basically come down to what the people around you are using.
for example, multi rubber "american" guns use thicker shafts. if you bend a shaft here in SA its just one of those things. actually its cool, because you say "man, check it out, the fish was sooo huge it bent my shaft"
i got the idea that in the states if your shaft gets bent its because its a piece of Shit.
my own gun is a 110 Ra, and its range is probably not as good as say a riffe of the same barrel length, so there are fish that i dont get because they stay away. for us (all guys i know dive with euro-style guns) its just one of those things, for others, maybe its unacceptable.
I'm willing to comprimise a bit of range for easier shore entries. just means we have to work a bit harder to get the fish.
(Sorta like the girl debate)
I have a question for you guys, how can one gun be more powerful than another, unless the trigger mech is the limiting factor. doesnt the power come from how much oomf you can put into the rubbers, whatever the speargun is you are loading.
are some guns, like the 42 biller mentioned in another post just to micky mouse to take the same load as say a riffe?
Hi Mark, I dont think that this is a fair comment to make. I dont know what the other speargun manufacturers are up to, but i have spoken with one who does go into a lot of effort, like 3D Cad detailing.
That said I'm sure that Omer (as you say its the biggest in the world) can afford to invest a lot more capital into a product because of its size and there will definately be advantages as a result, but this is more a bussiness related descision, isnt it?
As far as the Euro-American debate goes doesnt it basically come down to what the people around you are using.
for example, multi rubber "american" guns use thicker shafts. if you bend a shaft here in SA its just one of those things. actually its cool, because you say "man, check it out, the fish was sooo huge it bent my shaft"
i got the idea that in the states if your shaft gets bent its because its a piece of Shit.
my own gun is a 110 Ra, and its range is probably not as good as say a riffe of the same barrel length, so there are fish that i dont get because they stay away. for us (all guys i know dive with euro-style guns) its just one of those things, for others, maybe its unacceptable.
I'm willing to comprimise a bit of range for easier shore entries. just means we have to work a bit harder to get the fish.
(Sorta like the girl debate)
I have a question for you guys, how can one gun be more powerful than another, unless the trigger mech is the limiting factor. doesnt the power come from how much oomf you can put into the rubbers, whatever the speargun is you are loading.
are some guns, like the 42 biller mentioned in another post just to micky mouse to take the same load as say a riffe?
Re: Re: "the proof is in the pudding"
You got it precisely, Griif. There are lots of better trigger mechs out there. Also, I understand there is a significant power gain from having the powerbands in-line with the shaft at the muzzle versus having them attached below the shaft. The shaft weight to power ratio is critical to speed as well. I know Mark Labocetta has the numbers on this bit of physics and I know he's got lots of info regarding what makes an efficient speargun. Other makers have their views on this topic too, of course. I prefer the accuracy and efficiency of euro type guns for most applications and find plenty of power with a 7mm shaft and even one powerband. You probably know it better than I.
Mark
[/B][/QUOTE] I have a question for you guys, how can one gun be more powerful than another, unless the trigger mech is the limiting factor. doesnt the power come from how much oomf you can put into the rubbers, whatever the speargun is you are loading.
are some guns, like the 42 biller mentioned in another post just to micky mouse to take the same load as say a riffe? [/B][/QUOTE]
You got it precisely, Griif. There are lots of better trigger mechs out there. Also, I understand there is a significant power gain from having the powerbands in-line with the shaft at the muzzle versus having them attached below the shaft. The shaft weight to power ratio is critical to speed as well. I know Mark Labocetta has the numbers on this bit of physics and I know he's got lots of info regarding what makes an efficient speargun. Other makers have their views on this topic too, of course. I prefer the accuracy and efficiency of euro type guns for most applications and find plenty of power with a 7mm shaft and even one powerband. You probably know it better than I.
Mark
[/B][/QUOTE] I have a question for you guys, how can one gun be more powerful than another, unless the trigger mech is the limiting factor. doesnt the power come from how much oomf you can put into the rubbers, whatever the speargun is you are loading.
are some guns, like the 42 biller mentioned in another post just to micky mouse to take the same load as say a riffe? [/B][/QUOTE]
What is CNC?
CNC stands for Computer Numeric Control, in the context of a machine shop this term applies to any machine that is controlled by a computer. The computer that controls the machine is generally a standard PC. If you take a look under the hood, it is the unique software and the control console that gives it it's value as a shop tool. A CNC machine is well suited for jobs that require high levels of precision, parts with very complex shapes and repetitive jobs that require anywhere from a few to hundreds or more parts be made identical.
Given the above I am not sure of the advantage CNC has in the speargun industry other than to allow mass produced items to be produced for less money to the manufacturer. As to the quality aspect it would seem that there is very little CNC can contribute at this point other than the money savings. Most manufacturers have perfected their trigger mechanisms and barrel shapes by now and have been using the same ones or very slight variations of them for years.
Here in the states Omer has released a low end speargun called the Dragon. It retails for $129.00. Based on that price it probably costs Omer Italy less than $20 to produce. Based upon price point alone I would not call this a "high-end" speargun. However, it is perhaps in this context that CNC is of most value. Mass produced items at a Wal-Mart price (extremely low end price for those outside the USA).
Please don't interpret this a knock on Omer. I love their footpockets and masks. In fact, I own an old 106cm Blackmaster that I refuse to retire. However, that being said I also believe that there are many other high quality speargun companies to choose from in the market place whether it be the Euro or American Style you seek. Using CNC alone does not automatically confer "high-end" status or "quality" on the product.
CNC stands for Computer Numeric Control, in the context of a machine shop this term applies to any machine that is controlled by a computer. The computer that controls the machine is generally a standard PC. If you take a look under the hood, it is the unique software and the control console that gives it it's value as a shop tool. A CNC machine is well suited for jobs that require high levels of precision, parts with very complex shapes and repetitive jobs that require anywhere from a few to hundreds or more parts be made identical.
Given the above I am not sure of the advantage CNC has in the speargun industry other than to allow mass produced items to be produced for less money to the manufacturer. As to the quality aspect it would seem that there is very little CNC can contribute at this point other than the money savings. Most manufacturers have perfected their trigger mechanisms and barrel shapes by now and have been using the same ones or very slight variations of them for years.
Here in the states Omer has released a low end speargun called the Dragon. It retails for $129.00. Based on that price it probably costs Omer Italy less than $20 to produce. Based upon price point alone I would not call this a "high-end" speargun. However, it is perhaps in this context that CNC is of most value. Mass produced items at a Wal-Mart price (extremely low end price for those outside the USA).
Please don't interpret this a knock on Omer. I love their footpockets and masks. In fact, I own an old 106cm Blackmaster that I refuse to retire. However, that being said I also believe that there are many other high quality speargun companies to choose from in the market place whether it be the Euro or American Style you seek. Using CNC alone does not automatically confer "high-end" status or "quality" on the product.
the "abmiller" is a australian made gun (made by seahornet) i use one sometimes its pretty powerful and can take alot bands ive got a single 18mm band shortened ALOT these style of guns are very cumbersome and scare fish away as the rubber vibrates in the water when you swing it, i cut the bit of timber off the end making into a "euro style"gun (nolonger mid handle) its improved a bit but its still cumbersome they also use a 8mm shaft which is silly as it slows it down alot,
IMO these midhandle guns are only good for big stoopid fish like grouper (im VERY against shooting these)
IMO these midhandle guns are only good for big stoopid fish like grouper (im VERY against shooting these)
Don,
You were being kind. The one thing that Mark said that is correct is that Addict type (mid handle) guns are subject to rotational forces when fired. As a young man I got hit up side the head a couple of times until it was explained that BIG Addict guns recoil that way. They are TWO HAND guns. The guy that explained it was named Houchen. He was a member of the 'Addicts' club and he is the inventor of the mid handle gun. He got the idea from the Cressi spring guns which were mid handle and sold here in the 1950's. They were the main competition to the French Arbalette.
A lot of that physics essay was nonsense.
You were being kind. The one thing that Mark said that is correct is that Addict type (mid handle) guns are subject to rotational forces when fired. As a young man I got hit up side the head a couple of times until it was explained that BIG Addict guns recoil that way. They are TWO HAND guns. The guy that explained it was named Houchen. He was a member of the 'Addicts' club and he is the inventor of the mid handle gun. He got the idea from the Cressi spring guns which were mid handle and sold here in the 1950's. They were the main competition to the French Arbalette.
A lot of that physics essay was nonsense.
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