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Fin Lineup - Any Questions?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Ivan, before I got the BAT 40s I was using the O.ME.R Milleniums (Riffe Silent Hunters), not the Comps. When I decided to get the 40s I knew I wanted a stiffer fin and I wanted to try composite, flat blades, as opposed to blades with the angle. The total length of the BAT 40s with O.ME.R. size 40-42 foot pockets is 89cm. I agree that for what you want the longer Matrixes might work better.:)
 
Hi!

Well, Kelpie.....

I have been using them a lot this Fall...actually even more than my Hybrids. They are not quite as good as Hybrids in providing propulsion but are nevertheless VERY good in that. They are slightly longer than Hybrids (+400mm) and somewhat narrower (-200mm). We wished to provide a blade that is still pretty close to traditional freediving fins in shape. They are actually a variant of PRO freediving fin with few things changed and coloured lamination resin added.

Murat, if you are less than 90kg's in bodyweight, hard Kelpies will work like a dream even with heavier lead loads...if you have VERY powerful legs or are heavier that 90kg's, you may need to consider ExHards. You can contact me for further details by PM or email at nurmi.mikko@pp.nic.fi.

Hope that helps.

Safe dives,
Mikko
 
Originally posted by Pezman
@Sven

Are the Matrix blades mounted "smooth side down", ?

The blades are normally mounted smooth (and logo) up, but they will certainly work either way. Especially with the stiffer blades, it makes no difference at all.

BTW, the 5's are stiff but don't feel as stiff as other "stiff" blades because of the graduated taper (which is also the key to performance). The tips are soft and get progressively stiffer. If you dive for many hours a day you'll feel the difference of stiffer fins. We have many customers that are strong divers that still prefer the medium stiffness.

For the longer custom fins, the 4s and 5s typically feel better because of the increased leverage.

Paul Verveniotis
www.20fathoms.com
 
Paul,
My fiancee got me a pair of your fins for Christmas. Simply amazing performance from a set of #3's. I keep hitting them together, so I have to get used to them over my Cressi's. I am used to using very stiff fins, so it will take a bit to adjust. Otherwise, I am excited to use them more in the upcoming season. Thanks for the great product!
 
hi guys

I ended up going with a custom length pair of 5# stiffness Matrixes. Paul says that they should be here in around 4 weeks so Im keen as to give them a roost and review :cool:

Sven you done with that fin test yet Im desperately waiting to hear about the comparisons :)

cheers
 
Thanks for the response guys....

Mikko, i will contact with you soon, close to the 2004 competition in cyprus. I guess its in june or something. When i adjust my budget for the new fin.....

By the way, if you compare same stiffness of hybrid and kelpie what is the difference between surface swimming? Surface swimming is another key issue here, since we spear generally between 4-6 hours, with nonstop surface swimming from shore and dive depth can change from 5 meters up to 30 meters (not for me yet but it will soon:D )...

Thanks...
 
Murat, that sounds a lot like the way I hunt. One thing that I have found that makes long surface swims easier is to get up on my body board float so that the back of the board is about at my waist. This gets my fins down deeper in the water and makes long swims easier and quicker, even with a stringer of fish hanging under the board. I only do this to get somewhere quickly. Obviously it won't work very well for hunting through an area.:)
 
Unfortunatelly i don't have board float neither material is available to DIY, and surface swimming mostly covers in hunting area...
 
I've used Cressi HFs for the past couple years and swithed over to the Matrixx with #3 blades. At first they felt softer on normal kicks and I was thinking to myself "what's all the hype?" But after a few dives, I hit some current and really put some muscle into the kicks, and the fins just perform. I too hit the fins together when kicking, guess I'm use to the slimmer Cressis. The #3s sometimes have a slight pop when kicking, not sure if it's my style of kicking. Shouldn't be a problem when hunting fish unless I really turn on the motor to chase the big one. I wouldn't mind trying a set of #4 or for backup on boat only dives. For shore diving, the 3's are perfect.
 
Originally posted by uluapoundr
The #3s sometimes have a slight pop when kicking, not sure if it's my style of kicking.

You need to use a fuller kick wih these fins and you'll eliminate the "pop".

PV
 
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Murat,

Hybrids are slightly better for surface swimming as they are a tad shorter, hence less prone to "sticking". However, compared to fins without toe angle, they are MUCH better for swimming.

There is a difference, but if you are upgrading from plastic fins....both will be very good for you.

Cheers,
Mikko
 
Does someone ever try the new Beuchat Carbon Fins, people, here in France used to say that those fins are better than the C4 !!!

Any advices??
 
Shaneshac could tell you about them, last night he told how great the carbon beuchats.
 
Hey Cece,

My local spearfishing store owner swears by the carbon beuchat fins.

He tests all the new equipment so he can advise customers and says that they are awesome.

Really reactive without being overstiff. The carbon is a lot more resistant than C4, Omer and Picasso. It does not have the rubber rails on the edges of the blades but this does not appear to affect the performance.

I have a set of Mundial Elites and I love the Beuchat footpockets. Wider than cressi and Omer which is a must for me.

I won't buy carbon fins because of my brutal diving style, but those are the ones I would go for if I did.
 
Thank you Shane,

It seems that those Fins are awesome.

I use a pair of old carbon fins from Beuchat, those fins are good but it seems that new generation are the best
 
THIS IS A MONSTER THREAD, BUT DAMN FINE WITH IT!

MY FAVOURITE TOPIC ! :king

Have I ranted about this before? ;)

This thread started of as a comparison and that's what I'm going to bring it back to by adding my own take on fins, finning and a serious lump of cash that has brought me full circle to an unexpected pair of fins that doesn't seem to have been mentioned. Firstly, my list of fins that I have owned (many, many), or used (a few more) with a note for each.

Everyone knows that fibre is better than plastic, so I won't rant about that. Likewise carbon is too brittle for spearing which puts us into fibreglass/fibreplastic fins are best for spearing and carbon are best for deep freediving.

For my sins, I have had:

Sporasub Cruise - use 'em for hockey, use 'em for swimming down the river, but not for deep diving.
Mares Power quattro - Ditto
Nemod spearing fins - a joke
Cressi Rondine Garas - OK footpockets that take any blade, out of production
Cressi 2000HF - fine with no socks, crap with socks, too stiff for elegant freediving
Cressi 2000LD - Ditto, but less stiff
Picasso black team - don't think much of the footpockets and they are too stiff
Picasso twisters - insanely stiff and a daft shape
Sporasub plastics (various stiffnesses) - one of the best plastic fins
Sporasub radicals - soft but efficient
Sporasub Pure (original corrugated) - nice
Sporasub pure (new model) too stiff and unstable
Mares attack - unstable
Mtechnic medium - nice
Mtechnic Hard - perfect for deep
C4 (old) - too stiff
C4 - 25, 30, 40 - ditto to above
Omer carbon (old) - way too stiff (same as old C4s)
Omer carbon (new) - too stiff, but better

Stiffness: It looks like I keep thinking all fins are too stiff, but I AM NOT A WEAKLING! :( It is due to oxygen efficiency with finning especially at the surface, and due to blade mechanics of certain fin designs. I too like the feeling of power you get with a stiff fin - my Twisters were insanely stiff and I could have dragged boats around with them ;) but they were by no means oxygen efficient (and failed on other accounts too, until some little nimrod stole them.... :( ...but all was not lost, I got the money back on insurance :) )

Blade mechanics - blades either bend in a smooth arc in which case it doesn't really matter how fast you kick, and stiffer fins work OK, although they are less O2 efficient; or tfins bend just after the toes like the sporasub type do. Most people don't like these second kind of fins much as they feel weak when you first get them, but people appreciate that they are going at a reasonable speed with little effort. However when you kick harder - they don't respond. Under load, a hard kick does nothing and so people freak out at depth. I did one of the first times I was down at 20m with a 9kg weightbelt on! :D The difference with these fins is that they work very differently when you fin fast, as the blade then bends along the length, not just after the footpockets. You suddenly get an amazing increase in power and still maintain reasonable oxygen efficiency without burning your legs too badly.

So having owned about 20 pairs of fins for freediving, I now have settled on 2:

1 stock pair of Mtechnic hard bladed fins with tight footpockets (for non-spearing)
1 adapted pair of Mares Attack with slightly loose pockets so I can wear thick socks in the winter (for spearing).

Why the attacks, when they weren't good to start with....because they had potential! :D This is how and why I have changed the Attacks (I wish I had a digicamera):

1) The colour is no good for spearing. I orignally covered them in camouflage tape. Despite being matt coloured the tape was reflective underwater and they ended up as fish scaring devices. I then realised I could sand them and then spray them with polycarbonate paint (like you get for Radio controlled cars). Works a treat - they are now matt and dark - I couldn't be bothered making them camo - as it always seems to look weird.

2) Wiggling and rails: These are rally unstable fins (like many others are) since it often easier for the blade to move through the water in a zig-zag, than in a straight line. If you have perfect technique, this is no longer a problem, but when spearing, technique needs to be constantly adjusted according to which contorted body position you are in. So.....I made rails for them, just like the mtechnics and C4s have. This works a treat, and stops the cracking sound when you bash them on rocks etc.

3) Footpockets - sporasubs or omers - Nothing else comes far enough up the bridge of the foot to enable the fin to stay on when in surf etc. and to ensure that the stress goes onto the ankle and not the footbridge. That way you can wear thick socks in winter and still retain the fin at depth and you can kick all day.

4) Stiffness - I've explained how these kind of blades differ from the constant arc blades, but not how stiff they are. Essentially these are about the same stiffness as the Mtechnic Hards that I have. They are notcieably stiffer than the Sporasub Radicals and when they don't have rails are very unstable under load. The rails stiffen them a tad more make them rock steady.

OK - so not eveyone can be bothered doing this to a pair of fins, and I know that one day there will be an even better pair of fins on the market - but for now, I am finally happy with my fins ! They are mega tough and efficent :D

So, to summarise - after a long and expensive pilgrammage, I have finally stuck with two pairs of fins that work in different ways for the two disciplines of breathold diving.

So, who disagrees then? :D

Ben
 
No worries here, Ben. Nice job.

If you ever get the opportunity to strap on a pair of Matrix blades, do so and get set for a real treat. It sounds like you'd really understand and appreciate the 30 flex.
 
BTW Sven, my condolences on having massive feet.

Freakin' footpocket sizes are so illogical! The engineers seem to think that feet grow in volume more than length, which is plainly untrue! So if you could get a footpocket that was long enough, you would need 14mm thick socks to fit it properly. I have a similar problem in that I fit 40-42, despite having 45 length feet, so my toes stick out 2cm beyond the footpocket.
 
Matrix fins - look like waterway blades.

I know they have very good blade characteristsics, but they still don't have that elusive bend in the blade to fit the footpockets - from what I can gather, some of the specialfins ones do have a bend, but are still fibreplastic....

I'm a big fan of the footpocket bend.....

:p
 
sounds like I need to take those old attacks out of my closet and try that...I never liked them tooo much but they are just gathering dust so why not? How did you make the rail?
 
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