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Herbert Nitsch 214m News from Greece
- Thread starterMIG
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Hey Stavros, if it is violence they want why don't we start a new event NLT boxing. Two people do a tandem dive to a nominated depth and the have to fight for the liftbag. The person who survives wins.
Seriously though, I think we all need to get back to the real reasons we dive. For me it is a challenge and a way to know my body and the Ocean better, but ultimately all I want to do have some fun.
Seriously though, I think we all need to get back to the real reasons we dive. For me it is a challenge and a way to know my body and the Ocean better, but ultimately all I want to do have some fun.
A couple of years ago, Herbert himself said that the way to get media for competitions was to promote the BO's and sambas, and give bonus points for the most spectacular blackout or samba. Change the rules in dynamic, your distance is how far you get (no surface protocol, and blackouts are allowed), just keep swimming until you blackout, and the let your momentum give you a few extra meters before they bring you back to life.
In Vancouver, we had the idea for a world championship in 'horizontal constant weight', with or without fins. Like Monaco, it is head-to-head, elimination tournament, in modified dynamic apnea. Two athletes, simultaneous start time, side by side. Whoever goes farthest AND MAKES IT BACK TO THE WALL wins (the pool used would be the kitsilano 137.5m outdoor pool--no one can make it all the way there and back (275m)). So, for example you can swim 100m, then turn around in midwater, and make it back to the wall (=200m total). The wall represents the surface.
One strategy is to start with static apnea, and see how far the other person goes, then go 1m farther and turn around and come back. Another is to go generally very slowly (bifins), so your opponent turns first, and you go 1m farther, turn and come back. If you don't make it back to the wall, DQ. Another strategy is to do the game 'chicken', where you deliberately go very far, trying to push your opponent to go too far, and make him BO on the return trip, while you come up way early of the wall.
In Vancouver, we had the idea for a world championship in 'horizontal constant weight', with or without fins. Like Monaco, it is head-to-head, elimination tournament, in modified dynamic apnea. Two athletes, simultaneous start time, side by side. Whoever goes farthest AND MAKES IT BACK TO THE WALL wins (the pool used would be the kitsilano 137.5m outdoor pool--no one can make it all the way there and back (275m)). So, for example you can swim 100m, then turn around in midwater, and make it back to the wall (=200m total). The wall represents the surface.
One strategy is to start with static apnea, and see how far the other person goes, then go 1m farther and turn around and come back. Another is to go generally very slowly (bifins), so your opponent turns first, and you go 1m farther, turn and come back. If you don't make it back to the wall, DQ. Another strategy is to do the game 'chicken', where you deliberately go very far, trying to push your opponent to go too far, and make him BO on the return trip, while you come up way early of the wall.
I have a feeling that the record attempts are undermining AIDAs own world championships. It is more important for top freedivers to posesss the world record than to be the world champion. This is sad in my point of wiew.
Where would athletics be if they did it this way? Imagine for example Asafa Powel winning the having Tyson Gay on his home court clocking some five or six sprints to get a recognised world record just to skip the world championships and still claim on a personal web site to be the world champion sprinter.
What I would like to see is a real showdown with the top athletes in a world Championship. For example Stig with his newly set dynamic record against a hungry Tom, and others wanting to be the champion.
I will not be surprised if we soon will see a record attempt from Tom to regain the dynamic record. In my opinion a world champion is sprung from a championship, not a series of record attempts. The AIDA top ten list is to me as interesting as the actual world records. The records are, however, spectacular (AND INTERESTING) but can bee limited to AIDA competitions.
A champion is a champion, a world record holder is something else. There needs to be more prestigue to be the champion.
This is why i like Wolles suggestion.
Where would athletics be if they did it this way? Imagine for example Asafa Powel winning the having Tyson Gay on his home court clocking some five or six sprints to get a recognised world record just to skip the world championships and still claim on a personal web site to be the world champion sprinter.
What I would like to see is a real showdown with the top athletes in a world Championship. For example Stig with his newly set dynamic record against a hungry Tom, and others wanting to be the champion.
I will not be surprised if we soon will see a record attempt from Tom to regain the dynamic record. In my opinion a world champion is sprung from a championship, not a series of record attempts. The AIDA top ten list is to me as interesting as the actual world records. The records are, however, spectacular (AND INTERESTING) but can bee limited to AIDA competitions.
A champion is a champion, a world record holder is something else. There needs to be more prestigue to be the champion.
This is why i like Wolles suggestion.
Eric, it's a funny idea! Too bad there aren't many 137,5 meter pools around. But the freediver vs. freediver is for sure the way to go to get more media interested and make the sport more interesting.
Nothing more boring as static... but everybody remembers the big blue and two certain persons jumping in the pool! That was interesting! Just holding a weight, sitting on the bottom, looking at each other, the one surfacing the first has lost... Great stuff! SanSan, can you plan this on the party night in Maribor?
Nothing more boring as static... but everybody remembers the big blue and two certain persons jumping in the pool! That was interesting! Just holding a weight, sitting on the bottom, looking at each other, the one surfacing the first has lost... Great stuff! SanSan, can you plan this on the party night in Maribor?
Actually it's quite funny... I just re-read my April fools joke I made International Freediving Federation - Welcome to the IFF!
And even if it was only meant to give Bill a heart attack and a full mailbox, I think some of the points I came up with there are pretty interesting!
And yes, it's time for a new thread! It's getting way off-topic...
And even if it was only meant to give Bill a heart attack and a full mailbox, I think some of the points I came up with there are pretty interesting!
And yes, it's time for a new thread! It's getting way off-topic...
I had a lunch with Trevor Hutton yesterday, and he said something that struck a chord with me, and is in fact relevant to this discussion.
When he started freediving, he went to the sea and found peace and quiet.
Freediving was a small activity, practised by a small group of people who were doing it for pure reasons. Because in the ocean, and in their freediving, they found peace, quiet and solitude.
Do we really want freediving to become a mainstream sport with thousands of 'athletes' clammering onto boats and descent lines every weekend, where Dahab, Sharm, Spetses, and all these places start to resemble Disney World during summer vacation? The more I think about it, and speaking as a media person myself, the more I'm not sure that I'm unhappy if the media forget we exist. ??????
Kind Regards
Jeff
When he started freediving, he went to the sea and found peace and quiet.
Freediving was a small activity, practised by a small group of people who were doing it for pure reasons. Because in the ocean, and in their freediving, they found peace, quiet and solitude.
Do we really want freediving to become a mainstream sport with thousands of 'athletes' clammering onto boats and descent lines every weekend, where Dahab, Sharm, Spetses, and all these places start to resemble Disney World during summer vacation? The more I think about it, and speaking as a media person myself, the more I'm not sure that I'm unhappy if the media forget we exist. ??????
Kind Regards
Jeff
Disney land???? Spetses is 17 miles round. It has 3680 population. There is very little foreign tourism and any record attempt is made up of maybe 10 friends and a few spectator boats. And at the depth that the dives are going to now... its at least a mile out at sea!
The more people become interested in the purity of the sport the more people will start to care for the environment they live in.
Oceans and seas are massive places taking up 70% of the planet's surface. I still think that solitude is available if that's what you really want. If you want to stay special and different in the freediving space create a thread on deeperblue and don't tell anyone about it.
The more people become interested in the purity of the sport the more people will start to care for the environment they live in.
Oceans and seas are massive places taking up 70% of the planet's surface. I still think that solitude is available if that's what you really want. If you want to stay special and different in the freediving space create a thread on deeperblue and don't tell anyone about it.
I think it's an illusion to ask of freediving to remain forever isolated from the outside world of sports. It all begun with people going 'round saying 'How long can you hold your breath?' and then at some point to settle penile arguments mutual rules emerged. Freediving can't stay virgin forever.
I'm sure there are a lot of skiers out there that only wants to seek out the mountain quiet with the fresh powder of frozen water crystals lying by the billions beneath them. And then there are those who are crazy for the comps. What ever, let humans compete, it's Olympic.
My point is that there should be plenty of room for everyone to party. It's a big planet.
I'm sure there are a lot of skiers out there that only wants to seek out the mountain quiet with the fresh powder of frozen water crystals lying by the billions beneath them. And then there are those who are crazy for the comps. What ever, let humans compete, it's Olympic.
My point is that there should be plenty of room for everyone to party. It's a big planet.
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Disney Land was just a figure of speech Alki. My point is simply ..do we really need freediving to become embraced by the media to become a popular sport? It's does'nt depend on massive budgets and sponsorships ( like Formula One) to keep running. It's a relatively cheap sport, and the low numbers of athletes taking part mean it's really easy and quite nice in fact to follow whats going on around the world.
I think of 2 examples. Rock Climbing was also quiet once, now, you can hardly get onto a good sports route, you wait behind a que of climbers, every piece of nice looking rock is covered in stainless steel bolts, and trash lies under most crags. Spearfishing was quiet once. Now, most inshore reefs have been culled of ALL the local reef fish, which make a reef their home. These examples may be extreme, but all I'm saying is that small, quiet and intimate is not all bad. Except for commercial people who are looking to make money from freediving.
Jeff
I think of 2 examples. Rock Climbing was also quiet once, now, you can hardly get onto a good sports route, you wait behind a que of climbers, every piece of nice looking rock is covered in stainless steel bolts, and trash lies under most crags. Spearfishing was quiet once. Now, most inshore reefs have been culled of ALL the local reef fish, which make a reef their home. These examples may be extreme, but all I'm saying is that small, quiet and intimate is not all bad.
Except for commercial people who are looking to make money from freediving.Jeff
Jeff
I understand your point. Freediving is a relatively small club and I find the intimacy of a small club very appealing too.
The point about the culling and the trash is worrying but I also know from first hand experience that awareness of trashing our environment works. Even if its just understanding that throwing crap in the sea is a dirty dangerous action, rather than ignorantly thinking that its swallowed up by the blue and disappears, is enough to start a whole chain of thoughts.
My humble opinion is that snorkeling, freediving, scuba gets one in touch with the marine world. If its sacrificing our elitist intimacy to further this cause, then so be it.
A
I understand your point. Freediving is a relatively small club and I find the intimacy of a small club very appealing too.
The point about the culling and the trash is worrying but I also know from first hand experience that awareness of trashing our environment works. Even if its just understanding that throwing crap in the sea is a dirty dangerous action, rather than ignorantly thinking that its swallowed up by the blue and disappears, is enough to start a whole chain of thoughts.
My humble opinion is that snorkeling, freediving, scuba gets one in touch with the marine world. If its sacrificing our elitist intimacy to further this cause, then so be it.
A
If anybody wants to win a nice free Herbert Team T-Shirt.. Enter the contest at my site Win Herbert's Team T-Shirt | Shark Freediving
Herbert will pick the winner himself! Just leave a comment with the answer and you may win the prize.
Herbert will pick the winner himself! Just leave a comment with the answer and you may win the prize.
Thank you everybody for your appreciation.
I also want to thank once more Alki and the whole team to make this fantastic event possible!
Sorry for taking such a long time to react, but even though some think it was not well covered by the media, I was – and still am very busy trying to answer to media requests.
First I was very happy to see some nice supporting posts. Just when I found the time to react to these posts and give some details of the attempts, people where questioning, if No-limit should be excluded from Aida. At this point I thought these people might as well discuss this without me.
Now let me try to clear some tings up, why we had that “show” dive:
1)Record attempts are usually planned during a week’s period, to avoid bad weather, technical and health problems. (I’m sorry for being so basic, but some people don’t even know this simple fact and think this has to do with privileges).
2)I have done my last two NLT records only with the crew (two freedivers) and judges, having no spectators or media and consequently no budget at all and marginal safety. This way there was a video published a few months later and one sentence of info on the DB forum. We also wanted to establish a much higher safety standard then ever before, including safe training. This was very expensive and time consuming and only possible with sponsor and media support.
3)Now when you try to get media, and tell them you are doing a week of record attempts (since it also might be more then one discipline), the first question you get is: “Which day is THE record?” If you are not specific, they will most likely not even show up, or come on the 1st day and never again, because they saw a boring training dive.
4)Now Alki was 100% right to tell the public ONE day where it will happen, (not even mentioning other disciplines).
5)Due to the safety setup and the immense speed of the dive, we soon realized that “live” footage with cables, was impossible.
6)Using training footage to show a WR seemed worse then showing a “show” dive with real WR footage.
7)We agreed on the 16th of June 2007, more then halve a year before. Very soon, I realized this is much too big of a risk (see #1). So we agreed to make this show for the media.
8)I personally don’t mind to show the dangers of our sport like BO, but I assume some freedivers would not like to have life coverage of a severe freediving incident.
9)I wanted to make a deep dive for the media “show”, but my team felt that it was to dangerous, considering the safety of the system and even more the stressed team. (The sled had to be fixed and welded every day, because the immense weights and the powerful electric counterweight broke essential parts on a daily basis. This was not really so dangerous, because the parts broke when hitting the bottom or when going up, just making the next dive impossible.
10)I felt very bad to make that “show” but it seemed the best solution, also considering my eardrums were severely bend due to the technical problems during the photo session the day before.
11)We thought about telling the freediving community, but how would you stop a possible leakage to the media?
I also want to thank once more Alki and the whole team to make this fantastic event possible!
Sorry for taking such a long time to react, but even though some think it was not well covered by the media, I was – and still am very busy trying to answer to media requests.
First I was very happy to see some nice supporting posts. Just when I found the time to react to these posts and give some details of the attempts, people where questioning, if No-limit should be excluded from Aida. At this point I thought these people might as well discuss this without me.
Now let me try to clear some tings up, why we had that “show” dive:
1)Record attempts are usually planned during a week’s period, to avoid bad weather, technical and health problems. (I’m sorry for being so basic, but some people don’t even know this simple fact and think this has to do with privileges).
2)I have done my last two NLT records only with the crew (two freedivers) and judges, having no spectators or media and consequently no budget at all and marginal safety. This way there was a video published a few months later and one sentence of info on the DB forum. We also wanted to establish a much higher safety standard then ever before, including safe training. This was very expensive and time consuming and only possible with sponsor and media support.
3)Now when you try to get media, and tell them you are doing a week of record attempts (since it also might be more then one discipline), the first question you get is: “Which day is THE record?” If you are not specific, they will most likely not even show up, or come on the 1st day and never again, because they saw a boring training dive.
4)Now Alki was 100% right to tell the public ONE day where it will happen, (not even mentioning other disciplines).
5)Due to the safety setup and the immense speed of the dive, we soon realized that “live” footage with cables, was impossible.
6)Using training footage to show a WR seemed worse then showing a “show” dive with real WR footage.
7)We agreed on the 16th of June 2007, more then halve a year before. Very soon, I realized this is much too big of a risk (see #1). So we agreed to make this show for the media.
8)I personally don’t mind to show the dangers of our sport like BO, but I assume some freedivers would not like to have life coverage of a severe freediving incident.
9)I wanted to make a deep dive for the media “show”, but my team felt that it was to dangerous, considering the safety of the system and even more the stressed team. (The sled had to be fixed and welded every day, because the immense weights and the powerful electric counterweight broke essential parts on a daily basis. This was not really so dangerous, because the parts broke when hitting the bottom or when going up, just making the next dive impossible.
10)I felt very bad to make that “show” but it seemed the best solution, also considering my eardrums were severely bend due to the technical problems during the photo session the day before.
11)We thought about telling the freediving community, but how would you stop a possible leakage to the media?
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Thank you very much Herbert for this post.
I think that if we got this kind of response to our doubts instead of "nothing happened" or "kiss my hairy ass" ones, if we were straight away honestly informed about all the reasons behind that "show dive" then everyone would show much more understanding and we wouldn't argue for so long.
Once again my greatest congratulations for you and the whole team.
Cheers - Piotr
I think that if we got this kind of response to our doubts instead of "nothing happened" or "kiss my hairy ass" ones, if we were straight away honestly informed about all the reasons behind that "show dive" then everyone would show much more understanding and we wouldn't argue for so long.
Once again my greatest congratulations for you and the whole team.
Cheers - Piotr
I don't think anyone's problem was with Herbert - we're all just amazed and impressed!
It was more with the attitude of some other people involved - particularly the sneaky way posts were made under false names.... god that drives me mad! If you've got something to say, put your name to it!
I even had to shut down Deepest Bear's account because it was "me" under two names..............
It was more with the attitude of some other people involved - particularly the sneaky way posts were made under false names.... god that drives me mad! If you've got something to say, put your name to it!
I even had to shut down Deepest Bear's account because it was "me" under two names..............
Herbert,
thank you for your post!
It is somehow sad, that your impressive record has brought so much controversy due to wrong information.
I agree with Sam, that the criticism is not going against Herbert but against the whole setup.
Regarding:
quote
11)We thought about telling the freediving community, but how would you stop a possible leakage to the media?
quote end
I am astonished that the whole thing was not thought to the end: Was the idea to also change the date in AIDA record list??? Or just to postpone the "leakage"?
This shows that there are much more important values, than depths, times and dates.
Or as grandma would say: Lies have short legs!
Philipp
thank you for your post!
It is somehow sad, that your impressive record has brought so much controversy due to wrong information.
I agree with Sam, that the criticism is not going against Herbert but against the whole setup.
Regarding:
quote
11)We thought about telling the freediving community, but how would you stop a possible leakage to the media?
quote end
I am astonished that the whole thing was not thought to the end: Was the idea to also change the date in AIDA record list??? Or just to postpone the "leakage"?
This shows that there are much more important values, than depths, times and dates.
Or as grandma would say: Lies have short legs!
Philipp