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Herbert Nitsch 214m News from Greece
- Thread starterMIG
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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Everybody was fooled, because everybody was told they were watching THE DIVE LIVE !
Bill, Alki - please stop acting like nothing have happened.
Big part of the freediving community was left with a bad taste in their mouth after that.
Nobody is questioning Herbert's great achievement and the huge effort of the whole team - for that I send my greatest congratulations - but I feel we have right to complain about the way we were informed about what was really going on there.
Piotr
Bill, Alki - please stop acting like nothing have happened.
Big part of the freediving community was left with a bad taste in their mouth after that.
Nobody is questioning Herbert's great achievement and the huge effort of the whole team - for that I send my greatest congratulations - but I feel we have right to complain about the way we were informed about what was really going on there.
Piotr
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I don't see any problem with this delay of the announcement. If our sport could gain media with postpone the result from a record attempt, please do so. We need all publicity we can get. What I do have problem with is that there are people here that don't see the good thing with separate record attempts. This is how we get media in to our sport and with media we find sponsors. If we could have all AIDA competitions like the Monaco Static Comp, than maybe we could start talk about this again. But until then we need the record attempts more than ever.
Big thanks to Alki and the whole team in Spetses! Please do this again soon!!
Greg
Big thanks to Alki and the whole team in Spetses! Please do this again soon!!
Greg
Calm down everybody - it was just a "time delay". You saw what you saw, but it did not happen when you saw it. You just thought you saw it happening when you saw it. It happened before you saw it happening. You were not fooled, you where just not informed of what you where seeing. You saw something else happening. What you saw was the real thing. Just because Herbert was hanging on 30 meters holding his breath when you thought he was going down to 214 live, does not mean you did not see what you saw, because you saw what you saw, it just did not happen when you saw it. You see? And all this does not matter because it has happened before and therefore its OK. And as long as we all think it has happened, it has happened, but not when it happened. It happened before we thought it happened.
Sebastian
PS By the way. The Monaco static event did realy happen, and Tom can hold his breath 9.08, but not really when it happens. You see its media that decides when it happens, and as long as a majority thinks it happened when it hapened. It has really happened.
Sebastian
PS By the way. The Monaco static event did realy happen, and Tom can hold his breath 9.08, but not really when it happens. You see its media that decides when it happens, and as long as a majority thinks it happened when it hapened. It has really happened.
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Sorry I have to disagree. We _were_ lied to. We were told
that he did 185 when he had actually done the record already,
and we were told that he had hurt his eardrum the next day but
that he would go for the record anyway (this one sounded a bit
strange). Besides, the whole thing could be at least excused if
whoever organized the "delayed announcement" had come out
spontaneously, instead of admitting it only when caught in
contraddiction.
The saddest thing is that this will leave a trace of mistrust
that might last long... and the feeling that AIDA cares more
about the media than about freedivers.
cheers
A
that he did 185 when he had actually done the record already,
and we were told that he had hurt his eardrum the next day but
that he would go for the record anyway (this one sounded a bit
strange). Besides, the whole thing could be at least excused if
whoever organized the "delayed announcement" had come out
spontaneously, instead of admitting it only when caught in
contraddiction.
The saddest thing is that this will leave a trace of mistrust
that might last long... and the feeling that AIDA cares more
about the media than about freedivers.
cheers
A
rxcnc2, you didn't get it.
This shows that AIDA, at least, trying to get our sport out there. It's not easy to fight against 200 different sports for 20 min of TV time. Alki is the one to thanks, he understands what needs to be done and then he does it.
How many here know how complicated and difficult it is to organize record attempts beyond 200 meter - how many here have even been even close to announce a world record attempt? Please wake up, this 2007 and there is a BIG war out there just to get into media and find sponsors. We need THIS kind of actions and we need it more than ever. We find sports As Live in media everyday, everywhere in many different sports.
To Alki: Please don't listen to this whining people, they have no idea what it takes to put all this together. You did the right thing, BRAVO!
To AIDA: Excellent work!
To Herbert: Impressive dive and thanks for a very nice show!
Greg
This shows that AIDA, at least, trying to get our sport out there. It's not easy to fight against 200 different sports for 20 min of TV time. Alki is the one to thanks, he understands what needs to be done and then he does it.
How many here know how complicated and difficult it is to organize record attempts beyond 200 meter - how many here have even been even close to announce a world record attempt? Please wake up, this 2007 and there is a BIG war out there just to get into media and find sponsors. We need THIS kind of actions and we need it more than ever. We find sports As Live in media everyday, everywhere in many different sports.
To Alki: Please don't listen to this whining people, they have no idea what it takes to put all this together. You did the right thing, BRAVO!
To AIDA: Excellent work!
To Herbert: Impressive dive and thanks for a very nice show!
Greg
When I swam the Channel Backstroke, there was no media waiting for me on the french coast. But when I returned to Folkestone on the boat, the BBC wanted the story (I was the Worlds first to swim the channel backstroke). They 'made' me get in the water at Folkestone and swim ashore and pretend it was France and do a fake interview. Only the purists would have noticed I had no grease on, etc, etc. They pretended it was for real. It was, even if it were a few hours late. The story made the news, and that was the idea for them.
To prevent getting bundled in with this:
- Both my WR dives were announced immediately after the attempt.
- For the first dive I told my safety divers (6 total) that it would be a training dive. Immediately afterwards I told them that it was in fact a WR. No media or public was deceived.
- For the second dive to 82m I invited every member of public or press who wanted to come. I announced and performed 82.
- In the video we had to use 2 pick-up shots, as I couldn't afford more than the official cameras. The footage from the surface and bottom plate is from the attempt.
William
www.verticalblue.net
- Both my WR dives were announced immediately after the attempt.
- For the first dive I told my safety divers (6 total) that it would be a training dive. Immediately afterwards I told them that it was in fact a WR. No media or public was deceived.
- For the second dive to 82m I invited every member of public or press who wanted to come. I announced and performed 82.
- In the video we had to use 2 pick-up shots, as I couldn't afford more than the official cameras. The footage from the surface and bottom plate is from the attempt.
William
www.verticalblue.net
gee people, we do live in 2007 and considering all the different sorts of things that happen in the world, you are getting all wound up about a minor thing like the team delaying the anouncement. and comparing it to the americans not making it to the moon!!! does anyone truly think that herbert did not do 214?? cos that, and only that, would be cheating.
and sebastian, do take a chill pill. you just love to b...ch about aida and bill. yes yes..they are crap. but do move on.
everyone will always have a 10000 different ideas about this sport, just like ppl have a 1000 different ideas about everything.
look at what has been done, and not how they decided to tell us about it.
drea
and sebastian, do take a chill pill. you just love to b...ch about aida and bill. yes yes..they are crap. but do move on.
everyone will always have a 10000 different ideas about this sport, just like ppl have a 1000 different ideas about everything.
look at what has been done, and not how they decided to tell us about it.
drea
Hi All
Wow. I read this a few hours ago for the first time, and did not react immediately as i just wanted to digest what was said. I did feel dissaponted at first, as I had passed on a live event to the listeners, but in retrospect, the dive was done, the dive was awesome, and thursday or saturday, it still had everyone gripped.
My overriding emotion right now is to feel a bit bad for Herbert that this occured, but hopefully it will not taint the fact that this is still a human going to 214 meters, and whatever day of the week, it was a bloody good show.
And Sebastian, your last post was almost as classic!!!rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
Wow. I read this a few hours ago for the first time, and did not react immediately as i just wanted to digest what was said. I did feel dissaponted at first, as I had passed on a live event to the listeners, but in retrospect, the dive was done, the dive was awesome, and thursday or saturday, it still had everyone gripped.
My overriding emotion right now is to feel a bit bad for Herbert that this occured, but hopefully it will not taint the fact that this is still a human going to 214 meters, and whatever day of the week, it was a bloody good show.
And Sebastian, your last post was almost as classic!!!rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
Hmmm...some people not getting the point of this I think... I do not feel it is a problem that the organisers mislead people (and the media had they been there) ... they are in this for the press and they are going to use Herbert's dive in whatever way they think is best to promote their best interests...that is to be expected...
What I do think is wrong is for AIDA to stand there on the 16th and announce to the world (thank god that no media showed any real interest) that what they had just witnessed was a WR dive...when they knew it was not.
Had there been some REAL media covering the event live what do you think their responce would have been had they found out a couple of days later (and they would have) that what they televised to their millions of viewers was in fact a lie... what would that do for AIDA's image as a serious sports governing body...furthermore in the event that the media requests that a "show" dive be set up for them to film do you think AIDA should be officially involved in such a thing ratifying it as a WR on the day?...
food for thought...
Cheers Stavros
ps1. it is so much easier for the organisers to film the footage - edit it and feed it to the media...they like it better that way anyway and we've been doing it for quite some time...no judges or AIDA needed...(no-one knows who and what we are anyway)...and it would have saved us all this hastle
ps2. I was there on saturday 16th and I was lied to being told I was witnessing a 214m WR dive... whatever your opinion might be it will not change that FACT.
What I do think is wrong is for AIDA to stand there on the 16th and announce to the world (thank god that no media showed any real interest) that what they had just witnessed was a WR dive...when they knew it was not.
Had there been some REAL media covering the event live what do you think their responce would have been had they found out a couple of days later (and they would have) that what they televised to their millions of viewers was in fact a lie... what would that do for AIDA's image as a serious sports governing body...furthermore in the event that the media requests that a "show" dive be set up for them to film do you think AIDA should be officially involved in such a thing ratifying it as a WR on the day?...
food for thought...
Cheers Stavros
ps1. it is so much easier for the organisers to film the footage - edit it and feed it to the media...they like it better that way anyway and we've been doing it for quite some time...no judges or AIDA needed...(no-one knows who and what we are anyway)...and it would have saved us all this hastle
ps2. I was there on saturday 16th and I was lied to being told I was witnessing a 214m WR dive... whatever your opinion might be it will not change that FACT.
Its very black and white right now -and those who are grey are pushed to one or the other side.
I might be ironic at times, and sarcastic, and I might insinuate, and be provocative just to see what arguments for what kind of opinions are out there. My goals rate from pure self entertainment to actually wanting to see evolvement of the Aida organization. And I might complain more than I apprais - but make no misstake - I am AIDAs best friend. And in many things I respect Bill for his visions (since I share many) and for his energy. But some of his methods I disagree with. But we all have role to play, we all make up the entity of freedivers - and its sad to see us divided.
Some say others are naive, and have no realistic or creative approach to the modern media landscape and the game of sponsores and catching attention e t c
Others claim they have been treated with disrespect and have been lied to right in the face.
But lets not forget that we here on DB are not the audience (I wonder why Alki even bothers to seek our approval) the main audience is made up of 10´s of thousands non freedivers (people who are mostly not bothered about a time delay).
This issue is not about if Herbert (and his team and brave sponsor) deserves attention or not. We all agree there.
We might also agree that most media attention is good for the (I was going to say sport, but change my mind) for the activities we all share the same passion for. Even bad news is also news.
But this is more than freediving or records - its about ground values, about moral. Its about reality and even though the entertainment media might not honour reality and truth - there are still some people who likes the real thing. It might not be as spectacular - its not the quick fix - but it is IRL - it is REALITY - and it is a beautiful thing - and it will set you free.
Sebastian
PS And it is also about respecting the meaning of words. Language is a lovely tool and every word carries a meaning that binds us together.
I might be ironic at times, and sarcastic, and I might insinuate, and be provocative just to see what arguments for what kind of opinions are out there. My goals rate from pure self entertainment to actually wanting to see evolvement of the Aida organization. And I might complain more than I apprais - but make no misstake - I am AIDAs best friend. And in many things I respect Bill for his visions (since I share many) and for his energy. But some of his methods I disagree with. But we all have role to play, we all make up the entity of freedivers - and its sad to see us divided.
Some say others are naive, and have no realistic or creative approach to the modern media landscape and the game of sponsores and catching attention e t c
Others claim they have been treated with disrespect and have been lied to right in the face.
But lets not forget that we here on DB are not the audience (I wonder why Alki even bothers to seek our approval) the main audience is made up of 10´s of thousands non freedivers (people who are mostly not bothered about a time delay).
This issue is not about if Herbert (and his team and brave sponsor) deserves attention or not. We all agree there.
We might also agree that most media attention is good for the (I was going to say sport, but change my mind) for the activities we all share the same passion for. Even bad news is also news.
But this is more than freediving or records - its about ground values, about moral. Its about reality and even though the entertainment media might not honour reality and truth - there are still some people who likes the real thing. It might not be as spectacular - its not the quick fix - but it is IRL - it is REALITY - and it is a beautiful thing - and it will set you free.
Sebastian
PS And it is also about respecting the meaning of words. Language is a lovely tool and every word carries a meaning that binds us together.
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Dear Sebastian
I though it it important to dispel some theories. FYI I have been involved with competitive freediving well before AIDA even existed. So long that the fact does not fill me with joy at all!
Furthermore I personally enjoy diving, scuba or free. I find both very pleasurable.
As you seem so interested in commenting on my motives for wanting to participate in this universe, please understand that since 1995, the marine conservation group BIOS which I started in Greece, has used freediving as as way to make marine conservation cool.
Man is made up mostly of water and it is this symbiosis that I try and capture in my films and water based events.
So with all respect Sebastian, after having financed and organised WR attempts for Herbert, Martin, Kike and others... oh and sponsored the Cyprus World Championship in 2004, I feel my place in this arena is justified. I find your snide little comments offensive.
So in short Sebastian... kiss my well excerised hairy Greek ass.
A
I though it it important to dispel some theories. FYI I have been involved with competitive freediving well before AIDA even existed. So long that the fact does not fill me with joy at all!
Furthermore I personally enjoy diving, scuba or free. I find both very pleasurable.
As you seem so interested in commenting on my motives for wanting to participate in this universe, please understand that since 1995, the marine conservation group BIOS which I started in Greece, has used freediving as as way to make marine conservation cool.
Man is made up mostly of water and it is this symbiosis that I try and capture in my films and water based events.
So with all respect Sebastian, after having financed and organised WR attempts for Herbert, Martin, Kike and others... oh and sponsored the Cyprus World Championship in 2004, I feel my place in this arena is justified. I find your snide little comments offensive.
So in short Sebastian... kiss my well excerised hairy Greek ass.
A
Ah, the famous Mediterrenean imperiousness in full action. Reminds me of a bloke I encountered in Hurghada in December...
I think this thread have strayed far off the lines of reason for all parties, but if not for anything else, it displays that the apnea community feels somewhat disrespected, if only on a miniscule level. Ah well. You can't please some people, so probably shouldn't die trying.
Still, all this boohah would be an example of just how many target groups it would be good to try to service when organizing an event like this. Media and sponsors won't be enough in the long run, if organizers looses the respect of the athletes. Even though they may act like petty children at times. Everything channels, shit happens, welcome to the game.
(On a side note: Master Alki, you should try to keep your details a little more correct, then maybe people would shut up in the future; Technically, the '04 AWESOME BIOS competition in Cyprus was not the official world championship. Also AIDA was formed in '94, so you haven't actually been around since before AIDA. And yada yada, whatever, nobody is perfect...)
I think this thread have strayed far off the lines of reason for all parties, but if not for anything else, it displays that the apnea community feels somewhat disrespected, if only on a miniscule level. Ah well. You can't please some people, so probably shouldn't die trying.
Still, all this boohah would be an example of just how many target groups it would be good to try to service when organizing an event like this. Media and sponsors won't be enough in the long run, if organizers looses the respect of the athletes. Even though they may act like petty children at times. Everything channels, shit happens, welcome to the game.
(On a side note: Master Alki, you should try to keep your details a little more correct, then maybe people would shut up in the future; Technically, the '04 AWESOME BIOS competition in Cyprus was not the official world championship. Also AIDA was formed in '94, so you haven't actually been around since before AIDA. And yada yada, whatever, nobody is perfect...)
Wow, thread drifted way off tilt. My personal view is that it is an amazing feat. It even appeared in the Chilean press, and hey, where the hell is Chile?
I do not feel tricked or anything, I'm sure what was done was for OK reasons. My congrats again to team. Peace.
I do not feel tricked or anything, I'm sure what was done was for OK reasons. My congrats again to team. Peace.
After a good night of sleep and some thinking I still believe that the performance was amazing stuff and the way things were handled were thought over, and given the circumstances, the best solution to get the highest marketing value.
On the other hand, I also understand the commotion of feeling tricked, especially the real freedivers who traveled especially to the island to watch the real deal and not some show dive.
On the other hand, I also understand the commotion of feeling tricked, especially the real freedivers who traveled especially to the island to watch the real deal and not some show dive.
I understand you feel questioned (Thats the price "people of action" have to pay), but I do not understand your respons. I mentioned you in ONE sentence: "(I wonder why Alki even bothers to seek our approval)"
Meaning your audience is not a couple of hundred deeperblue readers - you play in the big world - and your audience is the global audience.
Right? The comment above was a compliment, expressing a slight surprise about the fact that you respect the DB readers so much that you bother using your time to explain yourself in front of us. A sign of respect from me.
Sebastian
PS Alki, dont spend any "dear" or "respect" or "regards" on me when all you have for me is your hairy ass. Discussion is suppose to bring us together - not place ourselves in distant castles shooting arrows at each other.
PS So if any one wants to get back to "nice things" lets talk about how much mediatime Herbert/Alki has been able to attract. Does anyone have the overall picture. What exactly does an event like this mean in terms of branding?