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Herbert Nitsch 214m News from Greece

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 90 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Well here we are all the Judges have arrived and ropes are measured, we have SCUBA divers and cameramen at the ready. All systems have been checked and tested, cameras and housings have been tested.

Tuesday official schedule.
09:00 Official meeting between AIDA and the team.
10:30 Official test of the sled and Safety system with Judges.
13:00 Official top (Estimated) of No Limits World record… -185m

Go back and read that again if you missed a couple of important points. Camera have been tested… yep that’s right we have a full real time footage of a -156m dive using the new “CH”. OK you want to see it? You don’t, believe me. Alright so I will post it on YouTube tomorrow….

Just please DO NOT WATCH THIS VIDEO, IT IS NOT WORTH IT.

But here is the dive profile to go with it.
156.jpg


As you can see Herbert stops the sled at 30-32m to fill the HF.EqEx. IF you do not heed my warning then notice after the stop you can clearly see the Bottle ¼ full of air…..
You will have to read through and find the other interesting point…

:o
MIG
 
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Two lines going down to 200m are bound to get tangled...so no more lines down there than are absolutely necessary.
(the safety a live camera system offers is not a factor important enough to make the organiser disregard the very serious danger of getting the two lines crossing.)
Cheers Stavros
 
Am I reading this right??? 156M in 1:26? You've got to be kidding me. Go Herbert Go! 300M will not be as far away as some might have thought.

As far as I understand the 1:26 is the time to get to 156,6m - not the return trip... unfortunately there is no time axis on Markus's graph. This time is not so fast (only 1,82m/s average) - keep in mind that the plan was for 2,5m/s or more...(I just wish we had the full dive graph :headwith time on it)

If the time (1:26) is for the return trip then the speed is somewhere in the order of 3,6m/s which is amazingly fast but I doubt this is possible from some numbers I heard during the last couple of months (I wish it is the actual speed though - then loads of nice things will be happening:t)

We just have to wait for 3 more hours to find out

Cheers Stavros

Ps. GO Herbert GO
 
Why on earth would you have someone doing surface protocol when they are not on the surface? That would defeat the whole purpose - to dive as deep as possible and return to the surface on one breath of air.
No-Limits diving won't go away in a hurry. People like Herbert are going to continue to innovate, find new and safer systems, and continue to change the limits we place on the human organism.
Sure people have died in this event, but what use is a life if we are not willing to risk losing it in search of our dreams?

I'll have to agree with that. Maybe I'd be ok with something like come to the surface, flick an ok and immediately hit 10m on o2 - so a shorter SP for no limits.

But o2 decomression on ascent? So what when depth goes beyond 300 and even that is too risky? Move it to -20m? then -30m? And surely CW records will hit the kinds of depths soon where this would also be needed? Besides, because of the way that SWB works, allowing a diver to end the dive at -10m would give an enormous performance benefit hypoxia wise.

There is an absolute limit even in no limits. Sure we live now in a time that new world records are made almost monthly, but of course that will not last forever. There has to be a limit and then records will happen less frequently and eventually maybe not at all. But when that happens, the right solution is not to allow more relaxed rules to go deeper - then we just accept the situation. They don't allow 100m sprinters to go down hill just so new records would be made, much less stop at 90m. The most talented and dedicated athletes can train their entire career as hard as humanly possible - and never reach the world record. You know what? Tough luck, but that's just how it is. World records are not to be taken for granted, like we've used to. When the sport truly matures, it'll become less and less about records and more and more about who will succeed in an individual competition against others. There are still a lot of things to be explored in this event. Herbert show's the right idea by re-thiniking some of the most accepted and basic premises. You don't need to fill a balloon, you can go fast, you can do deco stop on ascent on apnea and you can lessen DCS and narcosis risks by exhaling some of you air while not going on FRC (in fact this part of it is pure genious even if it may be considered to be a little in the "gray area" - he is basically making an FRC dive, but with the o2 and equalisation reserves of a full lung dive - also saving the o2 rich air for ascent, where it is most critical). The accidents we've seen have been mostly equipment failures, exceptionally tragically bad luck, technical shortcomings...In fact I think Benjamin is the only case where something unexpected happened physiologically and even in his case he'd been makeing several deep dives on the same day?

No limits has always been a "logistic discipline", but in the future, this will be just amplified. You simply cannot just dip a weighed lift bag at the end of a 200m cable and expect to be safe. With luck, yes, but with bad luck...The counterweight was already a huge improvement and worked well for hundreds or even thousands of dives. Tragically, that has now been shown to have it's shortcomings as well. Now you have back ups and backups of backups. Maybe in the future a minisub will accompany, or even take the athelete down - like someone mentioned (yeah, sounds crazy now, but wait and see). It already comes down to resourcing a lot and in the future even more. Events will cost hundreds of thousands, even millions to organize because of the organisation needed.

From surface to surface, on one breath of air. That has to be the premise - otherwise it's all pointless. Not two breaths, not "almost to the surface" or "almost from the surface"...Wheather or not the current SP is perfect and serves it's purpose can be debated. But if divers cannot make it safely from surface to surface on one breath of air, then perhaps it's time to stop to think about if deeper dives are really the wise thing to do?

But back to topic, I think Herbert and the crew have got the right idea about this, I think he'll succeed even if it does make me a bit nervous that things are still being built and tested just days before the attempt. He's clearly aware of the most common reasons of failure and accidents and has countered many of these points. Sure his system is not perfect either - nothing is - but it is as good as the current knowledge allows - or at least significantly better. Good luck to him!

I'm sure there will be serious accidents in freediving, even fatal ones - it is a dangerous activity when taken to extremes. But hopefully we learn and improve every time.
 
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Should be all done and dusted by now, if there were no changes to the timetable. Hoping we soon hear that Herbert's safe and sound with a new record under his belt!
 
Just spoke to Fred Buyle on the phone (its funny I have to talk to a Belgian to get info about whats happening in Greece) - they are heading out to the dive site now, they will test the sled and will attempt a WR dive in about 2-3 hours.

So there is a change in the schedule

I will have more info in the evening and will let you know when I have it (if Mig doesn't beat me to it)

Cheers Stavros

PS. There are mild southern winds blowing at the moment with a good size front moving in a north eastern direction just off Spetses in the central Agean during the next couple of days. I am not sure where the dive site is but hopefully it will be a place protected by the winds.
 
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JOME: The counterweight was already a huge improvement and worked well for hundreds or even thousands of dives. Tragically, that has now been shown to have it's shortcomings as well. END

The shortcomings were there all the time - its not how many dives, but how many times an Anti ballast has been "asked" to save a freedivers life. As far as I know: twice an AB has been deployed, once it was not needed and the other time the freediver died.

Sebastian
Sweden

PS. Seems to be VW dives in Spetses
 
Sorry, but that has got to be the worst video I have ever seen. I realise you are dealing with the difficulties of depth and hydrodynamics but surely you could get a better angle than that. More light would help too.
 
What is it with you guys! The camera position is really bad. Maybe that is the best they could achieve in the circumstances but lets be honest here - it doesn't show much and certainly not the system. I am fully behind Herbert and team but let us just keep it honest. Don't mean to be negative just keeping it real.:) Go Herbert!!
 
What is Herbert doing throughout the dive? It looks as though he is moving around a lot or is it just the water flow over him and the equipment.

Now everyone can see the beauty of an F1/X1 OLED at depth! :) I wonder if Herbert actually uses it to check his depth with all the automation of his diving system.

Anyone?
 
Jome made some good points about the future of deep diving.

I can identify one of the main problems.

Previously, the main problem was the blackout at the end of the dive. However, after some trial and error (over several years), it became clear that having a blackout really wasn't that bad (no serious long term effects). So, people kept going deep, and in many competitions, as many as 30% of the competitors would have blackouts.

However, as the depths increase, suddenly new problems appear, such as:
- Extreme narcosis (possibly resulting in a blackout on the bottom)
- Decompression sickness

With the case of DCS, it is not like a blackout. It is not 'okay' to have a big DCS hit after every diving session. So, although some competitions have 30% of the competitors suffering blackouts, imagine a competition where 30% of the competitors suffered DCS with permanent neurological injury and paralysis. Just as some competitors have as many as 20 blackouts per year in training, imagine those same competitors have 20 big DCS hits each year. They would be vegetables not even half way through one year of training.

With blackouts, everyone knew that the blackout should be avoided, and new training methods and diving techniques allowed deeper and deeper depths to be achieved, without having a blackout. However, an 'error' in the experiment would not be fatal. The diver makes an error, has a blackout, no big deal.

With DCS, improvements can be made to reduce it, just like you can reduce the risk of blackouts. In my case after 9 cases of freediving DCS, I had enough data to change my diving style to permanently eliminate DCS for me. However, this was an extremely risky process, and I could have had permanent injury. My DCS hits were not life threatening, but Herbert had a life threatening DCS after spearfishing 35m-45m, for 16 dives -- total collapse and paralysis, airlift to the chamber, etc...

So, I would say that yes, it is possible to find a new style of diving which allows for extremely deep dives without DCS. However, not everyone would execute the style correctly, and the risk of failure is extreme.

Imagine a future competition. There is a well known but difficult technique that allows a diver to avoid DCS (example: special ascent speed profile, with two well timed apnea deco stops, plus a maximum limit on the amount of packing to reduce total N2 before the dive).

Most competitors know the method, but not all have it perfected. The competition takes place, and 60% of the competitors manage the method, and avoid DCS. The other 40% get DCS, and 15% are crippled for life.

What is that? That would be the 'extreme' sport of freediving. We constantly tell people that freediving is not that extreme, that sambas and blackouts are rare, and not life threatening. However, in a world where 15% of the competitors basically die from DCS, it WOULD be an insane extreme sport, worthy to be on the craziest documentaries.
 
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