• Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:

    • Join over 47,943+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
    • Participate in and browse from over 531,990+ posts.
    • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
    • Post your own photos or view from 7,455+ user submitted images.
    • All this and much more...

    You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

Herbert Nitsch 214m News from Greece

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 90 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Respect to herbert and his team. Good job. I am really happy that`s over now.

Yes, this nolimit-attempt was without accident. The ratio in the last 5 years is now better than 50%. - Not really??? Sorry, I have problems with my memories all times. But I remember all the good pr for our sport in the public media. I know what is coming first in mind about freediving every time... This is was we achieved with Nolimits.

Nolimit is not some kind of freediving for me. It is more tech-diving. Or is balloning a kind of climbing? Or sailing a kind of swimming?
Look the fotos and the videofotage from Herberts last dive. What can you see?

The question is not: "What's the ultimate depth for a human being?". The question is: "What's the ultimate depth for a human being with his own power?" . (the ultimate depht for a human without any limits is 225m(?) -rebreather).

I am agree with sebastian.
 
Last edited:
I don't agree with that at all. You don't need a seperate NLT org. What about all the experience already gathered within the AIDA circuits (including the negative ones)? I really think it'd be stupid to let go of that experience, and I just can't see the reasons why.
Well Chris if you read my post properly before hitting the reply button you might see reasons. NO EXPERIENCE WOULD BE LOST! NLT would grow stronger in a separate organization.

Seb, it's like you want AIDA to run away from the dangers of NLT.
Yes.

Somebody has to try to protect these people,
Yes. Do read my post. Somebody more experienced than the Aida board. The aida board were not chosen for their NLT expertize. They vote within themselves about things most of them are not knowledgeable on.

AIDA is still the best organization around to address these problems.
Aida is a number of individuals. Pick the best for a NLT commity.

Sebastian

PS Ask yourselves: what is the future vision for competetive freediving - how do we get there? Get the whole picture - see what NLT does with the image of freediving and with Aida.

Dangers of No limit
 
Last edited:
First of all, admiration and respect for the high level
of preparation and ability shown by Herbert and his team,
both in and out of the water.

About whether NL belongs to freediving and its future,
I am amazed to see that many of the people posting here,
even quite expert ones, seem to miss completely the point.
The point is that we all, those for and those agasint, were
glued to the internet for this event. A pro needs records
to continue being a pro, and records that will attract
media and sponsors. Media are notoriously dumb, because
viewers are dumb (on average). By the dumb I actually
mean not informed. They do not distinguish
so well between a CNF of -82m, or a CW of -111, or a
NL of -185 (incidentally, I myself do not distinguish
too well between a CNF of -80 and one of -81).
They want easy and clear concepts, they want hype.
This is what the two siblings in Lithuania understood
quite well. Even if they cheated in our eyes, even
if all freedivers will not consider their stunt even for
a second at the same level with Herbert's or Tom's,
for the average person reading the newspapers they
fall exactly in the same category.
"How long did the austrian guy take to go to 200m?"
"About 4 minutes"
"What? In Lithuania two people were under water for
15 minutes... not sure how deep they went but I
imagine they can go much deeper than that."

And by the way, let's not be hypocrite when we say that
CNF is freediving and NL is not: we all know that
behind a record dive there are sponsors, teams, doctors,
boats, safety divers, computers, nutritional experts,
gym and yoga, you name it. The extra tech part in NL is just
the tip of the iceberg.
I also like the word "free" in freediving, but then you
have to go to the beach and swim out with your mask and
fins all by yourself or with your buddy, and that's not
what we are talking about here.

So if you want to play it in the field of media and
sponsor-driven events, as record attempts necessarily
are, inevitably you will have to see more and more of NL.
Whether AIDA wants to be on top of it or not. And I am
afraid a few more accidents.

And yes Jorg, last year a guy died in static warm-up at a
comp in Brazil (someone can do the stats).
And Wolle, the deepest record in technical diving was actually
below 300m (the guy unfortunately was lost in a
subsequent unrelated dive and never found again).

Sorry for being so cynical, not usually my style.
cheers
 
  • Like
Reactions: CEngelbrecht
Sebastian say: Somebody more experienced than the Aida board and a NLT commity within Aida.

???

Next step will be an VWT commity within Aida and then a special CWT commity, CNF commity, FIM commity, DYN commity, DNF commity, STA commity.
Then we could add a special danger commity and last a special commity that controll all the commitys.

I would say No TANX to this.

Engelbrecht is right.
 
Last edited:
Sebastian say: Somebody more experienced than the Aida board and a NLT commity within Aida?
The athletes themselves, the former NLT athletes, hyperbarphysicians - its pretty easy to make a list of the 10 most experienced (good or bad experienced) NLT people in the world.
Pipin, his team, Umberto, Loics team, Murat, Carlos, Herbert, Kirk, one or two hyperbar physicians, the AIDA judges having judged many records (Bill has seen most of them), the filmers who have been at the events (Fred, Dan).... e t c

I am not the one to know this...

No one is talking about stoping NLT.
Some people are talking about making it more professional.
Aida board realized this last fall - and re-acted one step behind events.

For me there is a clear line between going down with weights using wet eq or EQEX equalisation extension tool AND the discplines we compete in.

NLT is more or less unregulated. NLT is the ULTIMATE FIGHTING the K1 - the normal freeidvers are the olympic boxers.

Sebastian

And who are you Kimc?
 
Last edited:
As an engineer I must say: Pretty impressive the record with all the technical features. Ironically the past accidents helped to make Herbert's dive safer.

However, there is no question, that there is still a big amount of uncertainty in these NL dives. It is somehow sad to think, that probably the only certainty about no limits is: There will be more accidents in the future.

Herbert, I am glad you made it safe! Don't push it too far in the future!

Philipp

PS To rxcnc2: The death in Brazil was not in a competition, it was in a freediving meeting. There is some evidence, that the accidented diver (who did an unsupervised empty lung static at the bottom of the pool) did not follow the instructed basic safety rules.
 
The thing is, if Aida wish to remove itself from No Limits, the only reason I can see, is on safety grounds. Aida already has existing rules governing the requirements of a record attempt, many of which deal with safety. The question then is, at what depth (if any) does this question of safety arise so much to cause Aida to leave the arena. If there is such a depth, Aida would be better off removing themselves immediatly, before that depth is approached. If Aida have no thoughts on the matter, then as the governing body they will answer to its critics upon every fatality. Every year the question will need answering at the Annual General Meeting and one day they may remove themselves. It wont stop the attempts though and between 30 to 50% of atheletes that go there will continue to die trying. A governing body has a higher degree of responsibility.
 
Guys - please READ the post that suggested that Aida removes itself from NLT.
It suggest to take ALL experience and rules governing the variable ballast dives and form a new governing body for these disciplines.

Main argument is: to let AIDA promote freediving as a SPORT where people compete in competitions without having to be associated with DCS and deaths that will come in NLT. Yes - FIM/CWT will get deeper and more dangerous, but there will be no EQballons and weights involved to reach those depths.

Sebastian

Haydn - the depth has already been reached (by Audrey and Loic)
 
Exactly, and if you include Benjamin Franz thats the 50% or there abouts assuming Patrick, Herbert and Tanya are the other 50%, and I suppose Pippin makes the odds a bit better. And it doesnt matter if they die during an official attempt or in training. They simply die. Either within the first few dives or may get lucky and not die until their 25th dive. But as it stands, about half of them are dead or substantially injured. I would not for a minute suggest the dives should stop, I just question the attempts being sanctioned by our governing body. Certainly a new governing body solely to do with no limits would be the correct approach.
 
I think all aida can do is regulate as best it can how bad are we as a community surely hundreds die every year on scuba I know there a lot more scuba divers in the world but even still. Also the people we read about breaking records are not the only ones practicing nl diving "many" are using it as a training tool maybe not reaching the same depths but deep none the less. The sport is evolving all the time with more people turning to frc as a safer way to dive and now maybe herberts new ideas in nl. How dangerous is this sport? More dangerous than scuba, rockclimbing, climbing everest, basejumping mototcycleracing ? Who knows?
 
Either within the first few dives or may get lucky and not die until their 25th dive.

Just to make clear what we're talking about. Loic dove almost 40 deep dives in training for his last attempt alone (and had planned much more). All together in his career, I imagine the count is several hundred. Probably more than one hairy situations in there as well...
 
Last edited:
AIDA had judged the deepest dive in human history, following AIDA rules and finished succesfully and without any injuries to the diver. Why do you think AIDA is not prepared for deeper dives? AIDA rules are always updating following the new depths and its dangers, so i believe that no one else than AIDA must keep on judging NL records.
 
the broader vision

AIDA had judged the deepest dive in human history, following AIDA rules and finished succesfully and without any injuries to the diver. Why do you think AIDA is not prepared for deeper dives?
Well, who shall have credit for the successful dive? Aida is not very proactive - it is re-active. The sucess of the last attempt I would guess is mostly Herberts and his team. They thought out the "system" and asked for rulechange.

With a madmans stubordness I will repeat - it is not a suggestion of walking away from NLT. Its a suggestion of creating a specialized group that deals mainly with NLT (VWT). Under a new name so that the name AIDA is not associated with NLT that does not well represent our SPORT (neither when its sucessful or fails).

As RXCNC2 writes NLT and other stunts steal all the media attention. Aida needs to be associated with competitions and SPORT - with world championships

Sebastian

PS I am not 100% sure off course, but I would like to see all arguments on the table - I speak for this alternative - you who do not agree - give us your arguments.
1) Would NLT lose anything if the best NLT brains joined forces in a NLT Organization?
2) Would the other disciplines suffer if NLT was "further away" from them?
3) Would Aida weaken in the long run?
 
if it ain't broke don't fix it. it's great the way it is. all sports have their more media based "crazy" side, let NLT be it within regulated freediving. I can't see the media going wild on static regular events for example, unless we can series manufacture large plastic bubbles, get together, and all seal ourselves inside them in times square on the 4th July... Just my 2 1/2 pesos worth.
 
Re: the broader vision

Aida is not very proactive - it is re-active.

In my village we have a saying (no really, we do!):
"You avoid mistakes through experience, but can only gain experience through making mistakes." (Danish proverb)

The sucess of the last attempt I would guess is mostly Herberts and his team. They thought out the "system" and asked for rulechange.

Go figure. So it is the Ferrari team that claims the glory when Michael Schumacher wins a world championship, and not the FIA sanctioning it.

Consider this: Every once in a while someone splatters himself to death in a supercar (pardon the image), so multiple heads (some wise, some dumb) get together to avoid it ever happening again. And deep down, they hopefully understand that absolute safety is an illusion, and that all they can do is keep trying.
In this apnea case, the super-crazy-sled diving is in a troublesome phase with people dying, so Herbert's team develops answers to horrible questions, answers that AIDA can accept. Just like the Ferrari team (or whoever) develops a 'survival cell' in the supercars, or better helmets, what do I know.

As RXCNC2 writes NLT and other stunts steal all the media attention.

Ask yourself, why is that? Why do you think that that's where all the attention goes to? Why are people more interested in Formula One than, say, marathon running? (Lousy comparison perhaps, but...)

Aida needs to be associated with competitions and SPORT - with world championships

I totally, utterly agree. But other freediving interestees will always find super-crazy-sled diving more appealing, probably merely because it reaches greater depths, or because it's machinery, or because it is indeed potentially lethal. The above is just yours and mine personal philosophy (and I'm sure a lot of others, too), but other freedivers have different preferences, and they're probably just as right or just as wrong.

And also, here we are only talking about the freedivers' perspective. In this maniacal equation that the AIDA name is locked into, you got at least three other parties: Media, sponsors and quasi-ignorant spectators. I don't think we should be get too presumptious about what control AIDA has in this process. I don't think AIDA controls anything, all she is is the agency. All she can do is attempt to service the at all times accumulated philosophy, which (as we have seen already) can change chaotically with every new board or Assembly. For each individual in the AIDA circuits, each will have different preferences for various personal reasons, and are probably all right and wrong at the same time. Any board or Assembly will have to try to make sense of all these opinions and wind up with a hopefully generally beneficial accumulated philosophy. Welcome to f***ing politics.

And right now, No Limits freediving is still a part of this accumulated philosophy. It's the Formula One of Apnea, where Constant Without Fins freediving is the Marathon. (You know, something like that...)

1) Would NLT lose anything if the best NLT brains joined forces in a NLT Organization?
2) Would the other disciplines suffer if NLT was "further away" from them?
3) Would Aida weaken in the long run?

These questions are missing the mark. Your primary focus is that AIDA should disassociate itself with NLT, which is colored by 1) your personal apnea philosophy and 2) your benign fears of future deaths. You don't want AIDA's name sprayed with dead freedivers. I can accept if it is, the name AIDA is just a name, provided that we keep giving the best shot we got, accumulatively and all, and accept that sometimes the Sea just claims somebody.

That's my own broader vision. Take it for what it's worth.

Chris Engelbrecht, Copenhagen
 
Last edited:
if it ain't broke don't fix it. it's great the way it is.

I'm gonna have to agree with Seb a bit on this one. No limits is broke, it's not great the way it is, 'cause a couple of us have died and others injured. But what ever, these discussions are hopefully part of the rectification, Insh'Allah.

Chris Engelbrecht, Copenhagen
 
Last edited:
Re: the broader vision

Why are people more interested in Formula One than, say, marathon running?

And right now, No Limits freediving is still a part of this accumulated philosophy. It's the Formula One of Apnea, where Constant Without Fins freediving is the Marathon. (You know, something like that...)

Chris Engelbrecht, Copenhagen

This is a stale point of view and without any knowledge in Public Relations.
CNF is the Formula One of Apnea.

Big Blue was before yesterday. Open your mind and see the future!

greetings Wolle

:: freedivers.info wolle neugebauer's freediving page
 
DeeperBlue.com - The Worlds Largest Community Dedicated To Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing

ABOUT US

ISSN 1469-865X | Copyright © 1996 - 2026 DeeperBlue Global Media Limited.

DeeperBlue.com is an independent digital media platform dedicated to Scuba Diving, Freediving, Ocean Advocacy, and Dive Travel.

Since 1996, we’ve been informing, educating, and inspiring the global diving community through trusted news, features, and shared community experience.

ADVERT