Herbert Nitsch : a -328m no limit dive ??

[jome]

I'm sure Herbert is aware of the possibility. As I understand it is the tertiary backup mechanism after the normal lift as well as using the engines would fail.

I've tried to imagine solutions to make the counterweight "swim away" from the boat/line, but so far came up with zero actually feasible ideas. The best I could come up with was having 2 lines in parallel with a boom keeping the weight in direction. But that would just create more pitfalls than actually solve.

But yeah, take a piece of paper and draw a horizontal line of 1 cm and then 2 vertical ones of 100 cm...It's a pretty disturbing image if you consider the effect of even a small current on 200m of cable.

 

[Stavros]

Simo it is quite possible to deal with current pushing the counterweight towards the dive line.
Say you have a current - That current affects the dive line with the sled as well as the counterweight. It actually affects the diveline more than the counterweight line simply because the sled+diver create more drag than the counterweight (which is just a compact chunk of lead).

So the current actually displaces the diveline more than the counterweight line. Therefore the solution is to put the counterweight and the diveline in line with the direction of the current with the counterweight meeting the current before the diveline. Therefore the counterweight is displaced a bit (smaller drag) and the diveline is displaced more (larger drag) ... so the diveline is actually pushed away from the counterweight

Cheers stavros

 

[tylerz]

Where you guys are from and where the record will be attempted do you not encounter cross currents?

 

[cebaztian]

But you must keep in mind the following things:
1. The 10m distance is more than is used in most counterweight systems (most allow a distance of not more than 5m between the lines)
2. The counterweight is going to be slowed down at the point when it is crossing the sled during ascent so as to make sure it does not get tangled.
3. The counterweight diver retrieval system does not depend on the counterweight in order to lift the diver - two independent electric motors are lifting the diveline and can lift a great weight (even the diveline tangled with the counterweight)

None of which is an argument. 1) "used to" - what if they used to do WRONG? 2) It can get tangled at ANY point. 3) It can still get tangled if it has to be used (the weight).

But I guess the likelyhood of needing the weight is minimal if the two engines do their job. Question is if the rope is coiled on deck or is let down on the otherside with the weight?

Seb
Sweden

 

[strauss]

Any news on another ridiculous attempt?

 

[Billextreme]

Ridiculous is not the right word for a dive to 1000ft/305m.

/B

 

[drea]

ridiculous? you are flipping out. and please, use the correct terminology in the future. examples: cool, funky, amazing, unbelivable, bla bla bla..
but never ridiculous. it upsets people. well me.

 

[BennyB]

What's this - is there another attempt in the pipeline?

 

[Jorg]

What's this - is there another attempt in the pipeline?

The current world record was just a small step to his ultimate goal. I already posted something about it beginning this year Herbert Plans For 700 feet! | Shark Freediving
Amazing stuff...

 

[BennyB]

Ah, I thought after the last dive it was in the pipeline for a while.

 

[samdive]

should we really be encouraging this? ridiculous, maybe, suicidal, quite possibly

time to draw a limit on no limits

Sam
(still thinking about Loic)

 

[ADR]

Sam,

I understand your concerns and if you are thinking of Loic, perhaps ask yourself what he might have thought of the concept of limiting No Limits....surely we owe him that respect before changing the discipline he was so wonderful at.

 

[Kars]

How far will people go to achive?

How long can an organisation support and benefit, profit, from an athletes' increasing higher risktaking? - An old CMAS question comming back into my head.

Personally I hope that Herbert succeeds in his dream, and that it would cost an awfull lot of money, training, talent and willpower, in order to put it out of everyone's reach for a long period of time.

Love, courage and water!

Kars

 

[efattah]

People die all the time while driving cars. Therefore, you could take two approaches:

1. Discourage all people from driving cars, because it is very dangerous.

OR

2. Try to improve the car engineering, traffic signals, and driver education to make driving safer.


Which do you choose? Which one do you think Loic would have wanted?

 

[wolleneugebauer]

People die all the time while driving cars. Therefore, you could take two approaches:

1. Discourage all people from driving cars, because it is very dangerous.

OR

2. Try to improve the car engineering, traffic signals, and driver education to make driving safer.


Which do you choose? Which one do you think Loic would have wanted?

The traffic/nolimit-compare is not correct. No limit is like "formula 1" races.
I think both are unnecessary.
I think everybody is free to decide the own suicide. But why in our freediving organisation?
Sorry, Wolle

 

[bluecape]

Surely you understand that man's greatest trait is a need / desire and determination to keep pushing a little further all the time. They wanted No Limits banned when Mayol hit 100m, but ongoing advancements in technology and science has proven that the limit goes way beyond. All the concern about the safety?? I can guarentee that each stage of the No Limits journey over the years has been almost as hazardous, due to the lack of knowledge at the time. As man learns more about the physiology, and as the methods and equipment improve, so the depth will keep increasing...and at each stage, there will be people shouting "No more".

But as long as there are people like Jacques Mayol, Loic, Herbert and xxxx in 2010...mankind will continue to go deeper.
Rather than try to stop this natural advancement, rather watch, wish them good luck, and keep hoping that the incidents are limited.

Regards

Jeff

 

[BWD]

Someone asked me recently why people dove no-limits, why it was such a life goal to try to go a few meters further than the last guy...aside from ego and fame

It was kind of hard to answer...

I think it's amazing and awesome, but how do you explain the motivation?

 

[chrismar]

Someone asked me recently why people dove no-limits, why it was such a life goal to try to go a few meters further than the last guy...aside from ego and fame

It was kind of hard to answer...

I think it's amazing and awesome, but how do you explain the motivation?

How do you explain 100m guys trying to be 100ths of a second better than eachother? The truth is that there are many motivations for these sorts of things, be it personal achievement, internal forfillment or sheer competitive spirit. Perhaps divers like Loic and Herbert just want to show the world what's possible for the human body and mind or maybe they're proving it to themselves. Maybe its the joy of doing something, going somewhere that nobody else has been or experienced. I don't know which it is, it may be a combination of these, but I can understand how somebody could be motivated for such a thing.

 

[steff]

Hi all,
I've been watching this debate transpire, and feel like I need to weigh in. To qualify, I've never done a no limits dive, however have had unfortunately way to much experience with adventure sports and the consequences of them.

When friends die doing something, it's often easy to blame the activity. It's important to remember why they did that activity - because they loved it. It's OK to miss them, and be sad that they're gone, but calling it ridiculous and suicidal cheapens their contribution to the sport they obviously loved.

I'm pretty sure that Herbet knows the risks involved when he plans and completes his no limits dives. He also spends a lot of time, (and money) trying to mitigate that risk. You're right, it doesn't eliminate the risk. However, to me, if someone knows that they are engaging in risk taking behaviour (and not hurting anyone else), and fully understands the nature of the risk, and still choose to do it, then the consequences of their actions are theirs to deal with, and that's ok.

I'm sorry, people die. However to me, the deaths we really should be outcrying against are the easily avoidable ones where people aren't educated about the risks they are taking (the kid doing statics in their bathtub, for example). They are the real tragedies, cause if they knew what the risks of what they were doing, they probalby wouldn't have done it.

My acid test? If you died doing it, and one of your friends, could look your parents' straight in the eyes, and tell them how much you loved doing that sport (eg NL diving), how excited you were at the thought of doing it, how your eyes lit up when you talked about it, how disappointed you were when weather conditions were against you, and really, all round, how much you lived FOR doing it - than it's ok.

It's not up to us to decide. It's up to each individual to decide about what risks they want to take.

It's a simple cost vs benefit analysis. If the personal reward is great enough, the cost doesn't matter.

steff

 

[jome]

A common misconseption of "extreme" sports is that people who take part in them are suicidal maniacs who get a kick out of flirting with death. I'm sure for someone unfamilliar with the activity it may indeed seem so, and there even are such people, although they don't usually hang around very long (they either quit or injure them selves in a matter of few years).

For those who truly love the sport, it's not about putting your self into situations you don't control and getting an adrenaline rush. It's about controlling your self and the situation as well as possible. For such people there is at least as much joy and excitement in preparing, planning, building, training etc, to make your self as prepared for the event as possible. For such people it is also natural to always look for new challenges. It's not so much about beating rivals, such a person usually takes joy in seeing his rivals succeed as well as that means that the sport in general has grown. But it's very much about beating your self and it sure doesn't hurt if the performance is also a "world record". What's the point of repeating just what you did before if you know you could do even better? It's not so much about doing a depth x, but doing something that is considered hard, dangerous and even impossible, and doing it right.

Not knowing Herbert personally, but based on what I've seen, read and heard, I'd guess he would be such a person. I think it is safe to say he is in his on league in no-limits currently. There is no one else to beat.

I agree there may be room for debate if AIDA should be involved in No-Limits or not. But I would not go as far as ban this activity all together and take it away from those who love it. They certainly know the risks involved, but as long as they don't put others unwillingly at risk, I think it is their decision to make? And what better way to gather the cumulative learnings for each attempt than a federation such as AIDA?

So how to explain that to someone who's biggest challenge is choosing what channel to watch? Or someone driven completely by outside influences and glory, doing his performances only to seek approval from others? Personally, I think it is better to not even try. The view of life, experiences and value systems is just so completely off tune with each other, it's like speaking in a completely foreing language. Usually when people are ready to see the difference, they already come to this conclusion on their own.