How do you pass the Winter?

[Dark&Cold.Diver]

The most dangerous creature

I usually dont participate in discussions about subjects that i dont know much about, but in this matter i feel that i have to!!
Some people on this forum talks about hunting and how we need that to not destroy our eco-system.
But isnt the most dangerous creature on this planet the human?
I think we are the creature that has afflicted most damage to our planet in the shortest time.
We are the only creature that just cannot accept that our nature has its own way, and sometimes it feels that we are acting like gods.
I think that the nature should have solved its own problems if we never existed, we are just to greedy and selfish to realize that.
So i just have to say maybe we should have hunting season on humans 1 month every year to solve the biggest problems with our eco-system!
But fortunently we dont need to do that , we solve that by wars , explotation and starvation.
And who knows maybe that the nature will strike back to her biggest threat soon , as we cant live in harmony with the rest of natures system.

Sincerely Jeppe.

 

[LioKai]

In an effort to clearify my opinion....

As I stated in my original post on this subject, I think spearing in general is fine, especially if you are hunting for subsistance, (to fill your own freezer). I am only against spearing for profit because of the potental for a very large take. The likelyhood of removing a species from a specific area is high. I am speaking locally, yes. Each area of the spearfishing world is different. As the slogan says "I am acting locally". For here at least, I would like to see commericial spearfishing on scuba banned. I would like to see this happen before the bunny people have a reason and the proof to attempt to stop all spearing.
This view that I hold is specific. I am a supporter of the local spearfishing shop who is at the forefront of this opinion. I do not want to see all spearing banned.

Matthew

 

[rigdvr]

seriously, those that think spearing on scuba is a joke, come here and tell it to the families of the many killed here trying to do it. These guys shoot grouper over 300#'s at 200+ ft on air with NO powerhead! Speared fish cannot be sold commercially here so they do it for the sport. The best freedivers in the world CAN NOT hunt some of this stuff. We are not blessed with a shallow inshore resource. I find myself wanting to bang my head against the wall listening to some of you. You sound EXACTLY like PETA when you say "spearing on scuba should be banned alltogether" b/c YOU dont think it has a place. Well they dont think spearing has a place at all. Its when people impose their beliefs on others that we are all in danger. Fish are a public resource. For most species their is an allotment per person for each species. I say who cares how you get that one fish, if you only take your allotment.

Now while I have my own limits on whats sporting and whats not(I would never hunt on scuba over the reefs of Florida for example, and I havent used a tank at all in almost two years) far be it from me to impose MY beliefs on ayone else not breaking the law.

To Jeppe...do what??? Man is a species of animal. As such we are an integral part of the ecosystem. We have been hunters since the beginning of our time. I bet you have no problem eating fish at a restaurant caught by a commercial trawler that produces bycatch that has to measured in METRIC TONS:duh but you have a problem with me taking my personal limit with no bycatch????

 

[Jon]

come here and tell it to the families of the many killed here trying to do it. These guys shoot grouper over 300#'s at 200+ ft on air

Our grave yards up here are full of strokes who found out that that air is the wrong gas choice for dives below 200'+.

If scuba is nessecary, because of the depth, they should at least be trying to do it as safely as possible.

Dive safe,

jon

 

[LioKai]

Quote from rigdvr:
"Speared fish cannot be sold commercially here so they do it for the sport."
This is exactly my desired point.

I don't think anyone is questioning the skill required to hunt.

 

[cdavis]

Folks, its not how you take'em, its how many you take. There are times and places where freediving is far more efficient a method to put pounds in the boat than scuba. Much of the Bahamas is like that. The reverse is also true. By the same token, there are places where freediving spearfishing just isn't feasible for the vast majority of (good ) divers. Most of the Gulf of Mexico is that way. Scuba makes good sense there.
In my well -spent youth, I participated in slaughter for sale using both types of gear, as the conditions dictated. I loved every adrenalin filled second of it. Still some of my best memories. That stuff isn't allowed most places any more and it should NEVER have been allowed, much as I enjoyed it. I have watched fish populations in the Florida Keys, Gulf of Mexico and Bahamas get smaller and smaller. Particularly in the Keys and Bahamas, freediving spearos had a lot to do with the decline. We are all (and I mean everybody, commercial and recreational alike) stlll taking too many fish in my part of the world. I vote for letting a man use whatever gear the conditions warrant and restricting the heck out of the total catch with baglimits, size limits, closed seasons, closed areas and whatever else it takes to get the fish back.

Connor

 

[LioKai]

I agree

 

[gonetobaja]

Shooting fish while on SCUBA is illegal in Mexico. They have already been through this argument and have decided to make spearing fish as difficult as possible. While this is a good idea for conservation they will still let the shrimp boats trawl and suck up everything they can get into their nets and then throw away everything that isnt a shrimp. The result is hundreds of dead baby fish off all kinds washed up on the beach in front of my house, so thick that the gulls just stand around lookin at each other stuffed as if to say "boy they kinda over did it huh?"

I cant wait for shrimp season to be over.

I say we ban any type of ocean fish harvest by commercial means. If you dont have the nuts to go get fish either by SCUBA, Freediving, or just fishing with a line then maybe you should be eating a farm raised catfish.

With that said Im about to go kill a grouper.....:duh

Yep no SCUBA for spearos down here but there is a gill net about 100 yards from my house....now thats smart, we got some great laws down here

GTB
www.gonetobaja.com

 

[Dark&Cold.Diver]

Missunderstanding??

To rigdvr:
I dont know if you missunderstood of what i have written??
First of all my thoughts written earlier wasnt an accusation to any one, it seems that especially you felt that way?
It was an opinion that i felt that i wanted to share with you.
First of all i dont think im better than anyone else by saying that "hunting for fun" seems like a destructive behavour when we already exploit this planet to its maximum.
Hunting itself dont have to be a destructive behaviour , as long as it will benfit more then the ego of someone that enjoys killing other creatures.
I think any one that hunts knows that "recreational-hunting"
has it downsides, by that i mean all the illegal hunting of creatures that has been driven to the brink of destruction by man.
I have to agree with you when you say that the man by nature is a hunter, but i will also go further and say that man by nature is a "Consumer" that is fairly ruthless in a very destructive way.
You dont exactly have to take your gun out shooting something to get food on your table anymore, because it is like you mentioned a hughe industry that solves problem for us theese days.
And yes i am participating in the support of this industry, but atleast im aware of it and i try to do the best i can... not to supporting the worst parts of it.
And when it comes to fish NO i dont eat fish that has been taken in millions by gigant trawlers, for instance i dont eat cod anymore because the fish has almost been instinguished in the region where i live, i usually buy fish from local fishermens.
Atlast ruthless hunting is only one approach for us to destroy this planet there are thousands of others, but hopefully we will realize what is happening ,before it is to late.
I hope my children will experience the same beauty that i have experienced through my life.





Jeppe.

 

[rigdvr]

what your describing isnt recreational hunting...its called poaching.:duh I make my living taking people fishing 12 months a year and on my days off I spear as my pasttime of choice. As such, I am intimately aware of the status of our fisheries and thats why sportsman contribute 90% of the monies to conserve the resource...not the commercial fisherman, even your local ones(or the "save the world groups either"). They are the ones that have lobbyist pushing for greater quotas and extended seasons while the recreational angler sees his quota reduced time and time again.

Whats more harmful, me killing 3 or 4 fish for my consumption or you buying fish from a local commercial fisherman that still has a bycatch...and believe me ALL fisherman have a bycatch, thats just a fact of the business. Why should they get all the access to the resource I am paying to preserve so they can exploit it for financial gain?

My main concern is you lumping law abiding, conservation minded hunters with poachers. I would ask what you are personally doing to preserve the resource you want your children to enjoy, I pay the extra taxes(I even voted to do so) on fishing related items that goes directly to the marine conservation fund, my terrestrial hunting taxes do the same for the deer herd. I follow all guidlines the commissions set up to regulate stocks and even take part in scientific research by bringing fish to local biologists to study. Occcasionally we even donate the charter boat to assist in research, both doing fish counts and samples that could regulate my pasttime even more but if thats what it takes to make sure that I can go fishing tommorrow and my children can go 20 years from now, then I do it with great pride.

Please carefully consider my position not as an attack on your words, that is not my intent. I do get fired up when defending my rights though. Its kinda like a Jahovah's Witness knocking on a Muslims door I guess...:head . I try to respect the other side of the coins beliefs all most of us ask for is reciprocation of that.

 

[Dark&Cold.Diver]

........

Dont know why so many spearfishers or people who hunts gets upset .
If you do what you are saying then no harm is done , then you shouldnt feel blamed either??
We are talking about two different things , im talking about people who missuses their rights to hunt animals.
Dont know how it is in different countries , but here in Sweden theres pretty much illegal hunting up in the north.
ex.(People whos chasing wolwes with snowmobiles and and shotguns just for fun), thoose creatures are extremly rare here and they are soon all dead.
And i hopefully and truefully think that some of you would agree that thoose kind of things isnt good for anyone except the hunters doing it for their own satisfaction.
I have my opnion about this matter , i could keep on arguing about this and give you millions of examples of behaviour that i think is bad and stupid and is related to hunting.
Im not trying to lecturing peolpe up or trying to say what they shall do or not do , im just sharing an opinion.
And hopefully many spearfishers or people that hunts wont feel targeted at all by my opinions , because they dont missuses their rights or doing things that will damage our nature.


Jeppe.

 

[LioKai]

Asked by rigdvr:
"I would ask what you are personally doing to preserve the resource you want your children to enjoy".

First I stopped taking from it. Now I film it. My video work is used on local television and in local schools for underwater education. I participate in local government functions and discussions on conservation. I refer tourist business to sport fishing boats that release all of their catch. I speak to the general public of my past and what I have learned from my time in and on the ocean. And much much more. All for free. As I stated in my first post, no ammount of money can repay the damage I personally have done to the ocean. So I am trying to do my part to help others understand the ocean ecosystem before they too do some things they will regret.
Matthew J D'Avella
Kona Hawaii

 

[Murat]

Just a note
Line fishermans can think that they have right to take (catch) more fish than speros but i am not sure if they are aware of the problem that most of the fish will die after releasing
:naughty
So i preffer sperfishing over linefishing if the purpose is conservation...

 

[rigdvr]

Jeppe, the problem is you calling these poachers hunters. True hunters and sportsmen alike are truly conservation minded. What I dont understand Jeppe is why you get on a hunting thread, stir the pot and then ask,"why do you get mad if you've done nothing wrong?" Can you not see that you were grouping us all together both the poachers and the sportsmen?

Lio Kai, good. Thank you for your contrabutions. Here the local fisherman are the ones persuing stiffer legeslation to save the species we enjoy. We even have a charter captain/fellow freediver that has addressed congress 3 times this year alone to establish old oil rigs as EFH's(essential fish habitiats) these rigs are slated for dismantling but are home to many species of corals, sponges, turtles, fish, ect, many of which are endangered. You can check out his work at www.towersoflife.com

While I try to understand your position I do find it offensive that you wish to impose your views on others

 

[Dark&Cold.Diver]

Rgdiver:Can you not see that you were grouping us all together both the poachers and the sportsmen?

That was or have never been my intention, if you read my last post you will notice that i was trying to say the opposite.
Poachers and hunters are not the same youre right , i just used wrong words (bad english)
But hopefully you still understand what i meant.

For me its end of discussion now i feel that we wont get any further in this subject, i think that most people on this forum has a great respect for our nature.
I think most free-divers and divers that i have met love the world under the water , and the same should go for the people that hunts or or likes outdoor activites .
And that means that most of us wants to preserve our assets for our future.

Jeppe.

 

[rigdvr]

then why didnt you just say so

I understand your point now...I also get upset with people who misuse our resources.

Yall really check out that link...it has great info and awesome pics of life on the rigs.

 

[LioKai]

I checked out "Towers of Life", twice. Very impressive.

rigdvr, I'm still not sure why you think I'm imposing my views onto others.
I shoot video of fish behaviors, especially courting and mating rituals and nesting defense postures. I have never told anyone not to hunt. (although I did suggest trading in the spear for a camera, no offense intended). My reasons for not hunting are my reasons alone, I've never addressed this issue on video, on tv, or in the schools. The television broadcasts are of aquatic behaviors only, they (the tv station) came to me and asked me to do it, same with the schools, to create and inhance an understanding of the aquatic realm. What I am doing here is not any different than the basics of "Towers of Life". I just wanted to show people that another world exists below the surface of the ocean. That fish do not just sit there in a blank existance. I wanted to share my knowledge and my experiences of those behaviors, not my views on why I no longer fish.

Murat, what you stated about line fishing is completely correct. Many of the charter boat captains are now sharing their experiences with each other in an effort to learn a better way to catch and release without stressing the marlin to such a state to cause death. It is a long road of trial and error, but advances have been made, and with the help of satelite taging and open discussions the number of thriving releases is beginning to rise. When I stated that I only refer business to boats that release, I am refering to boats that openly participate in the taging and the sharing of information with others.

A difference can only be made if people work together. No offense has ever been intended toward anyone.

For the record, I was invited by about a dozen spearos to dive with them and to shoot video of an eagle ray cleaning behavior that they noticed to be unusual, I didn't know any of them before yesterday, but they knew my video footage and my truck in the parking lot. If I was imposing my personal views, believe me locals would let me know it. Ask anyone from Hawaii. You don't mess with locals.

I'm beginning to take a beating in the "bad karma" department, so this will have to be my last post in this thread.

Once again no offense intended, including my attempt to compare what I do to the "Towers" project, no offense intended there either.

Matthew

 

[rigdvr]

Matthew...dont worry about the karma...its a tool for those who dont wish to openly express their views here(even when I sound stupid I like to say things on the forum instead of through karma so at least you have the chance to clarify like you did). After that post I believe we just have a misunderstanding. When you said that you were educating others so they dont regret what they are doing that sounded like you regret spearing and so on....like I said before, thank you for your work and love of the ocean...thats one thing we share for sure.

education of the masses is the only hope for our oceans in general as well as spearfishing. I get defensive only b/c where I live spearing is not common and the anglers think its like shooting fish in a barrell...:head

 

[rigdvr]

I can tell the winter has been bad this year by all of us with cabin fever...I think thats whats fueling all my bickering. Its only blowing 35 knots out of the North today:hmm

 

[unirdna]

Originally posted by rigdvr
the anglers think its like shooting fish in a barrell...:head

The anglers are absolutely correct....so long as they can find a 360,000,000,000,000,000,000 gallon barrell.