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Infinitengines "Dreamair" pneumatic speargun
- Thread starterpopgun pete
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
A month or so back the "Dreamair" guns were said to be almost ready to put on the market, but there is currently no retail outlet listing for them and the e-shop mentioned earlier has not yet commenced operation. A problem for the company will be to estimate the initial demand and build up an inventory of completed guns and parts to meet that demand at the right price. Gearing up for mass production is expensive and for the enterprise to be profitable the financial figures have to add up or company investors will not be interested.
Just how many people would buy a "Dreamair" gun and at what price? Plenty of interest has been shown, but that does not mean that there are lots of buyers. Part of a marketing program would be to find answers to such questions, but right now there does not appear to be a marketing program beyond what has been seen to date in terms of promoting the design and concepts.
Just how many people would buy a "Dreamair" gun and at what price? Plenty of interest has been shown, but that does not mean that there are lots of buyers. Part of a marketing program would be to find answers to such questions, but right now there does not appear to be a marketing program beyond what has been seen to date in terms of promoting the design and concepts.
I don't think it is up to us as potential buyers to say what we would like to spend, although I already did in a previous post. The concept is completely new and I can imagine, myself included, that it would be good to see it in action or at least be able to hold the gun and inspect it visually before spending a lot of money.
Maybe they can organise an event or join an existing spearfishing event and show their product to potential customers and let them try it out.
The lower the initial price the more people who can afford one and the sooner word is past around. On the other hand it is an exclusive design which seems quality build and that comes at a price too.
If marketing is the issue they should involve someone from the industry with a good amount of experience and good connections.
I really wish for them to succeed and look forward to see those guns being used in the near future.
Youtube is a powerful marketing tool, they could sponsor a handful of active youtube-spearo's and have them post video's of the gun in actual hunting situations.
Maybe they can organise an event or join an existing spearfishing event and show their product to potential customers and let them try it out.
The lower the initial price the more people who can afford one and the sooner word is past around. On the other hand it is an exclusive design which seems quality build and that comes at a price too.
If marketing is the issue they should involve someone from the industry with a good amount of experience and good connections.
I really wish for them to succeed and look forward to see those guns being used in the near future.
Youtube is a powerful marketing tool, they could sponsor a handful of active youtube-spearo's and have them post video's of the gun in actual hunting situations.
The lack of a marketing program will start to hurt the project as when people have no information they begin to think that either there are insurmountable technical problems or a decision has been made not to proceed for some reason, such as the economic viability of the project being open to question. I know that a different version of the "Dreamair" design has been tested based on changes in the construction and that this has been the cause of some delay, however I have refrained from saying anything until there was an official announcement which I had thought would have occurred by now. You will have to wait for that announcement as I cannot say what it is as I don't know all the details in any case. The "Infinitengines" website http://www.infinitengines.com has been out of action for a long time now and I think that it needs to be re-established in order to provide some ongoing information as otherwise there is no way for people to find out what is happening. Just checking on the Greek spearfishing forum where the gun was first discussed there have been no new posts for months and Internet searches don't reveal anything new.
Contrast this with the "Airbalete" which Omer had been putting info out on well before it was commercially available, that kept the market informed and interested and built-up potential customer numbers as they had a reasonable idea of how long they had to wait.
Contrast this with the "Airbalete" which Omer had been putting info out on well before it was commercially available, that kept the market informed and interested and built-up potential customer numbers as they had a reasonable idea of how long they had to wait.
Well after a long absence I thought that there may be some new info posted here, but as you can see there has been nothing. I have contacted the inventor/manufacturer for an update in order to see where things are at. I have also been wondering how to make the winding drums without machining each one individually, but without any loss of strength, as molding some part of them may help lower their cost.
Hey Pete,
A few of us were getting worried. Hope you are in good health and the absence was a pleasant one.
Coincidentally, a few days back I was thinking about this exact gun and went to check the webpage, which is dead, and the Facebook, which hasn't had a post on it for more than a year. I hope you dig up some positive news on it and welcome back!
A few of us were getting worried. Hope you are in good health and the absence was a pleasant one.
Coincidentally, a few days back I was thinking about this exact gun and went to check the webpage, which is dead, and the Facebook, which hasn't had a post on it for more than a year. I hope you dig up some positive news on it and welcome back!
For the first time ever I had a spell in hospital and found myself on the medical "merry-go-round", which is very hard to get off! I was surprised that nothing had happened while I was "out of action" as I did not have a computer over all that time that I could access.
I hope I am wrong, but I just don't see a great idea in these designs. In my mind, it's a pneumatic implement inspired by roller-sling obsession. In Greece we do have an obsession with rollers and slings for some reason (and wooden spearguns, preferably covered in carbon fiber 
).
The only thing that I can think of, is this design could perhaps simplify the loading a long pneumatic gun.
).The only thing that I can think of, is this design could perhaps simplify the loading a long pneumatic gun.
Basically it is a sling operated, pneumatic powered speargun without the problems of rubber bands breaking or wearing out as is the case with conventional band guns. If you look back over this thread then you will see that Mares have had similar ideas, however passing the cable drive through a pressure bulkhead has sealing problems unless the cable has a smooth surface that will not damage the seal. The "Dreamair" has an inner cable and outer cable as the pressure sealing task is achieved by placing seals on the revolving axle that connects the inner and outer winding drums that are keyed onto the axle.
If everything keeps working and the speargun does not require any special handling requirements then it should be a very versatile weapon, the big question is what will it cost. I am sure there are plenty of people interested in the unique design and the variable gearing advantages that are said to make loading easier. it would be interesting to check that aspect by slightly pressurizing the gun and conducting wishbone draws to evaluate the feel as you pulled the wishbone back, gradually pumping the gun up to higher pressure after each set of evaluations. This could be done without firing the gun by never actually cocking the gun each time you tried it. In use the gun would be much more highly pressurized, but for this testing lower starting pressures would allow the operator to judge the feel of the variable drive as the wishbone was pulled back and forth.
If everything keeps working and the speargun does not require any special handling requirements then it should be a very versatile weapon, the big question is what will it cost. I am sure there are plenty of people interested in the unique design and the variable gearing advantages that are said to make loading easier. it would be interesting to check that aspect by slightly pressurizing the gun and conducting wishbone draws to evaluate the feel as you pulled the wishbone back, gradually pumping the gun up to higher pressure after each set of evaluations. This could be done without firing the gun by never actually cocking the gun each time you tried it. In use the gun would be much more highly pressurized, but for this testing lower starting pressures would allow the operator to judge the feel of the variable drive as the wishbone was pulled back and forth.
No objections, really! I still have a couple of points.
a.All slings have oscillation, because of the way they pull the shaft (major problem!), so why do that? and,
b. It looks like a complicated assemlby. Users need simple stuff.
b.1. That loader will never work underwater, not for most of us, and only in very calm waters. Is that a crossbow loader???
a.All slings have oscillation, because of the way they pull the shaft (major problem!), so why do that? and,
b. It looks like a complicated assemlby. Users need simple stuff.
b.1. That loader will never work underwater, not for most of us, and only in very calm waters. Is that a crossbow loader???
There is a video of the gun shooting shot after shot over a sandy bottom with no apparent problems. The dyneema wishbone cables have to not jump the spiral tracks on the winding drums as they are rapidly wound on during the shot or there would be problems with uneven pull side to side on the shaft. I had my doubts earlier, but the gun seems to work OK while it is new, how it functions over longer periods will show up in long term testing which has been ongoing for some time now. The actual concept is simple, but the execution is complicated by the need for precision parts as can be seen in the many photos posted here.
The gun should not require much maintenance beyond the periodic replacement of drive cables. The special tools to remove the drums for this task are shown in the photos and I assume a buyer receives them as part of the gun package. As for the market, well there are always people looking for exotic products and have the necessary money to indulge themselves. Not for nothing did I post a photo of the guns leaning against a Lambo SUV using a bit of image manipulation! The inventor says that the guns will be affordable, so we just have to wait and see.
There is a video of that loader being used in a swimming pool to cock the gun, so it seemed to work OK in that instance. In fact it is shown at the beginning of the shooting video.
The gun should not require much maintenance beyond the periodic replacement of drive cables. The special tools to remove the drums for this task are shown in the photos and I assume a buyer receives them as part of the gun package. As for the market, well there are always people looking for exotic products and have the necessary money to indulge themselves. Not for nothing did I post a photo of the guns leaning against a Lambo SUV using a bit of image manipulation! The inventor says that the guns will be affordable, so we just have to wait and see.
There is a video of that loader being used in a swimming pool to cock the gun, so it seemed to work OK in that instance. In fact it is shown at the beginning of the shooting video.
There is a new version of the gun now being prepared. I would like to lay my hands on one, even if it was a first generation alloy gun, just to get a feel of the loading effort as the gearing changed with the varying radius that cables pull from on the inner and outer winding drums. You start off at a small radius on the outer drums (near their outer ends) while the inner drum is wrapping onto a large radius and at the end of the wishbone draw you are pulling on a large radius (inner ends at the maximum radius of the outer drums) with the cable fully unwound while the inner cable is completing wrapping of the inner drum at a much smaller radius. Thus leverage works against you at the start of the draw, but works for you at the end when pressure in the gun has reached its maximum due to compression.
Attachments
After looking at the video a number of times I now understand how the loaders work. The blue cord passes through a hole in each loading handle which is superimposed on a narrow slot as seen in the magnified view of that area of the loading handle. What happens is the loading handle is twisted so that a knot (2) on the cord, which passes easily through the hole, will catch in the slot and that allows the cord to be dragged back as you begin cocking the gun. The simple wire hooks are attached to the actual wishbone and the loading handle on each side is pulled back to drop the anchor loop (3) on the blue cord into the shaft notch or onto a shaft tab. Then the loading handles are slid forwards on the blue cords, which are now under tension, to catch on the second set of knots by twisting the loading handles and then you can drag the actual wishbone back to the shaft notch or tab. This creates slack in the rear section of loader cord so that the actual wishbone can replace the loader’s anchor loop which will fall off the shaft notch or tab.
The “Dreamloader” version with pulleys works much the same way except that the pulley in the hooks halves your loading effort, but you now have to pull twice the length of cord through the pulleys to cock the gun as the cord is doubling up on itself around the pulleys. The one-way pulley action allows the loading handles to be moved up the cords to engage the second set of knots. The work done to cock the gun is the same, but instead of F x d you are replacing this with F/2 x 2d. The force F is actually not a constant, but this gives you an idea of the principle involved.
The “Dreamloader” version with pulleys works much the same way except that the pulley in the hooks halves your loading effort, but you now have to pull twice the length of cord through the pulleys to cock the gun as the cord is doubling up on itself around the pulleys. The one-way pulley action allows the loading handles to be moved up the cords to engage the second set of knots. The work done to cock the gun is the same, but instead of F x d you are replacing this with F/2 x 2d. The force F is actually not a constant, but this gives you an idea of the principle involved.
After looking at the video a number of times I now understand how the simple version of the loader works. The blue cord passes through a hole in each loading handle which is superimposed on a narrow slot as seen in the magnified view of that area of the loading handle. The loading handle is twisted so that the knot in each cord, which passes easily through the hole, will catch in the side slot and that allows the cord to be dragged back.
The simple wire hooks are first attached to the actual wishbone and the loading handle on each side is then pulled back to drop the rear loop of the blue cord into the shaft notch or onto a shaft tab. Then the loading handles are slid forwards on the blue cords, which are now under some tension, to engage the second set of knots located immediately behind the hooks by twisting the loading handles in order to catch onto them. Then you can drag the actual wishbone back to the shaft notch or tab. This creates slack in the rear section of loader cord so that the actual wishbone can replace the cord loop which will now disengage from the shaft notch or tab. (combining the two types in one post was confusing, I plan to delete the above post once I figure out how to do it!)
Attached Thumbnails
The simple wire hooks are first attached to the actual wishbone and the loading handle on each side is then pulled back to drop the rear loop of the blue cord into the shaft notch or onto a shaft tab. Then the loading handles are slid forwards on the blue cords, which are now under some tension, to engage the second set of knots located immediately behind the hooks by twisting the loading handles in order to catch onto them. Then you can drag the actual wishbone back to the shaft notch or tab. This creates slack in the rear section of loader cord so that the actual wishbone can replace the cord loop which will now disengage from the shaft notch or tab. (combining the two types in one post was confusing, I plan to delete the above post once I figure out how to do it!)
Attached Thumbnails
The “Dreamloader” works in a similar fashion to the simple loader except that instead of pulling the wishbone back directly this loader uses a pulley system that is incorporated in the hooks. This anchors one end of the cord on the shaft using a metal anchor loop so that half the load at any draw position of the cable wishbone is taken up by the shaft itself and the other half is taken up by the loading handles. That means for the same rearward displacement of the wishbone the cord has to be pulled twice the distance it was moved previously with the simple version. A schematic diagram shows how this “block and tackle” arrangement works in the accompanying attachment. This device is intended to make loading easier at higher loads.
