-
Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:
- Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
- Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
- Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
- Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
- All this and much more...
You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!
Lunocet photos from DEMA
- Thread starterOl Dirty Diver
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Hi trux,
Nope. I don't think it's on your list - unless there's a second page I didn't see. Don't worry it will be soon. :t
Hi Noa,
Long time! Still subsurfing?
This design has been in the working prototype stage for many years now and I'm going to consult with the inventor before I release many more details. It has popped up already on the net here and there.
The initial goal was not high performance but rather surface swimming, underwater use on scuba and freediving, and efficiency.
That being said there are ways in which it could be modified for high performance and likely it would work under AIDA rules. I don't think that breaching would be its strong point, though. But you never know.
Give me a chance and I'll have info up soon.
There's no website - the inventor will only produce it for sale if it is something people find useful, interesting, fun, etc... So that's why I'm bringing it to the Bahamas for longer term testing.
I plan to swim several km per day with it and use it for rec freediving. It works nicely with FRC so far since it has very little mass.
I know you're going to be curious now! Just give me a sec....
Pete
@Noa...
Marketing claims? Where do we say surface swimming? The lunocet is not designed for surface swimming. It is designed primarily for breaching... hydrotouring involves dynamic where you actually go somewhere and see something... it's a by-product of the efficiency and comfort we've arrived at on the way to a breaching tool.
Marketing claims? Where do we say surface swimming? The lunocet is not designed for surface swimming. It is designed primarily for breaching... hydrotouring involves dynamic where you actually go somewhere and see something... it's a by-product of the efficiency and comfort we've arrived at on the way to a breaching tool.
Ah, sorry, that was actually the DolphFin. I guess yours must be an invention of Eric, then
Yes, I hope to add it there soon!
Hi Pete,
good to hear from you mate. yes still subsurfing ! maybe going to Maui again this winter as new things are about to happen with it. i'll keep you posted if you're interested.
i actually relaunched the subsurfing thread a few weeks ago to see if there was any interest here but there was not much. everyone is too excited about wanting to breach now. i should tell them i've been breaching for years and do it in every good sub session. my breach takes a wave to perform, but that actually makes it even more dynamic in feeling.
have you been subsurfing at all ? still interested in it ?
would very much like to hear about this fin when you get a chance. i'm planning some long distance island crossings in Greece and am looking for the right tool for the job.
speak soon mate...
we have not had the opportunity to speak yet but i have been in contact with Nico until recently. i have been featured twice in your blog (regarding subsurfing aka underwater bodysurfing and the cycling shoe idea).
anyway, i appologise for the sound of my last post and would much prefer to speak on a more positive note with you.
having worked in development and testing in a few watersports, i'm always quite sceptical of new products until they have been well tested and proven. my comment came after reading the post explaining that it was not very efficient for surface swimming.
i'm not sure i understood well what you mean by hydrotouring in your above post. from reading your blog and site where you mention this activity frequently, i had concluded that the Lunocet was also good for surface swimming (what you call hydrotouring).
you describe it as "offshore backpacking" and say it involves "reef cruizing" or "island circumnavigating" which is all done in surface swimming for medium or long distances. i'm very keen to get this right and see what i have understood wrong.
on a different subject, it sounds like the Lunocet would be very good for one of my primary activities, subsurfing !
hope to hear from you soon.
delphic regards till then...
good to hear from you mate. yes still subsurfing ! maybe going to Maui again this winter as new things are about to happen with it. i'll keep you posted if you're interested.
i actually relaunched the subsurfing thread a few weeks ago to see if there was any interest here but there was not much. everyone is too excited about wanting to breach now. i should tell them i've been breaching for years and do it in every good sub session. my breach takes a wave to perform, but that actually makes it even more dynamic in feeling.
have you been subsurfing at all ? still interested in it ?
would very much like to hear about this fin when you get a chance. i'm planning some long distance island crossings in Greece and am looking for the right tool for the job.
speak soon mate...
Hello Ted,
we have not had the opportunity to speak yet but i have been in contact with Nico until recently. i have been featured twice in your blog (regarding subsurfing aka underwater bodysurfing and the cycling shoe idea).
anyway, i appologise for the sound of my last post and would much prefer to speak on a more positive note with you.
having worked in development and testing in a few watersports, i'm always quite sceptical of new products until they have been well tested and proven. my comment came after reading the post explaining that it was not very efficient for surface swimming.
i'm not sure i understood well what you mean by hydrotouring in your above post. from reading your blog and site where you mention this activity frequently, i had concluded that the Lunocet was also good for surface swimming (what you call hydrotouring).
you describe it as "offshore backpacking" and say it involves "reef cruizing" or "island circumnavigating" which is all done in surface swimming for medium or long distances. i'm very keen to get this right and see what i have understood wrong.
on a different subject, it sounds like the Lunocet would be very good for one of my primary activities, subsurfing !
hope to hear from you soon.
delphic regards till then...
Last edited:
Its windy here, and cool. They lost my luggage and I stole this computer from a beautiful french girl.
Just to say - my testing of the lunocet up north was intentionally doing not what it's designed for - breaching was out of line in 43 F water. It exceeded my expectations in horizontal swimming - which is really exciting. I think it will work for surface swimming - that is it will be fast - but requires a technique more like a traditional butterfly.
Again - I think Ted has made it clear he built it for Breaching . My first blush impression is that it may me quite good as an across-the-board recreational fin as well.
Just to say - my testing of the lunocet up north was intentionally doing not what it's designed for - breaching was out of line in 43 F water. It exceeded my expectations in horizontal swimming - which is really exciting. I think it will work for surface swimming - that is it will be fast - but requires a technique more like a traditional butterfly.
Again - I think Ted has made it clear he built it for Breaching . My first blush impression is that it may me quite good as an across-the-board recreational fin as well.
Hi Noa...
I was wondering if that was the same Noa... No problem... I am actually very receptive of critique, it's the fuel of evolution.
One thing I'd like to make clear... I've been dreaming of the breach since I was a kid... I will do everything I can to see a human breach completely out of the water. I have been building lunocets for seven years and narrowing in on the solution for gear and technique. I have broken so many footplates, I've lost count, studied the way dolphins, orcas, and whales breach, sat for hours at the aquarium watching tuna swim by... I'm obsessed!
There's a purity about my obsession though... I just want to experience the perfect breach... as do you. I'm not the only one, but even if I was, and there was no market for my lunocet, I would have still spent the hundreds of thousands of dollars developing the perfect lunocet. From the pond behind my shop to the some 10 trailing edge and carbon fiber molds of failed designs, to the buckets of missed mark machined parts... I've got a lot invested in this obsession... and I had to make that money first before I could spend it... hence the bike components business.
After my three little girls, and my beautiful wife... breaching is my life. Anyone who can relate to this is a friend.
I used to wonder, if dolphin's brains are larger than ours, and if they are so intelligent, why do they live so simply without regard to science and technology... maybe it's because their families are always with them and they can breach.
I was wondering if that was the same Noa... No problem... I am actually very receptive of critique, it's the fuel of evolution.
One thing I'd like to make clear... I've been dreaming of the breach since I was a kid... I will do everything I can to see a human breach completely out of the water. I have been building lunocets for seven years and narrowing in on the solution for gear and technique. I have broken so many footplates, I've lost count, studied the way dolphins, orcas, and whales breach, sat for hours at the aquarium watching tuna swim by... I'm obsessed!
There's a purity about my obsession though... I just want to experience the perfect breach... as do you. I'm not the only one, but even if I was, and there was no market for my lunocet, I would have still spent the hundreds of thousands of dollars developing the perfect lunocet. From the pond behind my shop to the some 10 trailing edge and carbon fiber molds of failed designs, to the buckets of missed mark machined parts... I've got a lot invested in this obsession... and I had to make that money first before I could spend it... hence the bike components business.
After my three little girls, and my beautiful wife... breaching is my life. Anyone who can relate to this is a friend.
I used to wonder, if dolphin's brains are larger than ours, and if they are so intelligent, why do they live so simply without regard to science and technology... maybe it's because their families are always with them and they can breach.
Quick obsessive flash - stole it again - beautiful middle-eastern girl this time.
The Lunocet has several virtues with regard to sub-surfing - which I did some of on my way in Sunday. - Sturdy - a big plus when you get thrashed - relatively close to the feet and easy to manage (won't yank you around much in a curl - or be as likely to catch the wave and pass you) - blade changes direction quickly (both maneuver and stroke) and tends to maintain hydrodynamic alignment in a passive state - very good acceleration.
More as I find beautiful girls to steal computer time from
PS - Ted - The lunocet is with me - taped to the inside of my thigh at all times which, as you may imagine, has been difficult at times. It is useless for brushing one's teeth however and, while it does not smell, is not suitable as a change of clothes.
PSS - Add Will Trubridge to the list of those who'll be trying it out.
The Lunocet has several virtues with regard to sub-surfing - which I did some of on my way in Sunday. - Sturdy - a big plus when you get thrashed - relatively close to the feet and easy to manage (won't yank you around much in a curl - or be as likely to catch the wave and pass you) - blade changes direction quickly (both maneuver and stroke) and tends to maintain hydrodynamic alignment in a passive state - very good acceleration.
More as I find beautiful girls to steal computer time from
PS - Ted - The lunocet is with me - taped to the inside of my thigh at all times which, as you may imagine, has been difficult at times. It is useless for brushing one's teeth however and, while it does not smell, is not suitable as a change of clothes.
PSS - Add Will Trubridge to the list of those who'll be trying it out.
Last edited:
Macho as you are, much more will follow :chatup
But now out of curiosity, I must confess I don't know what breaching means. Could someone please explain to me what breaching means? Not necessarily in italian....
Hello Ted,
happy to hear back from you. also happy to see that your persuit is driven by your heart.
like many others here i can totaly relate to your obsession. when i was a child (well, still am at 37, to the great dispair of my mother) i was obsessed with being "the man from Atlanis". not much has changed since then.
one of the dreams i've has for some years now, is to one day be able to surf waves like i see dolphins do. will never have their grace as i'm not built like them, but i'll do my best to approach it. to be gliding at full speed in the wave, surrounded by the liquid's energy and sharing it with my cetacian siblings...
i believe that dolphins and all cetaceans live simply, always have their families with them and can breach BECAUSE of their larger brains.
Hi Fondueset,
great to hear you subsurf ! where do you do it ?
happy to hear back from you. also happy to see that your persuit is driven by your heart.
like many others here i can totaly relate to your obsession. when i was a child (well, still am at 37, to the great dispair of my mother) i was obsessed with being "the man from Atlanis". not much has changed since then.
one of the dreams i've has for some years now, is to one day be able to surf waves like i see dolphins do. will never have their grace as i'm not built like them, but i'll do my best to approach it. to be gliding at full speed in the wave, surrounded by the liquid's energy and sharing it with my cetacian siblings...
i believe that dolphins and all cetaceans live simply, always have their families with them and can breach BECAUSE of their larger brains.
Hi Fondueset,
great to hear you subsurf ! where do you do it ?
Hey Guys - check out my blue hole thread - comms here are twitchy but I've got the first installment of a gallery up on my site and will be writing a full review of the lunocet. Eric F, Laminar, Will T. and I have all spent some solid time with it. I took it to 81 feet, Eric and Will I think both went to around 30m. We've tested horizontal and vertical performance with various swimming techniques on and off the line.
I'm back from Dean's Blue Hole. I tried the lunocet for vertical line diving and for 'fun' diving.
We will be publishing some sort of review with detailed info.
I was able to ascent from 30m with 11 strokes of the lunocet. It requires an enormously high amplitude stroke, much different than the classic monofin stroke. I didn't get a chance to go deep enough to judge the energetic efficiency. However I was not able to swim fast with the device. I was able to breach much higher with a monofin than with the lunocet, despite changing my stroke mechanics. Fondueset has a video of me ascending from 30m with the device.
I tried it for 'fun' diving, but I preferred the monofin for that.
There are numerous simple changes I would make to the device which I think could dramatically improve the performance. In particular I would move the foot attachment point closer to the toes, eliminate the cycling shoes and replace them with streamlined footpockets, and add a torsion spring to cause the blade to instantly return to the neutral position after any displacement.
Generally the device has too much drag, at least with the cycling shoes that were included with it. It is also 3 pounds buoyant which means you must change your weight configuration significantly. The buoyant nature of the fin is excellent for vertical stability during the sink phase, but creates some annoyance during horizontal hangs at recreational depths, when your feet start floating towards the surface, and you end up ascending feet first.
Another benefit of the lunocet is the low mass and zero buoyancy change. However the high drag overwhelms those advantages, in my opinion.
More details in the review.
We will be publishing some sort of review with detailed info.
I was able to ascent from 30m with 11 strokes of the lunocet. It requires an enormously high amplitude stroke, much different than the classic monofin stroke. I didn't get a chance to go deep enough to judge the energetic efficiency. However I was not able to swim fast with the device. I was able to breach much higher with a monofin than with the lunocet, despite changing my stroke mechanics. Fondueset has a video of me ascending from 30m with the device.
I tried it for 'fun' diving, but I preferred the monofin for that.
There are numerous simple changes I would make to the device which I think could dramatically improve the performance. In particular I would move the foot attachment point closer to the toes, eliminate the cycling shoes and replace them with streamlined footpockets, and add a torsion spring to cause the blade to instantly return to the neutral position after any displacement.
Generally the device has too much drag, at least with the cycling shoes that were included with it. It is also 3 pounds buoyant which means you must change your weight configuration significantly. The buoyant nature of the fin is excellent for vertical stability during the sink phase, but creates some annoyance during horizontal hangs at recreational depths, when your feet start floating towards the surface, and you end up ascending feet first.
Another benefit of the lunocet is the low mass and zero buoyancy change. However the high drag overwhelms those advantages, in my opinion.
More details in the review.
I had the toes closer to the leading edge a few years back... one of the complaints we all had was the strain on the ankles. We had very efficient, and very tight lace-up footpockets made from denier and fabricated for us by a shoe designer... nice but took too long to get in and out of. We had great power transfer and the ankles suffered especially when we did tail stands. The solution was to place the center of force closer to the joint at the ankle thereby reducing the leverage or torque on the ankle.
As far as the return mechanism for the foils... there were several solutions over the years, from springs to bungees, to the flex of titanium pitch axles themselves on the ti model... the membrane between the foils has been the most exciting... not only does it provide the springback due to being made of silicone and due to the stretch required to actuate the foils, the best part is the induced camber created when stretched... my guess is that if you found it not returning properly to the nuetral position, you probably had the tension set improperly. I explained to Chris that you had to maintain the tension on the adjustment screws on that one... they have a tendency to loosen thereby dropping tension in the membrane, sorry about that... I resolved it though and also have knurled adjustment screws that allow changing the tension on the fly (as opposed to the allen wrench you needed for that one).
The lack of tension was surely responsible for your lack of speed.
As for the breach, the lunocet is set up perfectly for breaching. It boils down to technique at this point. I will be posting a new page on my website regarding the mechanics of breaching... I will also be providing clinics at Ginnie Springs, Florida soon. I am personally approaching complete air and hope to be there by the spring... one thing I can promise you, the highest breachers in the world will be on lunocets... complete air is within breach.
As far as drag goes, I agree, static drag or glide drag is higher with the lunocet, however, in operation or oscillation, there is considerably more drag with a conventional fin... I concede that this inferiority in glide mode may make dynamic apnea a poor arena for the lunocet but it wasn't designed for that. The lunocet is designed to harness the power of extremely strong legs, anaerobic bursts... the power required for breaching.
As far as the return mechanism for the foils... there were several solutions over the years, from springs to bungees, to the flex of titanium pitch axles themselves on the ti model... the membrane between the foils has been the most exciting... not only does it provide the springback due to being made of silicone and due to the stretch required to actuate the foils, the best part is the induced camber created when stretched... my guess is that if you found it not returning properly to the nuetral position, you probably had the tension set improperly. I explained to Chris that you had to maintain the tension on the adjustment screws on that one... they have a tendency to loosen thereby dropping tension in the membrane, sorry about that... I resolved it though and also have knurled adjustment screws that allow changing the tension on the fly (as opposed to the allen wrench you needed for that one).
The lack of tension was surely responsible for your lack of speed.
As for the breach, the lunocet is set up perfectly for breaching. It boils down to technique at this point. I will be posting a new page on my website regarding the mechanics of breaching... I will also be providing clinics at Ginnie Springs, Florida soon. I am personally approaching complete air and hope to be there by the spring... one thing I can promise you, the highest breachers in the world will be on lunocets... complete air is within breach.
As far as drag goes, I agree, static drag or glide drag is higher with the lunocet, however, in operation or oscillation, there is considerably more drag with a conventional fin... I concede that this inferiority in glide mode may make dynamic apnea a poor arena for the lunocet but it wasn't designed for that. The lunocet is designed to harness the power of extremely strong legs, anaerobic bursts... the power required for breaching.
Hey all - I've an agreement with Stephan to publish the full review here on DB - work in progress. On the above the ankle debacle is just that. Neither I, nor anyone I know, who uses monofins regularly has had ankle issues. It may be a combination of conditioning and the high amp stroke needed for breaching - but I had no ankle issues with the lunocet even when kicking hard enough to rip my mask off and fill my suit through the hood.
I've spoken with Ted and expressed all of our feedback - I'll include his comments in the review - so hang on to your ankles..er...that didn't sound right - uh; your hats.
I've spoken with Ted and expressed all of our feedback - I'll include his comments in the review - so hang on to your ankles..er...that didn't sound right - uh; your hats.