new OMER pneumatic!!!

[peacenluv]

Fondue, I am a spearfishing amateur & enthusiast and I have no way to measure shaft speed etc.

However, I seem to recall having read something about Airbalete 90's initial shaft speed around 24-26 m/sec when charged @ 25 bar in the Italian mag 'PescaSub' or 'Pesca in Apnea'. Compared to the alleged (info Maori website) 35m/sec for a Mamba 90 are you impressed?

Does anyone have actual info about this? I was thinking about getting an airbalete 110, but if the shaft speed is really so much slower, I'm gonna get myself another stealth 110 mamba or kara-yo.

Anyone know where I can get a good deal on the Stealth 110? Is it still available? Don't see it on deeperblue store or subprof.

 

[DivingDane]

Ulysses, very interesting info, i wonder what the speed difference would be if the Airballette was tested at max pressure of 30bar would probably bring the speed a fair bit closer to the mamba kit i would imagine. i woul also have to say that i really dont think outrite power is as important as accuracy, stability in water and reduced recoil, which i think the Airballete has in spades over any other production pneumatic in the market, "ergonomic" or not for a persons hand the grip is anatomically more correct than other brands and also places the hand up high reducing kick when fired and aids in line of sight firing. whioch as far as i am aware no other pneumatic offers at the moment. but willing to be proven wrong.

i agree that a dry barrel system could have been fun but the vast majority of pneumatic buyers (particularly in Australia) buy pneumatics because they can abuse them more than rubber guns which i know a dry barrel gun requires a more gentle looked after approach.

my 2c worth

DD

will have the gun in the water again tomorrow provided the wind holds off.

 

[ulysses]

Anyone know where I can get a good deal on the Stealth 110? Is it still available? Don't see it on deeperblue store or subprof.

Former Sporasub Stealth is nowadays sold as Mares Spark mimetic but 100% the same gun.

 

[ulysses]

Dane,

the dry barrel concepts is about increased power output by equal base load, e.g., similar performance of 110 standard wet barrel Stealth @ 35bar and dry barrel Stealth @ 25 bar. IMO the efficiency increase is less than a base load difference of 10 bar, but it is there.

As to stability and recoil: 110 dry barrel Stealths have near to neutral buoyancy when loaded with the shortest possible 7mm shafts and very good balance (i.e. they stay almost parallel in the water if I let go and drift like leave) and there is no noticeable recoil.

Also in these two aspects Airbalete is not an advance which I find strange if not irritating because the hydroformed barrel should have allowed to get buoyancy and balance right, innit?

Cheers, ulysses

 

[peacenluv]

Former Sporasub Stealth is nowadays sold as Mares Spark mimetic but 100% the same gun.

Thanks for the info. I was in love with my Stealth 110 mamba but just lost it last month. But thought I'd go for the Airbablete to replace. But now, I'm thinking probably should get both to compare.

Do you know where I can get the Mares Spark 110 for a fair price? Thanks boss.

 

[ulysses]

I have only the very best experience with chasse sous marine.net, achat vente d'équipement et matériel de chasse sous-marine They do the Airbalete but currently do not stock Sparks. If I were you, I'd send Laurent an e-mail and ask whether he can get you a 110 Spark & deliver to Taiwan. Also when buying from CSM you will not be paying value added tax (19.6% TVA) which can an issue with Italian shops (20% IVA).

In Italy you have, eg, scubazar, acquasport, landisport. They all do Mares Stealth/Sparks. In a shop in Italy I would normally buy a Stealth/Spark 110 for a price around / below €100, but buying online makes bargaining a bit more difficult.

Cheers, ulysses

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

Here are several European websites that are selling the new Omer Airbalete for around $400! http://www.twenga.it/search.php?q=airbalete
So the local US price of $600 to $700 seems like a rip-off!!

Pardon my indiscretion but if it was as easy as you say most likely I wouldn’t have a job and there would be no point for companies to appoint distributors like us. Here’s a case (for American potential customers), I’ll play the devil’s advocate:
1. Assuming I could order the gun from there because I can’t (the retail store has an agreement with the manufacturer not to ship to US and other countries undermining the mfg where they have a distributor), what would be the advantage and savings? Here’s what I think:

The gun on the website sells for 324-354Euro. The current exchange rate as per today’s WSJ is $1.425, but you will not get this rate when you change , you’d get a bank rate exchange because banks charge fees when they do a service of exchanging CC transactions or Int. bank transfers ($50 normal wire fees), typically 5pts or more on the exchange. So just for the sake of the argument let’s assume the great rate you’d get today $1.45 X 324 = $470.00-513 + shipping.
Now I have to ship it here, and most e-commerce sites don’t risk losing your expensive trans-Atlantic order and have to chase down a Govt. entity like the Post Office to recover the insurance value (keep in mind US Postal Insurance losses take 6months or more to recover) not to mention tracking is hard between most countries postal systems. So my best guess is shipping is going to cost you $50-100 by AIR for a courier like UPS, fedEx or DHL to the US (insured reliable service) where ever it is you live. Your gun lands at US $520-570 to $563-613 depending on the size. This is a rough estimate in my experience importing for 12 yrs.

2. The other option is a US e-commerce dealer and just for the sake of citing examples I will mention two that offer very good service and same day shipping http://www.scubasworld.com/proddetail.php?prod=airbalete&cat=76 or http://www.austinsdiving.com/products.php?cat=75 Look at their prices $557-, a whopping $35.00 potential difference.
3. When push comes to shove and you call them because you are in the US and you have a question, warranty return, size exchange, problem or concern you want to speak to a fellow American who can give you accurate delivery time and address any other issues you may have, and you tell them you’re on the fence about it because of the price… it’s even likely they’ll offer you an extra 10% just not to lose the deal. It just to do with supply and demand, competition, and if they’re shrewd and want to make the sale you have the upper hand and get just as good of a deal here.

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

Fondue, I am a spearfishing amateur & enthusiast and I have no way to measure shaft speed etc.

However, I seem to recall having read something about Airbalete 90's initial shaft speed around 24-26 m/sec when charged @ 25 bar in the Italian mag 'PescaSub' or 'Pesca in Apnea'. Compared to the alleged (info Maori website) 35m/sec for a Mamba 90 are you impressed?

Just curious about one thing Ulysses, and for the record I work with Omersub Spa so keep my vested interest in mind.

Have you ever bought or tried an AIRbalete?

Are you advocating to buy a Mares Spark and modify it with a third party kit to increase performance? This offers higher performance than the AIrbalete?

I suggest you try both guns first and make a determination for yourself without speculative 2nd hand reports.

 

[Fondueset]

I wanted to mention that some of the youtube videos of this gun (90cm) have it shooting accurately with good penetration to 4.10 meters at 14 bar - at which pressure it can be loaded by one gloved hand.

I'm quite sure my cyrano 970 could not match that performance out of the box.

(dammit - I gotta get away from this thread - it's making my bank account hurt)

 

[panzerkrafft]

Mark!!

Do you know of any website that shows a picture of the airbalete spear??

I want to see how the line is connected with the spear!

didnt even find on omersub homepage!



i also would like to se the whole gun in close up on that side where the line is winded on the line release

any tips ,,or perhaps you could post some pictures

panzerkrafft

 

[Fondueset]

Panzer - all pneumatics use basically the same setup. There is a slide ring which is stopped by the butt of the shaft. These are normally threaded onto the base of the shaft and are machined down to fit into the cup atop the piston which slides in the barrel. There are variations in the shape and dimensions of these but the principal is the same for all pneumatics. You can find schematics for the various guns online and use these to educate yourself regarding the operating principals of these guns.

To make your own shafts will require access to the proper hardness of steel - the exact dimensions of shaft diameter and of the end cap on the spear.

The omer catalog has close photographs of all these components for the airbalete and can be downloaded from their site. You will find a close up of the slide-ring and shaft end-cap on page 10

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

Does someone know of any video which shows the complete loading process of the airbalete.

Pneumatics are complete unknown to me.

So i have som basic questions that i think some of you easely could answer.

1: do you have to use the pump each time when reloading the gun?
(I have seen videos of some smaller guns that you just press the spear in the barrel then finished)

2:is there any pressure meter on the guns or do you count the strokes and in that way get a clue about the pressure

3: do you have the pump hanging on your bouy or do you carry it in you belt?

4: can someone estimate the time it takes to load the airbalete
( grabbing the spear-ready to run)

best regards

Hi, didn't look if anyone answered you yet.
1. No. A pneumatic is like a bicycle tire, if you ride a lot then you check the pressure every once in a while and pump it back up if it gets low.

2. Good question. Most people go by feel when drawing the spear back into the barrel. If it feels as if the loading effort is the same as when you had it where you liked it you've pumped it up enough. Like squeezing a bike tire after pumping rather than looking at the gauge. Gauges will be available for pneumatics soon.

3. You leave it at home, if you dive every day and shoot often you might put more air in it every few weeks.

4. about as long as it took to type this, 3 seconds. Add 5-10 seconds to string it depending on how accustomed to it you are.

 

[panzerkrafft]

Ok thats what i like to hear...Have seen some pictures of weird guns where the line is tied at the front of the spear.

So... then you can tie a symetric loop at the slide ring and the spear behaves exactly as a slinggun?

How would you owner describe the power/speed of the airbalete 90 .

similar to 80/90 cm slinggun with single 16mm / single 20mm more or less
power???

I already got thoose former questions answered but thank anyhow mark

 

[foxfish]

The home made spear comes up quite often, to be honest I rarely read the threads because it appears to be far to difficult to obtain anything like the mass produced spears that are available.
I think the main problem lies in obtaining suitably treated stainless steel, normal off the shelf ss will not have the tensile strength & flexibility to match the specialist material used by the big boys. (or something like that)
You can however adapt a band gun spear to fit an air gun if you can find one long enough?

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

has anyone compared the airbalete to a mamba gun of same length? does it have the same KABOOOOMMM of the mamba?

Here is the difference, aside from what the others mentioned. The AIRbalete is still a wet pneumatic okay. However nothing else is the same.

Let's take the Mares Spark formerly knows as Sporasub Stealth, Stens, and the Cyrano. There are very few differences from a production stand point in these guns.

The Cyrano and the Spark/Stealth have 11mm barrels and they have a muzzle produced for the smaller diameter tube and piston, stoppers, sleeves and what have you.

The barrels are entirely the same, the Cyrano has a rubberized and plastic sheath that goes over the Sten barrel and the handle is blue. The Spark is basically a cheaper version of the Cyrano without the fluff in the muzzle and the barrel is the Sten, the handle is white. The prices change. They are great reliable guns.

The Omer AIrbalete does not have a proven track record like the Mares's, this is true and time will tell. So far so good. Cost of innovation.

There is nothing in the AIRbalete that is produced with similar parts to other pneumatics. The only similarity is they use pressurized air, that's the same.

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

You get a lot more bang for the buck with a tovarich or mamba kitted Asso, Sten, Stealth, etc: in terms of absolute performance and value for money.

As with many Omer gear: You pay for glossy advertising, not innovation. After the advent of dry-barrel systems, the Airbalete is a silly 'back to the future' kind of concept.

Cheers, ulysses

That is not correct information.

 

[panzerkrafft]

foxfish...know what you meen..

problem is im living in sweden ..have to travel 1500km to buy guns and spears so it s just a good thing if you could make your own spears if you in sometime ran out of them! its not that fun to buy several spears for approx 300$ at the same time

if i could buy them at home i would never bother making own

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

(1) Seal wear? Leaks around the trigger? I routinely replace oil / o-rings every 3-4 years. Never had leaking / wear issues during this maintenance interval.

(2) Says who? IMO SAE 5-10 forkoil is still state of the art.

(3) What disadvantages? I doubt it's more performing than a traditional wet barrel airgun, e.g. less piston travel per overall length.

(4) This is a very subjective matter. IMHO 'ergonomic' handle design is somewhat of misnomer with any out of the box handle. Either it is made for your hand or it is not ergonomic. Play with Utileplast/Polymorph or epoxy putty and you will understand what the anatomy of your hand requires

Cheers, ulysses

1. Wow, you have an excellent track record. Maybe high up in the mountains of Zurich or in the fresh water of the Zurichsee the harshness of the salt water environment on seals and o-rings and movable parts eludes you

2. What's wrong with not having oil? For one I've done repair jobs on standard pneumatics for 12 years and I always seem to spill oil somewhere but I could just be messy. I could also do without it and that is a nice feature of the AIRbalete.

3. Don't know where to start here....Airguns that are not maintained meticulously like you do with yours, in the sun, the heat, the salt and from pressure expansion/settling and rigors of a corrosive environment wear out parts and seals. There is also a vulnerable area in pneumatics, the H/L pressure switch in the handle you didn't mention. By removing the seals from the handle area for the trigger, and from the H/Low pressure port in the handle you have 0 probability of leaks from those areas.
- when you forse yourself to go a step further in production and replace the universal "rubber" o-rings with modern silicone replacements and teflonized seals you not only improve the life of the seals, you also reduce friction between the moving parts, which not only aids in reducing wear and tear, but less friction makes it easier to load and push the piston out faster!!!!

4. About that handle :head Not many people are going to be casting their own handles out there like you described. I speak from a market pespective.
What they like on the other hand is a more comfortable grip that gives them more control over the manueverability of their weapon. By offering three solutions, a neutral grip, a rightie and a leftie you have offered "more" ergonomical choices than the standard production currently offers the market.

 

[panzerkrafft]

mark!! (or anyone)

The only "real"speargun i owned is my seatec trb 77cm single 16mm sling!

What do you think.......does the airbalete 90cm have more or less
power/speed/range

Even better if someone not just think ...but know for sure!!!!

 

[ulysses]

Just curious about one thing Ulysses, and for the record I work with Omersub Spa so keep my vested interest in mind.

Have you ever bought or tried an AIRbalete?

Are you advocating to buy a Mares Spark and modify it with a third party kit to increase performance? This offers higher performance than the AIrbalete?

I suggest you try both guns first and make a determination for yourself without speculative 2nd hand reports.

I have Mambas & kitted Stealths to compare with my Airbalete 90.

Cheers, ulysses