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new OMER pneumatic!!!

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
We have already had nice slim airguns, Technisub made the "Jeans" and "Grinta" guns that had 30 mm diameter air tanks, otherwise they were similar to the usual rear handle guns (most of which now have 40 mm diameter air tanks). Of course they never floated after shooting them, due to insufficient water displacement for their weight, even though the guns were relatively light. A higher compression ratio (less air tank volume) meant that they were not as powerful as the fatter tank guns like the "Sten".

If you superimpose the rear of your pneumatic gun over your target while long shot sighting and it is in the linear trajectory shooting zone then you will hit your target where you aim at it (provided the shaft is nice and straight). For tracking "from the hip" shots you are mentally intersecting the axial line of the gun and tip with your direct visual eyeline on the fish, you can see where the tip is pointing because the gun is angled towards the target and viewed from the side. When the convergent lines look about right your brain automatically pulls the trigger as success comes from long term practice, especially with using the same gun.

Actually the pneumatic guns that we have today are the product of an evolution that has gone through the designs that you are talking about, it is not that manufacturers are not thinking outside the square, they have already been there. Why most guns look like variations on the "Sten" is that the other designs could not compete in terms of their construction costs and the light weight of a gun that can still use up to 40 atm of air pressure. All the early pneumatic spearguns were home-made, so if you really want something like this separate barrel gun then you either have to make it yourself or get someone to make if for you. The barrel has to be well secured to the tank lest it be torn off during gun handling, so it needs to be a rugged construction.

In Russia and the Ukraine there is a long tradition of speargun "gunsmithing", classed as "home-made" guns, which rival the factory production guns made over there (a cynic may say that would not be too difficult due to the often chequered history of the latter!). So if you want a "barrel on top" model made try looking over there, however the "evolutionary wheel" is at work there too and their own guns are starting to look very much like our guns.
 
Hey Pete, you are obviously into you airguns & have some very interesting knowledge but are you saying you think that the air guns that are presently being mass produced are as good as they need to be?
Dont you think there is potential for new material & design?
Maybe some form of plastic or carbon that can withstand the working pressures but is lighter or even buoyant?
90cm airguns that are popular where I live, they have more power than a 90 band gun but are very poorly balanced. Most owners try to mod there guns with dry barrel systems & attach cork or other floating material to the muzzle.
I think omer have at least made an effort to go froward, lets hope they have managed to do that?
I think it would be nice to buy a well balanced, easy to aim gun with adjustable trigger & a dry barrel straight from the shelf?
 
I'm nowhere near as technical as Dave, Pete and Fox, but as a "gossip rat" I can tell you there's a well known manufacturer of carbon gear that is already reasoning on a new farter* with carbon barell in development.
Before you ask me for more details, there is no such thing as "more details". But the manufacturer said it clear and open that he's working on this project...
the stage is just "looking out wether how's it feasable at reasonable costs or not"...

*farter=oleopneumatic speargun ;-)
 
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I think it would be nice to buy a well balanced, easy to aim gun with adjustable trigger & a dry barrel straight from the shelf?


That would be the perfect air gun to say the least, now imagine some or most of these systems employed on commercial markets mass produced guns such as mares cyrano,sten, stealth, seac assos and cressis SL's.

Matter of the fact is that I don't believe that it would be in these companies best interest to make such options for their guns perhaps it would be a marketing thing. I truly don't know. Look a the mamba guns how hard is it to get them? (for some 1 who lives in the us) not hell hard but hey you can just go to a dive store and actually pick the best product that comes to mind because they probably wont have it.
 
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I'm nowhere near as technical as Dave, Pete and Fox, but as a "gossip rat" I can tell you there's a well known manufacturer of carbon gear that is already reasoning on a new farter* with carbon barell in development.
Before you ask me for more details, there is no such thing as "more details". But the manufacturer said it clear and open that he's working on this project...
the stage is just "looking out wether how's it feasable at reasonable costs or not"...

*farter=oleopneumatic speargun ;-)


Spago, your'e a work of artrofl...BTW I stopped waiting for the omer and got me a used 110 cyrannos....gotta love them farters!...hopefully the wait for this new gun will not be so long!
 
ahaha steel you know what I was going to buy a cyrano 110 from some guy in hialeah, pero no me gusto how it looked. The handle seemed loose and he claimed that it was new, the gun still had the little grease from the handle to the barrel yet, the handle wanted to break off. What a P.O.S i think i would go with the eye catching hayaarisub slimline 120 for my next gun. Got to love the beauty of a custom made wood gun :inlove i been eying this gun for far to long.

As far as the airbalete the wife gave me her opinion and she did not like it lol, so she kinda snapped me back to reality and put me back in what i think is the right path. :chatup
 
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Hey Pete, you are obviously into you airguns & have some very interesting knowledge but are you saying you think that the air guns that are presently being mass produced are as good as they need to be?
Dont you think there is potential for new material & design?
Maybe some form of plastic or carbon that can withstand the working pressures but is lighter or even buoyant?
90cm airguns that are popular where I live, they have more power than a 90 band gun but are very poorly balanced. Most owners try to mod there guns with dry barrel systems & attach cork or other floating material to the muzzle.
I think omer have at least made an effort to go froward, lets hope they have managed to do that?
I think it would be nice to buy a well balanced, easy to aim gun with adjustable trigger & a dry barrel straight from the shelf?
I could not rule out any radical developments, however the current rear handle gun is about as good as you are going to get in that type of speargun, they have been making it in one form or another for over 40 years, although incremental improvements are always possible. I remember when the Mares "Sten" first came out, it was great to have a pneumatic gun that did not sink like a stone. Another floater was the Mordem "Saturno", but they were not widely available like the "Sten" was. Up until then the must have gun was the Mares "Titan" which had a fat diameter air tank, it was still a sinker, but had a greater reservoir volume, it being located both behind and in front of the central handle. If you think the "Sten" type guns are poorly balanced, try swimming with one of its predecessors, they may have centre grip handles, but they are heavy to carry during a long dive.

The use of carbon fibre tank tubes is problematic, pressure vessels undergo expansion and contraction cycles, you do not see it, but that is what happens every time you load and then shoot your pneumatic speargun. Aluminium (or titanium) tubing can cope with this, but I am not sure of carbon fibre tubing. One crack and the air pressure will be gone! Filament reinforced metal tanks are used for extreme high pressure vessels as the wound on synthetic material fibres run circumferentially, which is in the direction of greatest stress. If any cylindrical tank blows then it will split along its length as the circumferential elements give up first. I am not talking about high air pressure induced failures, but the response after the gun has been accidentally clonked hard against something sharp like a rock. Aluminium tubes dent, but at least the gun does not blow up!

The next steps in pneumatic spearguns, assuming we do not go back to mid-handles, will be dry barrels once the patent protection runs out. I am pretty sure that is why you do not see them coming from the mainstream manufacturers like Mares, Cressi-Sub, Omer, Tigullio, Asso-Sub, etc. Actually a dry barrel system is best on a 13 mm dia. barrel as you get more force for a given chamber pressure. The reason for the 11 mm dia. barrel was to reduce the water volume when shooting a slim shaft as this minimised hydrobraking compared to the same shaft being shot out of a 13 mm dia. barrel. If the barrel is going to be dry then why not use the bigger diameter barrel? The key thing is to have the sealing line slide system as small in diameter as possible, otherwise it adds to shaft hydrodynamic drag which will take away some of the advantages in using the dry barrel system in the first place. Another improvement will be in muzzle shock absorbers to try and eliminate piston impact noise by letting the piston decelerate over a slightly longer distance, however it has to get rid of the spear tail first or it will slow the shaft down as well. Pressurised shock absorbers are a possibility, someone already has a patent on it. Hydraulic shock absorbers are already in use, they go back a long way to the Pirelli "Aries", an early Italian full length concentric reservoir pneumatic speargun.

The other developmental area could be hydropneumatic guns, right now they are a cottage industry, only made by specialist manufacturers in the former Soviet Union countries. They received a bad press in the past because they suffered badly from internal corrosion. Modern designs and better materials can overcome this by making the guns very easy to purge with freshwater after a dive. Not as efficient as pneumatic spearguns, they have the advantage of next to no shooting noise and can be cocked in incremental stages using a non-return pumping action. Current models need bigger air tanks to make them floaters and injection moulded handles and other internal components to further reduce their weight. A jug of water down the barrel and you can use the gun's pumping action to clean it out, the old guns never did that or their owners never thought to do it, but you need a gun with a hydraulic trigger valve operation as that allows water to pass right through the gun and exit out the rear near the grip handle.

About 15 years ago some industry people were saying the pneumatic speargun was finished, the user base was shrinking and a lot of development money was going into the band gun. Then the "Cyrano" got the pneumatic gun back on track as it shoots "speed spears"; so yes, it is now about time we saw something new again to create a bit of excitement and interest. If nothing else the "Airbalete" should do that, however it may not be that big an improvement. The discontinued Omer "Skorpion" was not a big success, it was a narrow snout gun taking that concept further than the "Cyrano" did, but that conical nosed tank only took buoyancy away from the front of the gun and removed air reservoir capacity.

If you want more flotation on your Cyrano/Sten then why not try a neoprene sleeve on it? At one time Mares had optional neoprene sleeves for their "Competition Line" guns, which was the 1987 revamp of the "Sten" with the bright lime green handle cover.
 
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Thanks for you input Pete interesting opinions although I know a few people who might disagree with your piston size views.
I like the neoprene idea but I think I might of passed that stage - the gun in my avatar is my mamba 90!
 
You have to cut the shaft just right to balance your pneumatic. That is the way to do it. Neoprene causes too much drag. I agree with the piston size.
 
I don’t know if it matters to any of you, but I noticed another possibly minus for the new gun. I use pneumatic spear guns exclusively. And I have rebuilt them all for a better performance I can tell that the actual working distance of a piston is a lot longer on the older pneumatics. So by doing some of the necessary improvements on existing spear guns they might be just as powerful as the new one only because of the wasted space in handle and beginning of the barrel.
Then again I would prefer to buy my guns ready to fire without a need to be rebuilt!
 
I speak several languages and I am active member on European forums. First of all every Italian gun is built the same most parts are identical. According to measurements done in Russia to increase efficiency you need to drill another hole in the barrel for the piston right before the little lip that holds piston in place towards the butt of the gun also you drill multiple holes for the airflow in the plastic peace (the same plastic peace where power reducer is supposed to be) Also you increase ports for the water flow at the muzzle. Also exchange existing oil with motorcycle shock oil. Of course original shaft is not too streamlined and you should replace it with spring steel shaft with a single barb as well as line retainer originally is too big (Rob Allen) stainless slide ring fits nicely. And of course if you would like to top this out replace rope with 200Lb mono line. This is how I have my guns rigged, works like a charm.
 
The Mares and Cressi-Sub rear handle pneumatic spearguns are also sold in single power versions without the partitioning bulkhead system fitted and with the cursor control gate blanked off leaving only a rectangular bump where it would normally be located. So if you want to eliminate the throttling effect of the cursor controlled "high-low" power port in the "pre-chamber" bulkhead then just buy one of those handles and throw the bulkhead away. The small pistol sized versions of the guns (42 cm) are only single power, so you can use the handle taken from one of those, they are identical in all other respects. As to drilling additional air flow augmentation holes in the inner barrel rearwards of the piston seal position when the gun is cocked just be aware that the inner barrel is a structural element, so you need to know what you can get away with in terms of further ventilating this area. Doing so will void any manufacturer's warranty, although this usually only applies to the first year of ownership.

The Omer "Airbalete" does not have a bulkhead partitioning system, the rear tank bulkhead serves only to isolate the flooding rear handle section. Attached are photos of a GSD "Punto"; same idea, different era!
 

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Regarding modifying piston barrel here is before and after picture.
 

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Scubazar has the Omer Airbalete listed as starting from 290 Euro for the 80 cm model, 20 Euro extra for the 90 cm, 30 Euro extra for the 100 cm and 50 Euro extra for the 110 cm. They state that the spearguns will be available from Tuesday March 17, 2009. No doubt the product will be available outside Italy slightly later. The price of the guns includes the reel, so you need to take that into account when comparing them with other pneumatic speargun prices.
 
Popgun Pete, where in aus are you based??? we should be having our shipment of Airballettes in the next 4 weeks i think.

are you based in a store (commercial) or private pneumatic guru?

DD
 
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