[News] Famed Magician In Freediving World Record Stunt

[Stavros]

Interesting comment about the black out.

...and the spectular blackout will make it look very real and dangerous -- probably creating a massive shock reaction which would increase interest in future attempts -- increasing funding, sponsorship and TV interest in future attempts....

In this scenario there is little reason to do an illusion....

Such an ending would definately increase interest in reality shows and circus performances but what will it do to the image of freediving in general? (since Mr Blain has chosen to put his stunt in the same basket as any other freediving performance by comparing it to the current ST record.)

This will definately put freediving in the extreme and unsafe sports categories in most viewers' minds. Is that what we should consider good publicity for our sport? I can only think of the responce of the average middle aged parents when their children of 16-18 say they want to try freediving, after they have seen a couple of stunts like that.

I am not saying that the current view the world has of freediving (as far as safety goes) is the same as golf but I think we could do without such publicity.

Hope everything turns out well ...

Stavros Kastrinakis

 

[Stephan Whelan]

This will definately put freediving in the extreme and unsafe sports categories in most viewers' minds.

Interesting thought.

My question would be - does David Blaine doing a stunt involving freediving make it an extreme/unsafe sport anyway. Is that an association people might make whether he blacks out/samba's/completes the static attempt?

 

[Stavros]

Well I guess if he comes out in 9:01 minutes with a broad smile on his face it could put the message accross that "heiii this breath holding is sorta fun"
But somehow I just do not think thats how things will turn out...

(anyway if this guy is doing 6:58 now with one week to go there is no way he can increase -or hope to increase- his performance by 2 minutes in 7 days )

Stavros Kastrinakis

 

[Stavros]

Quick note - I have been having a look at several forums and news sites relating to this Blaine stunt over the last couple of days and apparently most people think this guy is just stupid and his stunts are just lame (note he is hardly known in our parts of the wood - Greece so I had barely heard of him before) ... I think in the end of the day we might be the only ones (DB I mean) who have been giving this so much thought -probably because he threw his ball in our alley and we will have none of that

Stavros Kastrinakis

 

[trux]

... anyway if this guy is doing 6:58 now with one week to go there is no way he can increase -or hope to increase- his performance by 2 minutes in 7 days ...

I think he can. There are several factors that will increase the time considerably:

1. The 7 days long stay under water may help a lot (though that's just a speculation)
2. He will breath pressurized air (at least so I understood it) and since there are no judges, we cannot know if it is pure air, or an O2 enriched mixture. Even if it is pure air, when he breathes up under water slightly above the athmospheic pressure, the conditions are not comparable to a normal apnea with surface breath up
3. Fasting several days slowing his metabolism
4. (possible) hypothermia will add to slow the metabolishm too
5. He can go over the limit - he does not need to care about surfacing protocol, Samba, or blackout. Quite in contrary - he needs a big final drama

 

[Haydn]

Unless he cheats! Although we still dont know the beneficial effects of breathing compressed air at 2 meters for a week. If this adds 10% plus a week fasting adds 10% he can still get there. The public will not see these techniques as forbidden. Fasting certainly isnt and as long as the air isnt enhanced I cant see that is wrong either.

Will David remain blacked out and stay under until xxxx time? Is that safe? I believe there is a margin of safety beyond blackout. Trying it on purpose will be fantastic and argumentative. A lot of kids are going to try it in the bath.

 

[Stavros]

I think he can. There are several factors that will increase the time considerably:

1. The 7 days long stay under water may help a lot (though that's just a speculation)
2. He will breath pressurized air (at least so I understood it) and since there are no judges, we cannot know if it is pure air, or an O2 enriched mixture. Even if it is pure air, when he breathes up under water slightly above the athmospheic pressure, the conditions are not comparable to a normal apnea with surface breath up
3. Fasting several days slowing his metabolism
4. (possible) hypothermia will add to slow the metabolishm too
5. He can go over the limit - he does not need to care about surfacing protocol, Samba, or blackout. Quite in contrary - he needs a big final drama

These arguments are very true but we do not know under what conditions he has done his "6:58" and I would doubt its under what we consider standard static training routine. I would think it is quite likely that some of the 5 factors you mention above (2, 4 and 5 for example) are already in play in the 6:58.

SK

 

[trux]

... Fasting certainly isnt and as long as the air isnt enhanced I cant see that is wrong either.

Hmm, personally, I do not find it OK at all (I do not mean the fasting, but the pressurized air). I think it can give a significant advantage. Try to come to any freediving competion with a tank and make your breath-up on the pool bottom - I doubt the judges would agree.

 

[Jorg]

two years ago there was a guy from here doing a worldrecord staying underwater for also around 7 days (If I remember correctly, anyway, it was loooong). He was in a 2 meter deep pool. And after these days he still had to decompress very slowly the last few hours. 7 days in 1.2 bar pressure... So David spending 7 days at 2 meters, and then going for a max attempt and suddenly surfacing.... hmmm maybe we get a big samba, but not from hypoxia...

 

[trux]

Yes, I agree, and I think Blaine and his advisors are not completely stupid, so must be aware of it too. That's why it is sure he cannot breath regular air, but rather another gas mixture. Though, if he breathed pure O2 for 7 days, it could be fatal too, so it must be a different mixture. Very likely, they'll change the mixture gradually during the attempt, cleaning him the last few hours with a Nitrogene-free and Oxygene-rich mixture.

 

[naiad]

I am very concerned about the effect a stunt like this will have on the freediving world. We'll have to wait and see...

Just my opinion...

Lucia

 

[Fondueset]

Other than generating some interest - I don't think it'll have much of an effect at all on Freediving. He's allready been talking about how holding your breath is dangerous - I'm sure there will be more on the subject in order to keep kids from 'trying this at home'. All of which amounts to more public education and publicity - for Blaine and freediving. Even the mention of the "elite Freediving Team' he's training with is a good thing.

On another note - have you checked out the great retro posters on his site?

 

[Haydn]

Tank breathing. Aida rules state specifically that breathing O2 or O enriched air IS forbidden. Also other performance enhancing products MAY be fordidden. I assume the deciding factor must be in the judges being convinced the mixture in the tank is not enriched air and that breathing at 2 meters does not enhance the performance. These will be unknowns as far as the judges are concerned, just as music can be thought of as performance enhancing. I believe Aida should be more definitive in their ruling as and when each new idea is promoted. They can easily forbid tank breathing as it could fall into a performance enhancing product (unless proven one way or another) but nor breathing at depth or fasting which are both techniques. We are generally free to choose our equipment, all of which we choose because we think it will ehance our performance. What about Herberts equalising bladder?

 

[dannybuoy]

On Dutch TV there was an item about this stunt. Looked like they borowed it from a US station. In it, Mr. Blaine mentioned he trained for six hours every day, holding his breath 48 minutes out of every hour. If the promotional imagery is anything to go by, he's going to be tied up by his hands and feet in the bubble.

 

[smellsfishy]

The following is an excerpt from an email from Kirk to the PFI mailing list:

'David Blaine; Drowned Alive'
Now we arrive at the 'David Blaine; Drowned Alive' event in New York. Can't say it hasn't been without some serious consideration that 'DROWNED ALIVE' brings with it. Especially to a company and team that has always focused on the safety of our sport. But in the end, what better team to provide training and safety then us is what we believe. Regardless of the outcome of David's attempt, smiling or blue lipped and convulsing, Team PFI will perform its duty and help bring OUR view of the sport of freediving, regardless of what David and ABC Hollywood it into. Are we going to take some razing from our peers? Of course and we know this, but if you could only know the story behind the story and the amazing successes we've seen in training you'd be amazed. Will we have learned anything from this? MORE THAN YOU CAN BELIEVE! He's not always a magician and this event and its finally will prove he's a man who puts his mind to achieving what most people believe impossible and succeeds or fails, but never not believes in himself and his abilities. Something we can relate too.

 

[efattah]

The latest news in Vancouver is that David Blaine has reached the mid 7 minute mark in his static training.

If this attempt were going to be a 100% illusion, then there would be no reason at all for any painful static training. Just edit the video, make it appear as though he was underwater, when in fact he was taking breaths every few seconds. Then why bother with the training? Why train for an illusion?

I also don't buy Haydn's concept that if AIDA isn't there, it must be a deception. Why has Sebastien Murat never invited AIDA to his amazing dives? Are they all illusions? Murat himself never even claimed any of his depths, it was always outsiders bringing the news.

Some people just don't care about AIDA. If that is their opinion, then so be it.

The World Static Apnea contest of Monaco was, in the end, NOT an AIDA competition. Several critical rules were not followed. Why? Because our breath-holds were illusions? I was there, I did my statics, and I can say that they were painful and not illusions, and AIDA wasn't there, nor was any other organization. The organizers didn't care if AIDA was there or not, because the event was way bigger than AIDA, with huge media, the Royal Family, big sponsors...

Just because someone doesn't invite AIDA, it doesn't mean anything.

 

[Walrus]

If AIDA isn't there, it doesn't have to be a deception, but certainly makes the rules or lack thereof a lot easier. It basically gives you the freedom to do or claim anything you want. Like someone already pointed out, a samba or a 2 minute blackout would not disqualify you. So your only real fear of failure is permanent brain damage or death.
Eric you said yourself there was something funny about the way the Monaco comeptition was organised. Why was Tom Sietas not there when AIDA international proved him inocent of the drug charges ? Regarding Seb's dives he has actually had a lot of Media coverage in Australia that you guys don't know about. One such attempt in 2002 to break the world dynamic record. He swam 192m and was reported by the media to have "broken the world record". Two finswimming officials that I know were there to officiate a seperate finswimming record - the 50m sprint breathold. They watched his 192m swim and told me he had a "epeleptic seizure" at the end of the swim and was grabbed by safety divers to keep his airway out of the water. (They had never seen a blackout or a samba before.)
Then there is Patrick Musimu's dive.......


Cheers,
Wal

 

[Mullins]

If this attempt were going to be a 100% illusion, then there would be no reason at all for any painful static training.

If this attempt were going to be 100% illusion, then presumably the claims to have reached 7 mins in traing would also be illusory. They would certainly be much easier to fake than the attempt itself - all you have to do is say "I reached 7 mins yesterday during training."

If I was going to fake a record attempt I would certainly be inclined to lend authenticity to the proceedings by saying "training for this event has been really hard, but I'm up to 8:30 so far... with a bit of luck and a lot of dedication I may just make it to 9:00" etc etc...

Anyway, pretty much all such stunts I've seen performed for the benefit of television have not come anywhere near living up to the hype that preceded them, for various reasons. It's just the nature of the TV industry - if you have nothing in particular to sell, sell it really hard until people tune in to watch your nothing...

It's a bit of a pity really, because I suspect there are plenty of people out there capable of doing over 9 mins. Static ability seems to be largely predetermined by genetics. Ok, I know lots of you will argue that static performance can be changed dramatically by training adaptations, but from what I've seen either somebody is good at statics or they aren't. Somebody who regularly blacks out at 5min may increase their max to, say, 7 mins with training. Pretty impressive adaptation there. But their mate who does 7 min pretty much as soon as he takes up the sport - well, he's going to be 2 mins ahead from the start and damn near impossible to beat if he also trains consistently. I hate to say it, but I think that genetic predisposition is pretty much impossible to overcome in this discipline given how wide the initial gap between individuals tends to be.

So, no particular reason Blaine couldn't do 9 mins. However, given that it's a TV stunt and unlikely to do what it says on the label, I doubt it will live up to all the airtime we are giving it.

 

[Walrus]

If we wanted freediving to be taken seriously as a sport then we should get rid of "record attempts". Pure sport should be about competing with the guy next to you, the same rules, environment, good judges, bad judges, good pool, bad pool etc.

How many sports actually have separate "record attempts". Where's the guy running 100m by himself ?
Solo swim races ?

Wal

 

[glennv]

Very interesting point there Walrus.
We had a similar discussion some time ago in the Netherlands about National record attempts. But especialy world record attemps I think we should get rid off.
Not only does it tend to lean the sport towards media stunting posibilities (which I must agree can if done proper, have a positive effect on the sport), but moreso can give a complete false image of who has the best capabilities in freediving but rather who has the most money to spend or can land the best sponsor deals instead. Organising these things is massively expensive and although if well sponsored can be done , only benifits one or 2 athletes. A well organised and well sponsored competition benefits lots of athletes , who otherwise could never come up with the cash/sponsors themselves and give them the chance to do worldrecords in similar circumstances as all other competitors , with the same rules. Just look at the latest worldcup , where some lesser known less fortunate freedivers suddely popped up as worldclass , because here they did not have to come up with loads of cash to show them selves.

The latest Cayman event only emphasises that even more. Here good athletes are put in the most perfect training surroundings for a month , pampered and supported by the best staff and crew thinkable with a fat budget to spend. Like carying them on a silver platter to greater depths. (no disrespect for the achieved great performances intended)
Compare that to some other great athletes that have to go down on an old rope in freezing lakes with zero visibility with limited or no support staff and 1 euro budget.
Now take one of these athletes and put them in those ideal situation for a month and I would not be supprised of the outcome.....