Oil Spill May Be In Loop Current Now

[jay cluskey]

jt frankly you are talking out of your neck but thats something we are acustomed to on this thread .
form an opinion of your own ,not some propaganda bull shit tv show or some drip fed adverts , frankly i cant believe you are not embarrased about that.
michael moore bases his movies on personalities like yours and as far as retarded goes, save it jt , i can spend all day on here trying to wind you up but there,s no need to , you are doing a great job by your self.
wind your neck in son, get of your arse and go help out or go grab a gun and get ye self some oil employees.
that ll make you feel better

 

[omega3]

people who kill people and cause huge un-natural disasters, need to be punished= to the severity of their crimes. you tell ME what we should do? fine them? is that even going to ,make them think twice before doing it again OR give the victims families closure? they have more money than most countries. this is NOT par for the course. we dont NEED or WANT them drilling unsafely. just because i buy the oil they have me dependent on. doesnt make me part of this fiasco. its not as if, when deepwater horizon came online- i got some huge discount in my gas. i still paid the same - if not more for that risky gas.without any knowledge of its origins. this was greed thats caused this. not some accident. this was a simple cause and effect. cause: ignorance/greed =effect: huge oil spill, millions of people's lives ruined, 11 dead punishment=? fine? if all we can do is take their money. we need to take it all. as far as the goverment " wiping my ass for me" what would you have me do? personally inspect the oil rigs? dont you think that would be a function of government? i guess, (since this goverment is ALWAYS trying to wipe my ass for me)i expected they were already doing inspections, i mean, i know the oil companies are rich beyond belief, and i know the politicians are being paid off, but historically, they fall short of this kind of evil-negligence. even with the corrupt sytem- they normally dont do anything THIS STUPID!!hopefully, this is the end of letting these companies operate without any protections for the planet. disasters of this magnitude are not simply"par for the course" i am not nearly the only one who thinks this way. after that 60min program , you would have to either be an oil company employee, or retarded to be on their side. which are you? where do YOU get YOUR information? unless of course, you think 60min is some kind of communist program. in which case i know you are retarded

jt there is no need for conspiracies, backhanders and dark room deals. This is your paranoia. The 60 munutes program is a farce with agenda. Have a read of what his colleagues (the elec tech looking for his 15 mins)have to say about him on the link previous. The pieces of the puzzle are still being put together. Wait to make an informed overview. All that will arise from this after the event is tighter regs for further work. This is not a bad thing...more jobs for 1

OIL IS TAXED. The oil company gets about 5% of the pump price. That makes 95% TAX to whichever government even a green one.

This is the prize, the power, the wealth for any government , even a green one. Oil is that large for a reason. It feeds you. It feeds everyone. This is not greed it is necessity. Hand ploughed fields cannot supply enough food for the current population. On the flip side, the worlds population would not be so large if it was not for this power source. It is a conflict with peoples right to live and will come to a head at some stage as this is a finite resource. Untill an alternate power source is in place this is what we have. There are no battery powered tractors or enough lithium for them etc.

If you were to stand in your garden and take away everything oil related you would be left in a vacant lot with no fence. Not even your free range chicken!

Now go join a volunteer group and help clean this up instead of coming up with complete fantasy on the keyboard. Let us know how you get on and if you need help.

Its easier to get kids to do their homework and chores!!!:head:head:head:head

And with your knowledge I really hope to never see you on a rig, you would be the chocolate fireguard!

Right, I give up, lost cause. Carry on as you know best. Sad really.

Let it rip fondueset rofl

 

[Mr. X]

Oil Drilling in Dorset

What goes around comes around...

Story on BBC Radio 4 this morning: talk of drilling for oil on land, at Kimmeridge, a voluntary marine reserve on the Dorset coast line (south England), popular with anglers, spearos, surfers, windsurfers & tourists. It already has the oldest oil "donkey" in the UK (pumps 80 barrels a day) but they think there are probably millions of barrels to be had now using modern techniques. Apparently there is already a small well at a nearby farm, hidden by trees and protected by earth barriers.

Saw some of Obama's speech last night. The bit about reducing oil dependency seems timely, after two Gulf wars, the BP leak (what a waste) and with Afganistan winding down (hopefully). Speaking to friends last night, they were of the opinion that once America finally starts to focus on alternative energy/low carbon/high efficiency, they will lead the world on this, with new technologies and the economies of scale - it was the most positive perspective I've heard on this recently.

 

[Fondueset]

Wow. I thought for sure I'd get struck by lightning for saying bad words.

I think a huge part of the problem with this country is the highly polarized atmosphere. We're very into blame and dehumanizing the opponent. There is an epidemic intolerance for different points of view and people seems very prone to negative emotional states such as righteous indignation, anger, resentment etc. etc. Even ostensibly positive states come about out of negativity and violence - getting 'whipped up' about things - defeating others, taking pleasure in the pain of those we don't like. These are really bad and pathological things.

We need to understand that negativity is quantitative - the reasons for it do not matter. Violence is always violence - no matter the reason.

A good example right now is the public negative opinion of Obama's handling of this. Basically people are mad because he hasn't been bitching about it on TV enough. He's being a technician - educating himself and trying to figure out what's best. But what is valued in this country is violent forceful action - not skill, not intelligence. We are conditioned to having our perceptions manipulated - to being fed forceful and convincing opinions and adopting them as our own - to being mentally passive.

The problem with blame and punishment, in this situation, is that it shuts down intelligence. This is a huge problem that requires tremendous, thoughtful cooperation and a complete (and really overdue) change in our relationship with energy.

In the 70s OPEC did an Oil Embargo which changed the way we looked at things for a little while. Gas mileage because a huge factor in the auto industry as we seemed to realize that our dependence on oil was not a good thing - for several reasons. Mysteriously all that went away in less than a decade - SUVs became the rule and gas mileage was no longer even on the map. American car companies put all their eggs in that basket and its a big part of why they went down right after gas prices went up.

We need to get away from this kind of short sighted-ness. The real blame for this oil spill is cultural - each and every one of us should change the way we do things - and for God's sake try to bring LESS violence into this world - not more.

A working definition of insanity is looking at things from just one point of view.

 

[jay cluskey]

amen to that fondueset.
im outa here too

 

[jtkwest]

jt frankly you are talking out of your neck but thats something we are acustomed to on this thread .
form an opinion of your own ,not some propaganda bull sh!t tv show or some drip fed adverts , frankly i cant believe you are not embarrased about that.
michael moore bases his movies on personalities like yours and as far as retarded goes, save it jt , i can spend all day on here trying to wind you up but there,s no need to , you are doing a great job by your self.
wind your neck in son, get of your arse and go help out or go grab a gun and get ye self some oil employees.
that ll make you feel better

so you do believe 60minutes is a bullsh!t propaganda tv show? what a surprise. that show is very neutral and highly respected as such. just because the people they interviewed went against your side, you claim its propaganda? of all the stupid sh!t you have said on this thread- THAT about tops it all. so what ISNT a propaganda news source? oil drillers weekly newsletter? sound like thats where you have been getting YOUR info. so now this paints a better picture of you: you are a paranoid conspiracy theorist? the 60 minutes conspiracy to defame the oil companies? are you seriously suggesting that? why would they do that? what would be the motivation? they simply asked the head of the science foundation who's fault it was, and he said bp. he said it, not 60 minutes. you need to wake up and realize that there are more supporters of oil companies on this forum than all of florida combined. so have your fun here, in this little world. in the world at large, the oil companies are not viewed kindly right now. and its just getting worse.

 

[foxfish]

OK I think we have had enough of you guys bickering & arguing - last chance - keep your post civil or the thread will be closed!

 

[Fondueset]

Mate - with JTK and Omega3 This thing is becoming what it despises:
A toxic Spill.

 

[cdavis]

They ain't listening, time to close.

please

 

[jay cluskey]

Nothing more to say jt there is no point ! Save it

 

[strangelove]

Based on what I read, it is OK that the oil companies explore the tar sands in canada, so someone in florida can drive cars and run their AC, the only problem is when if spill something close to home.

US consumes 18 million barrels of oil daily, it only produces 8 million (ball park figures), that is with the deep oil program. Unless US reduce the demand there is no way around it.

I think Florida voted republican on the last elections, the forum may not have as many oil supporters but Florida does since they voted republican.

I think that is the point the european folks are trying to make.

I like the price of Gas in U.S., do you want a 5 or 10 dollar tax to reduce the demand ?

it just does not add up.

US needs oil lost of it, the oil companies provide that yet, we hate them just like an addict hates the pusher.

We hate communism but when the oil companies make profit due to demand we hate them too.

It is hard to understand.

We can't have it both ways.

 

[Tony Babowicz]

Strangelove,
I thought Obama won the most electoral votes for Florida. I could be wrong.
I do know that BP put their campaign contributions behind Obama. I also know that the first person that Obama put into office (his chief of staff, Rohm Emmanuel) lived rent free in a home owned by Stanley Greenberg, a top BP advisor.
Probably just a crazy coincidence. But you'll never guess who was the chairman of that Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee dispensing those huge polling contracts to his kindly rent-free landlord.

JTKwest,
Last year, the federal Minerals Management Service, a part of the U.S. Department of the Interior, heralded the BP Deepwater Horizon rig as a model of safety, according to a May 16 Associated Press report.

And for those of you who think I am trying to defend the republicans...
Well maybe this time I am. But if you ever wanted to do a little research on a company named Shell. They give republican campaign contributions every election, I don't recall any american oil spill that they are responsible for, but the Nigerian river delta has been polluted by them for years.
Research by the World Conservation Union and Nigerian government agencies indicate that on average every year over the past 50 years the oil spilled in Nigeria has been equivalent to the 1989 Exxon Valdez spill in Alaska

Personally, I feel as if I am as much to blame for this mess by driving a car, having air conditioning, etc as the companies involved in this tragedy.

I'll try to ride my bike more and leave my windows open. Sorry for the mess to all of you who don't drive or wear clothes or live in a house made of mud with a thatch roof.

 

[strangelove]

Tony

The mms people and practice you are referring to where put in place by Bush and not replace by Obama, as far as I know Bush carry Florida twice.

There is no big conspiracy here, this is all motivate by greed and maximum profit, the feds fail allowing for these violations.

But I agree with you we are all responsible since we drive.

 

[jay cluskey]

i think the us are lucky that the 3 billion barrell well TIBER , is not the well were the deepwater blew up .
transocean have had a good safety record , you can not legislate for a one off like this.
this incident, when its over , will change a lot of things for the greater good.
and personally i would not blame human consumption for the obsession with oil the demand was created and we all bought into it , i quite enjoyed rumbling around in my v10 car a couple of years back and then upgrading to a big audi until a few weeks back.
the responsibility has been accepted by bp, they are dealing with it,i know for a fact that once bp have dealt with the clear up and the compensation of people whos livleyhoods who have been affected more litigation will follow .
i cant help but think that a lot of people are going to milk bp for all its worth ,is like a free windfall in the worst recession since the 30,s.
all the points you guys ( strangelove, mr x ,fondueset, omega 3 ,frozen duck ,north old spearo , fcallagy ) bring to the thread are informed un biased and positive even handed comments wich makes for good debate and an interesting forum.
THIS THREAD HAS HAD OVER 3000 VIEWS NOW AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO COMMENT . FOR OBVIOUS REASONS

 

[Mr. X]

America's rather poor treatment of the injured parties in the Union Carbide catastrophe in India some years ago is getting a lot of press attention in the UK today, inc. the front page of the Financial Times. (It's that "what goes around comes around" thing again.)

It's a shame that the poor beleaguered American & British pensioners will be picking up the tab for this (there will be no more dividend payments this year, there would usually be 3), rather the incompetent (to be charitable) board members, CEO and executives ("I'm alright Jack!") that are responsible. In the UK today, the BBC announced today that for board members of FTSE100 companies in the UK pay has gone up 7% and their bonuses have gone up 20% this year. An American friend used to say "it's never a bad time to be rich" - clearly he has a point.

 

[Tony Babowicz]

Tony

The mms people and practice you are referring to where put in place by Bush and not replace by Obama, as far as I know Bush carry Florida twice.

There is no big conspiracy here, this is all motivate by greed and maximum profit, the feds fail allowing for these violations.

But I agree with you we are all responsible since we drive.

Unless I missed something,Bush didn't run in the last election. Rohm Emmanuel was originally a Clinton guy, put into office by Obama. (his first appointee)
Please don't think that I am blaming the current administration or the previous one for this mess. I was merely pointing out some facts to those who are pointing fingers.
Guys, there are lots of us who read this thread, I've been lurking on it for weeks and chose not to participate. I was amused by the rants of one and educated by the replies of some. I will go back into hiding now and lurk in the shadows.

 

[Fondueset]

This all starts to get back to Ayn Rand and the economist Freidman.
The Trend - under Republican administrations - has been to allow corporations to regulate themselves. The philosophy which Greenspan and others adhered to premised that capitalism was naturally self-regulating. There are more holes in this logic than there were in Ayn Rand - since it essentially ignores greed.

The Republicans did this under the guise of smaller government (even while they were making public comments about a man who was having to make the tortuous decision to let his wife, who'd been in a coma for a decade, die. And trying, in many other ways to control the lives of individuals - eroding separation of church and state etc. etc. ) Personally I think some of the best and most decent people we have in government are Republicans - but they need to get a grip on their platform. It is government's job to regulate commerce - Capitalism should be subservient to democracy. Of course the obvious lessons about this will be lost in a few months - when the politicians will spew a lot of emotionally charged chaff to get their constituents whipped up about various convenient fictions.

Obama is being held to account for effects that have their inception well- before he got into office. Its an utterly thankless time to be president.

Anyway - my point is not to slam the Republicans (they need it though) or the Democrats (where to start!). Politicians are lower life-forms - in general they should not be associating with normal, decent human beings. The point is, Government should regulate commerce.

However - this oil spill is, in my opinion, an inevitable consequence of oil.

 

[strangelove]

Tony

I am not sure about your point, do you think the feds are taking easy on BP since they are connected to Rohm Emmanuel.

I think Exxon pay 2 billion total for the Valdez mess.

I think the feds are being to tough on BP because they are a foreign company, just like they did with Toyota early this year. The politicians like to play for the audience.

I think Bush ran with a different name: McCain

 

[Tony Babowicz]

Last post for me, promise. My point, Strangelove, was to correct you when you stated that Florida supports oil by voting republican in the last election. The democrats won the race and Florida's 27 electoral votes went to Obama.
My second point was to try to get you to see that it's not just the republicans that support oil. Also it's not just the republicans being supported by oil.
In March, president Obama voted in favor of the expansion of U.S. offshore oil and gas drilling in Alaska and in parts of the US Atlantic coast. I know he had other motives like getting support of his climate bill, but offshore drilling is offshore drilling.

My point to JTKwest was that the deepwater horizon was seen as a safe rig by the authorities that inspect it. Maybe during the ongoing investigation they will find something that was overlooked that caused this mess. If they do, is it BP's fault, or is it the government agency who does the so-called inspecting?
That is my point(s). No conspiracy claims. Just a couple facts. Thanks for listening, I'll shut up now. I hope to interact with you guys someday on a thread about freediving or fishing.

 

[strangelove]

Tony

Thanks for the setting my record strait also for all your input, it is good the hear all points of view, I did know Obama had carry Florida, I guess I can't get over the 2000 election also FL elected 3 republican Governors on the roll.

But some good news, I've heard on the radio the relief well is just 200 feet away from the target. If they can hit it on the first try that means they can stop the spill soon.

Hopefully that will chear up JTK.

Amazing engineering, they are trying to hit a target of the size of a dinner plate from two miles away.

Would be interested to check this thread next year, to get some first hand input about the impact of this spill.