Omer XXV Speargun + Other Fast tracking guns?

[Mr. X]

...In my opinion the XXV 90 can replace the 75 and 90 Comanche. ...
...

Excellent. Thanks what I was wondering. I'm thinking of getting a 90. I went out yesterday & took the XXV again. However visibility turned out to be unusually good, even with some spring bloom, maybe 20 feet (should have taken the 90cm gun -- now I see why IckleDevil was using his 100cm gun). It wasn't very fishy though. Lots of tiny pollock & a few small & medium wrasse. I did eventually come across 2 small-ish bass. The first, barely visible in the murk, never offered a shot. I chased the second bass & managed to get within range but did not shoot. I later swam over a bigger bass in a gulley below me -- just the sort of shot I got the short gun for. However the water was quite deep & the spear seemed to pull up just short -- I wonder if the point might have prodded the bass as he stopped & didn't know what to do for a few moments. I didn't catch any fish - the improved visibility helped the fish more than me. However, I was pleasantly surprised to find a lobster in the pot I placed as I swam out!

Anyway the 3mm muzzle bungee seemed to work fine. However, I have now replaced it with a full wrap of 3mm bungee - so I have a double wrap. It seems quite easy to reload, being short & elastic. I was thinking of replacing some of the first wrap with bungee when I next replace the spear-line but this seemed like something I could try in the meantime without disturbing things too much. [It's possible that this isn't the problem, it might be that the spear is reaching the target but without enough power.]

...I definately think the comanche 90 felt like you had more gun in the water....

I was hoping you'd say something like that. I assume you mean it felt bigger, rather than more powerful?

Interesting about the Commanche trigger mech (I think Glowworn might have have had similar problem) & the XXV safety. I like the XXV safety so far - very positive, with easy to understand symbols. Like you, I always leave it off.

 

[spaghetti]

[It's possible that this isn't the problem, it might be that the spear is reaching the target but without enough power.]

Interesting about the Commanche trigger mech (I think Glowworn might have have had similar problem) .

Mr. X in all my honesty I think you just have to get used to the actual power and range of your new 75: don't worry my friend, your gun has nothing wrong really. It just has the average power and range of an average 75cm european bandgun, which is much inferior to the range of the 90 you were used to hunt with before.
More simply: it shoots like a 75. Never in life it will shoot like a 90.
Anyway the payoff of less range is more fun, or at least for me it's more fun to hunt with a 75 than with a 90. It's more challenging cause you have to get closer to the fish (challenge=fun). It's more versatile cause you don't have much of a worry about visibility and narrow spaces between rocks. It's more handy, cause you can track it like a pencil in water. BUT....it shoots shorter!
Courage, be happy! You picked a good gun, mate

Comanche trigger: mine has jammed just 2 times (there was too much sand in the cassette) but all summed up I still rate it as a reliable trigger. Not happy for the fish I lost those 2 times, though...:head

 

[Mr. X]

Hi Spaghetti, you are right of course. There is nothing wrong with the gun. Far from it, I'm wondering if I can squeeze a little more range out of it (have been wondering the same about the 90 too), as it has become my "go to" gun. The visibility yesterday was unusually good (I guess IckleDevil hinted at it when he mentioned that he was using his 100cm T20 a day or two earlier - a 100cm would have fine yesterday too).

For the bass I gave chase to, I was able to swing the short gun round 90 degrees in a fairly quick & convincing way. Something frustatingly difficult & slow with a 90cm gun - impractical really. As you say, I guess I am still exploring what is possible with this wonderful new tool.

Re. the Comanche, I've seen various spare parts sold for them for reasonable prices. I would think the mech can be simply replaced. But I think the spearos are growing & moving on too. I'm tempted to get a 90cm XXV but I will wait a while, see how this one works out - maybe they'll have something even better 6 months from now?

 

[azapa]

i shot the bellow fish with a Asso 65 Pneumatic last weekend. It was about 2m away. I would 100% not have had the chance to shoot with my cayman 90, and I doubt with a 75. I saw it at the mouth of a cave as I scuffed along (aguato?) the bottom of a gully, it was 60 degrees or so to my left, I am right handed, the slow swing of a band gun >75 (any) and it would have bolted before I got half way. With the asso from seeing to shooting was probably 1/2 the time. Food for thought: accuracy vs. speed.

Of course, I recognize that it was a bigger fish, so accuracy was not that important. By luck more than anything it was a gill plate shot, straight through. The line holder did not follow making me think that the line was already at max extension. But two wraps on a 65CM gun are not that far

i'm ordering a Spark 87cm, the dark side is calling me back to pnuemos..:martial

 

[spaghetti]

the slow swing of a band gun >75 (any) and it would have bolted before I got half way. With the asso from seeing to shooting was probably 1/2 the time. Food for thought: accuracy vs. speed.

..:martial

You can get the best tracking from a bandgun if you just take the bands off of it flatten the barrell put a compressed air piston in it just like with the....Omer Airbalete

http://forums.deeperblue.net/pnumatic-spearguns/76393-new-omer-pneumatic.html

....(it's coming in Autumn 2008) :martial

 

[azapa]

thanks spago, gun looks lovely but I can't wait and will try a spark. I'm sure it will be 1/2 the price of the omer version. My 2009 budget is still free though There are some nice shafts available in 7mm to, double flopper Tahitian style.

 

[Mr. X]

Must be quite powerful to go through a gill plate at full extension. I've had spears bounce off the gill plate of large fish (& that with the 90cm x 20mm rubber gun).

What's the Spark 87cm? I just tried googling for it but found nothing. Do you use Mamba-type seals? Have always said never about pneumatics - but it will be interesting to see what Omer come up with. What's the outside diameter?

 

[azapa]

the spark is made by Mares (or I guess the same factory where all pnuemos are made) it is called the spark stealth. it's on pages 36/37 of the 2008 catalogue, attached. It uses 7mm shafts. I have never tried mamba, and don't have the urge yet (more to do with expense, shipping etc to Chile).

Those Phantoms look amazing though............check out the mares website for the comparative tests, look at the tracking noise vs others.

 

[spaghetti]

I have just ordered an Omer XXV Gold 90 for my own next, hopefully successful spaghetti-style hunting sessions. Fixed!

 

[ulysses]

Apologies if this issue has been discussed before (I did not bother to plough through the entire thread): How is the buoyancy/balance of the XXV?

My guess: With its 25mm barrel it must be a nose heavy sinker, if equipped with a standard length shaft of a diameter above 6.0mm (I am not even thinking about the likely effects of mounting a reel). Am I wrong?

Cheers, ulysses

 

[spaghetti]

Apologies if this issue has been discussed before (I did not bother to plough through the entire thread): How is the buoyancy/balance of the XXV?

My guess: With its 25mm barrel it must be a nose heavy sinker, if equipped with a standard length shaft of a diameter above 6.0mm (I am not even thinking about the likely effects of mounting a reel). Am I wrong?

Cheers, ulysses

Though the gun does not sink shaft off (while it sinks shaft in, just like all the others), you're quite right, partly.
The 82 I had was nose heavy indeed. I had fixed that placing a piece of cork in the muzzle (into the hole for the circular band), and I was quite happy with that solution.
The longer ones, starting with the 90, don't have such a nose heaviness issue, not noticeably.

 

[Mr. X]

Great to hear you have the XXV again Spaghetti

For completeness: My 75cm XXV gun (w/o reel) is a little tip heavy (aren't all band guns?) but the gun is so light that it is not an issue & does not require a cork in the muzzle (as I currently have on my RA railgun). The blurb for the XXV mentioned the handle being made to increase buoyancy. However, what do mean by standard length spear? The standard XXV omer spear is 5cm shorter than that used by most companies.

 

[ulysses]

All my arbaletes / band guns are balanced and neutrally buoyant with their shaft and that without any external buoyancy control device. As a matter of fact, IMO this is one of the most important aspects in any speargun (crucial with respect to ease of use and accuracy). Admittedly, apart from the wooden Beuchats, they did not come out of the box like this

On a standard band-gun the easiest solution is to experiment with shaft diameters (and lengths) and

-> starting from a negatively buoyant gun (e.g., Beuchat Mundial standard = 28mm round aluminium barrel) you may have to fill the lacunas in the front and/or back of the barrel and/or the handle with depron or styrofoam

-> starting form a positively buoyant gun (e.g., Cressi Comanche Carbon) you may have to add weight by putting the appropriate amount of lead in the lacunas in the barrel and/or the handle

until your the (loaded) arbalete stays horizontally in mid-water or sinks not faster than in 'dead leave' style. :inlove

Cheers, ulysses

 

[Mr. X]

Interesting. You use Beuchats don't you? As I said, unnecessary for my XXV 75 but I am interested for the RA. However, I have been thinking about moving to a slimmer & possibly shorter spear on the RA for other reasons and that might well solve this issue. How does inserting foam into the gaps at the front & back of the barrel help - is the idea to displace water? I don't think my RA barrel holds any water (no sloshing noise)... or does it? Perhaps it drains out through the trigger mech when you leave the water:hmm

 

[Mr. X]

Heads up, 10% price reduction on 75cm & 82cm Omer XXVs: Omer XXV items at low prices on eBay.co.uk

Update on the Omer XXV 75. It must be ok, I've used it for every dive this year so far. It has had an interesting affect on my catch. Initially I took several shots at large bass that just fell short - out of range (some of the largest fish I have seen ). Since then I probably see one bass per dive on average that I pass up because it is out of range. However, what I've lost on bigger bass, has been somewhat made up for in variety: plenty of grey mullet, a couple of mackeral &, most recently, a trigger fish. I'm liking the slim, stainless steel spear, & largely maintenance free so far.

 

[Mr. X]

Spaghetti mentioned he had heard the 100cm was not a good size for this model -- anybody got any more information on why that is or reviews they've seen? Is the issue balance/barrel flex/loading/spear flex/...? Thinking of getting a longer XXV.

 

[spaghetti]

However, I have seen a couple of huge bass this year that are frustratingly out of range. I'm wondering about the 100cm XXV [alternatively, perhaps I will double band the RA (it already has a double rap) to give it a little more range, make it more like a 100cm, for occasional clear vis. use only]. Spaghetti mentioned he had heard the 100cm was not a good size for this model -- anybody got any more information on why that is or reviews they've seen?

I still think the XXV GOld 90 is a great gun. As for the 100, I have met people who are enjoyng the XXV Gold 100, and I myself never said it's "bad": I said that I don't think it's the ideal pick for a 100.
For the long, powerful shots of a 100 it's better to use a gun with more mass and more stability than the slim XXV: recoil is the main reason.
The difference between a 75 and a 90 is significant in terms of ballistics. And then a 100 is all another category: it's the category of long guns whose bands, during the shot, deliver more energy so to require a bigger gun mass, in order to endure the stronger "kick" of energy.
Mind you, in the "goods for sale" section of the forum I have my mighty Master Comp 106 for sale. It's armed with a 140cm shaft, so that the overall length is equal to a classic 100 euro gun........

 

[Mr. X]

Thanks Spaghetti. Recoil, I guess that's why Foxfish posted the hilarious youtube recoil video. Does recoil affect accuracy or just cause after shot discomfort? I've never noticed it with the RA but it is quite heavy compared to the XXV.

The other thing is rail vs. no-rail. I originally planned to get a 90 XXV Gold with reel - I don't need a reel but it seems like a good way to get one "just in case" of a trip abroad (& I could use it on either gun). A reel is seems even move appropriate for the 100 - more geared for big fish & abroad? However, I am v. impressed with the agility of the 75 and I'm thinking the lack of rail might make a significant contribution (along with reduced barrel diameter & super light weight), reducing the hydro-dynamic profile by 3 or 4mm. The benefit would be even greater on a longer barrel. However, a rail adds strength & rigidity, which might also be significant factors for a long barrel. I suspect the unrailed 100cm XXV would be pretty rigid anyway - but maybe not? Also significantly cheaper w/o the rail & reel.

If I get the 90, it will likely become my #1 gun, esp. for Summer, being inbetween my other two guns. It would get most use and that might well be the deciding factor. A 100, on the hand, would likely replace the RA90 as my clear water/Cornwall/Guernsey/Med gun, albeit with lighter weight & greater range. Think I need to dive with the RA again, to get a feel for range/weight ... hard to leave the little XXV behind now though, it's like a little Jack Russell that always wants to play

 

[Mr. X]

...Mind you, in the "goods for sale" section of the forum I have my mighty Master Comp 106 for sale. It's armed with a 140cm shaft, so that the overall length is equal to a classic 100 euro gun........

Thanks for the offer. I'm settled with the XXV now, I don't think anything else that can touch it (but you know how enthused I get about my spearguns).

I've pretty much decided to get a 90cm XXV next, not sure if it will be the Gold model (would like the reel & rubbers but not so keen on the rail anymore). An idea occurred to me this evening, I could upgrade the RA barrel to a 100cm carbon -- the reduced mass (& therefore interia) of the carbon should help offset the increased length. I wouldn't need a new spear, as the 90cm spear will still work (aping the Omer idea of reduced spear length, and then some). I'm quite excited by this idea -- anybody got a spare 100cm RA carbon barrel hanging around?). [Any XXV 90 owners looking to sell? I bet not.]

 

[Pav]

sorry X,

Keeping mine. Just love the carrbon :inlove