PETA F&@#ers

[land shark]

How we eat may just be as important as what we eat!

That's why I make my own bread

 

[naiad]

'lunch righteousness' is certainly an abberation. I'm also not a big fan of anything ideology driven.

I agree. It's no fun receiving a lecture at the dinner table about why it is wrong to eat meat. I don't mind whether people are vegetarian, vegan or whatever, but lecturing others and making them feel bad about their choice isn't fair.

 

[Mr. X]

...
When I stopped being vegetarian, I craved meat more than ever, most of all beef and fish.

I think some people can be healthy on a vegetarian diet, but not all. It also depends on things like age, sex, general health, amount of physical activity etc.

There is an exhibit at the old Abbey at Beaulieu about the monks' food. They ate only one meal a day (... after a few hundred years they were allowed a second meal in winter ). Although they had a variety of seafood, other meat was forbidden...except when a brother was sick or weak, when it was permitted. So apparently they recognised the nutritional value of meat.

[Home baked bread Landshark? Sounds good . I got some wholewheat flour from a local windmill last year (run by enthusiasts). It tasted great - full of flavour.]

 

[khel]

That's why I make my own bread

Wow, and I thought that I'm the only one who's baking my own bread
We need to share "baking" experience on next freedive-a-palooza

 

[Oldsarge]

Funny that y'all should mention that . . . I made Indian Nan bread in the broiler last night. Just the ticket with spicy broiled chicken with yougurt-tomato sauce and a huge salad! Ah laks mah veggibles rawr!

 

[land shark]

[Home baked bread Landshark? Sounds good . I got some wholewheat flour from a local windmill last year (run by enthusiasts). It tasted great - full of flavour.

yep aint nuthin like fresh ground flour! The stuff on the shelf is already old
to bad I have to buy the bag. I heard a rumor there is a supplier comming to my side of town yippie.

 

[Rob Blok]

As a diver i dont like spearfishing that much. That is more because of the loss of (big) fish in the dive site. I also dont like it when people fish there, i dont think it is cruel or anything. I just like to look at fish, i really dont like eating fish (because of the taste). But as long as people dont kill just for fun and dont eat it then i can accept it. But in most parts of thailand it is illigal to spearfish (nature parks) I did however see them fishing there that made me even more mad because they catch more then the spearfishers.

 

[Mr. X]

As a diver i dont like spearfishing that much. That is more because of the loss of (big) fish in the dive site. I also dont like it when people fish there, i dont think it is cruel or anything. I just like to look at fish, i really dont like eating fish (because of the taste). But as long as people dont kill just for fun and dont eat it then i can accept it. But in most parts of thailand it is illigal to spearfish (nature parks) I did however see them fishing there that made me even more mad because they catch more then the spearfishers.

Hi Rob, you'll probably find most spearos here are also keen to preserve fish stocks, including larger fish. In this part of the world at least, some forms of commercial fishing (e.g. pair trawling of breeding grounds) seem to be having the most impact. Spearos & anglers are currently trying, for example, to get the minimum size for Bass increased. There are also several estuaries where bass fishing is already barred year round or for part of the year. Spearfishing is one of the few forms of fishing that can be selective.

Protecting larger species directly won't necessarily work. For example, in the 1950's blue fin tuna upto 900lb were caught in Scarborough...now they have none. I am told the reason for this is not overfishing of the tuna but the eradication of their food source (herring). Currently sand eels seem to be a food source under a lot of scrutiny; several species of fish & sea birds depend on them and they are coming under pressure (perhaps Huan can provide more insight here - perhaps harvested as a food source for fish farms?).

However, the ever increasing human population will place increasing pressure on fish stocks, and the environment in general. (I only mention this because it seems to be a perspective that gets little discussion.)

 

[Rob Blok]

You are right.. we humans are destroying the seas. But are you saying that a spearo would not kill that big grouper if he saw it ? I thought they always went for the big fish no mather how rare they are.

I just love looking at the fish that is why i am training my air so i can stay under longer when snorkling. I just love the thai ocean.. I know there are even better ones but compared to the dutch one it is great.

Kind regards,

Rob

 

[fcallagy]

It was probably said here earlier but there is something to be asid for hunting/gathering your own food. I used to hunt with shotgun but gave it up due to time constraints and had just started into diving so that took over. I nerver speared but may in the future but I think as a orld most of us has forgotten that chiken comes from chickens, beef from cows and pork from pigs. Seeing animals being slaughtered isn't particularly pleasant but I think we should be aware of how its done and be able to face up to it if we are gonna eat the meat. My brother has an alkaline diet so no meat/fish/dairy and even a lot of fruits are no go seems to be a lot of seeds and pulses but it ain't for me but can be interesting

 

[Spaniard]

You are right.. we humans are destroying the seas. But are you saying that a spearo would not kill that big grouper if he saw it ? I thought they always went for the big fish no mather how rare they are.

I just love looking at the fish that is why i am training my air so i can stay under longer when snorkling. I just love the thai ocean.. I know there are even better ones but compared to the dutch one it is great.

Kind regards,

Rob

You're probably right about most spearos shooting the big grouper; that's why I believe in marine reserves and protected areas where you can see all the wonders of the sea and know they will be there tomorrow. If you go to Islas Medas, near Barcelona, Spain, you can get a glimpse of what the mediterranean used to look like underwater!! We need a balance in everything. You can't make all the coastline a marine reserve but you can't stop people from selectively harvesting the sea either

 

[Mr. X]

You are right.. we humans are destroying the seas. But are you saying that a spearo would not kill that big grouper if he saw it ? I thought they always went for the big fish no mather how rare they are.

I just love looking at the fish that is why i am training my air so i can stay under longer when snorkling. I just love the thai ocean.. I know there are even better ones but compared to the dutch one it is great.

Kind regards,

Rob

No...as you obviously sensed, I deliberately did not claim that spearos will not take big fish. It is a legimate area of the sport to shoot the biggest fish, the national/world record (although I note that some forum members do not claim them). Hopefully not rare or protected fish though (presumably no legitimate organisations accept record claims on protected species). Often the very big fish will themselves be predators, so removing small numbers of large fish from the food chain may increase available food for other fishes; obviously this only applies for small numbers though.

I believe the fish are generally eaten, although it seems smaller/younger fish are generally tastier & less likely to contain parasites & toxins.

Thailand appears to something of tropical paradise -- I can understand your desire to keep it that way. My barber is from Sicily & talks about spearing anything & everything as a child (apparently they didn't kill everything as he returns there every year & usually spears while there). A colleague grew up in Africa & talks of regretting killing some of beautiful huge fish that he speared as youngster, 40 years ago - although it seems like Africa still has some of the biggest & best fish.

Spaniard makes a good point - balance is key.

Makes me think of the massive Potato Bass, I saw on TV recently:

Nature at work: http://www.5050.co.za/inserts.asp?ID=3289

 

[Rob Blok]

Yes there should be balance.. Normaly there is no lack of small fish only of big ones. I have seen a nice grouper, it is rare to see big fish.. I did see a big baracuda last week. I hope to see more big fish.. I have seen sharks too.. love them (not the dangerous ones).

But yes balance is the key.. Here in Thailand they have a lot of marine parks.. but last time i saw a big boat trawling in a marine park.. really annoyed me.. Dont know if it was legit. They will loose the nice sea and the dive industry that way.

 

[spaghetti]

Rob, I started spearfishing in 1988 and collected about two thousands dives with gun in hand, but I've seen more groupers in supermarkets than in the sea. What I mean is that the impact of spearfishing is ridiculous compared to industrial fishing.
More than this, I hope some day you tank divers will kindly stop considering "spearos" as a category: we're not all the same. A minority make indiscriminate killings and don't give a f§§§k of the environment, but the great majority does selective and sustainable spearing, with a knowledge and a respect for the sea which are greater than many tank diving sea-watchers'.
(BTW: are you sure that the sea is happy to be watched by you? Just a question...)
Sorry for my bias, it's simply out of my control.
Nothing personal.

 

[Rob Blok]

Rob, I started spearfishing in 1988 and collected about two thousands dives with gun in hand, but I've seen more groupers in supermarkets than in the sea. What I mean is that the impact of spearfishing is ridiculous compared to industrial fishing.
More than this, I hope some day you tank divers will kindly stop considering "spearos" as a category: we're not all the same. A minority make indiscriminate killings and don't give a f§§§k of the environment, but the great majority does selective and sustainable spearing, with a knowledge and a respect for the sea which are greater than many tank diving sea-watchers'.
(BTW: are you sure that the sea is happy to be watched by you? Just a question...)
Sorry for my bias, it's simply out of my control.
Nothing personal.

Im sure watching is less damaging then killing.. I did not flame anyone here is made a point and put it there in an adult way. I dont like to be attacked by a hothead. With the others i had a nice discussion without such things.
You are already considering all tank divers as a group too..

Yes spearfishing does not have a big impact like industrial fishing but spearfishers go to the same places where "tank" divers go... industrial fishing boats cant go there so there is a difference. Lets say you can see a certain big grouper at a point everyday you dive there then one day it is speared.... that has a big impact. Maybe not to you but to me yes. You might know a lot more then me about the sea, but if you do you must know that we are already depleting it.

I just stated my toughts about spearfishing and you felt attacked.. we got a saying in holland "whomever fits the shoe must wear it" you must have felt attacked for a reason .. bad concience ?

sorry im simply out of controle.. do you see that it doesnt mather if someone first has enraged you with a post and you appologize after the fact.

off to bed will awnser posts tomorrow in a normal way if im respected

 

[spaghetti]

It's true, Rob, I did wrong: you were having a civil and intelligent discussion with the other forum members, and I lit up the fire for nothing. Shame on me and no excuse (even if I still disapprove your view).

 

[Fondueset]

Interesting. I didn't see the flames. For myself - spearfishing is only for food. Big fish are to be avoided - as are docile, overly curious or filled with eggs. Just me of course.

 

[Rob Blok]

It's true, Rob, I did wrong: you were having a civil and intelligent discussion with the other forum members, and I lit up the fire for nothing. Shame on me and no excuse (even if I still disapprove your view).

2 people can have different views there is no problem in that. As long as we dont start killing eachother over it. Everyone is bias to his or her own view. I can certainly believe that you know much about nature. I on the other hand shoot fish too.. with my cam. It is just frustrating to see how rare big fish are.

 

[Rob Blok]

fondueset

Ok yes i love the bigger docile fish.. I hope to see some really big ones and make a few good pictures. Killing fish for food in the right spot is no problem for me. Just dont like it on popular diving spots. I like the way you think.

 

[Mr. X]

I am not interested in chasing record fish, on the other hand, if a big bass (not a potato bass) came into view....:martial

Re. ethics & personal perspective, there have been a few good posts by forum members recently which made me think. One was from Old Man Dave on the Dorset 2006 thread:[ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/showpost.php?p=594386&postcount=336"]DeeperBlue Forums - View Single Post - Dorset Spearfishing 2006[/ame]
The other was Rigdvr on the ethics thread: [ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/showpost.php?p=576069&postcount=35"]DeeperBlue Forums - View Single Post - Ethics and spearfishing...[/ame]

Although Huan came up with my favourite line: [ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/showpost.php?p=586400&postcount=21"]"In all of this no-one is paying the Ocean to make new fish."[/ame]