Pneumatic speargun without piston

[popgun pete]

It was long time ago, before 6 years. I believe S.O.M. spear gun is better today than it was before. Such dangerous situations could happen with any spear gun, any day. This situation on video was latching problem, but the gun was shooting powerful.

What I think he is saying is that you have to hold the spear depressed with the loading bar for a longer time while the 3 balls click into position in the shaft's forward annular notch in order to fully trap the spear, so if you don't hold it for long enough then the spear comes straight out again. I expect that the balls move around OK when new, but they may not always be reliable when fine material gets inside the muzzle or you get a bit of corrosion or wear inside it.

 

[tromic]

C.O.M was trying to make trigger mechanism that would work using friction of three balls, not making any modification to the shaft. That was not an easy task to make it reliable. I like his effort to design something different, even not being the simplest way.

Here is another speargun, very similar to Vlanik gun:



http://podvoh.net/forum/pnevmo-gidr...arenko-sergeya-alekseevicha.html?limitstart=0

 

[tromic]

Idea for this kind of spearguns is from В.Н. Крупяк 1970-80.
Gun design was patented by Борис Михайлович Клименко 1991. as Amatika: http://www.amatika.com/
However Вланик (Vlanik) made real good working speargun from the idea of Крупяк.
His guns (Vlanik) are used by a lot of hunters without any complains.
Gun on the video above is made by С. Пономаренко using Vlanik gun design as a blueprint.
Also is used a lot and is reliable.

This is what I concluded from Russian forum. Credit goes to Vlanik for success of this design of speargun without piston!

 

[Vlanik]

Idea for this kind of spearguns is from В.Н. Крупяк 1977

 

[tromic]

1977

1974. - I have got my first pneumo-vacuum speargun Pilco mini 40 cm!

Vlanik, which part of the gun was the most important that you designed to make it so good and reliable?

 

[Jegwan]

1974. - I have got my first pneumo-vacuum speargun Pilco mini 40 cm!

Vlanik, which part of the gun was the most important that you designed to make it so good and reliable?

The Pilco mini is a 13mm barrel gun with piston - right?

Jégwan

 

[tromic]

The Pilco mini is a 13mm barrel gun with piston - right?

Jégwan

Right!
http://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/first-vacuum-barrel-gun.89012/

 

[tromic]

Idea for this kind of spearguns is from В.Н. Крупяк 1970-80.
Gun design was patented by Борис Михайлович Клименко 1991. as Amatika: http://www.amatika.com/
However Вланик (Vlanik) made real good working speargun from the idea of Крупяк.
His guns (Vlanik) are used by a lot of hunters without any complains.
Gun on the video above is made by С. Пономаренко using Vlanik gun design as a blueprint.
Also is used a lot and is reliable.

This is what I concluded from Russian forum. Credit goes to Vlanik for success of this design of speargun without piston!

It seems that "Mexanik":
http://garpun.spb.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?p=55482#55482
was working on piston-less desing before 1977:

"На моём раннем ружье "сегментный" использовался с 1973г (рукоятка под голую руку - по-другому тогда не было)
а придуман, по крайней мере, не позже 1961 г... Это не говорит о том, что он плохой, но не без недостатков.
Imho, попытки сравнивать "Аматику" и "Вланик" по параметру "продаваемость" неправомерны..."

 

[popgun pete]

What I think he is saying is that you have to hold the spear depressed with the loading bar for a longer time while the 3 balls click into position in the shaft's forward annular notch in order to fully trap the spear, so if you don't hold it for long enough then the spear comes straight out again. I expect that the balls move around OK when new, but they may not always be reliable when fine material gets inside the muzzle or you get a bit of corrosion or wear inside it.

Page 44 of that long thread shows the actual muzzle and spear tail in some photos.
http://www.garpun.spb.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=1300

 

[tromic]

Nice images Pete! The only thing I do not like with that type of design is higher pressure in guns, I think 50 bars and more.

 

[popgun pete]

Higher chamber pressure is inevitable when the inner barrel, or in this case the spear, is of a small diameter in order to have a high level of force with which to push the spear out of the gun. Pumping the gun up will require a big effort once you go past 40 bar, so you want a good handle on the pump in order to better distribute the contact pressure over your hand as you push the pump handle down.

 

[popgun pete]

It may be possible to convert the "RPS-3" speargun to "pistonless" and "inner barrel-less" operation by removing the inner barrel and pressurizing the entire gun and using the spear that I drew earlier. RPS-3 spear tail never leaves the gun, instead it is part of the detachable tail cap, but utilizes the gun's unique vertical sliding collar sear disk. Efficiency of the gun will improve enormously, but as for its reliability?? The first shot should be OK, but would you need to pull the trigger to do it? Now a problematic gun will also become a dangerous one!

 

[tromic]

I think such modification of RPS-3 is already done by some Russian guy.

 

[popgun pete]

Here is the discharged state.

 

[tromic]

You have RPS-3, am I right? Would you tray to make this modification? I am sure it would working fine.

 

[popgun pete]

You have RPS-3, am I right? Would you tray to make this modification? I am sure it would working fine.

I have two "RPS-3" spearguns, possibly the worst example could be converted. Everything depends on the effective sealing of the join between spear tail and rear tail cap as once cocking is completed that join has to "disappear" from an air pressure perspective so that for all intents and purposes the shaft and rear tail cap are one solid piece. Then and only then will the rear tooth arrangement holding the shaft work, but that pressure isolation has to be maintained. If the join opens up and air pressure accesses the stepped face of the join between the two section then the gun will shoot. I have indicated a polyurethane bush, but for it to be a tight fit on the shaft and seal the join off from chamber air pressure it will also add friction as the shaft slides through it during the shot (although it does not have to slide very far through it, but that depends of the length or width of the bush). It is the "single seal only" friction that makes the "inner barrel-less" and "pistonless" speargun more efficient, once additional seals act on the sliding shaft the friction will increase, so I doubt that this arrangement would be more efficient than say a "Vlanik" speargun. Also I don't relish the prospect of being shot through the hand as I remove my hand loader from the speartip!

 

[tromic]

It seems that "Mexanik":
http://garpun.spb.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?p=55482#55482
was working on piston-less desing before 1977:

"На моём раннем ружье "сегментный" использовался с 1973г (рукоятка под голую руку - по-другому тогда не было)
а придуман, по крайней мере, не позже 1961 г... Это не говорит о том, что он плохой, но не без недостатков.
Imho, попытки сравнивать "Аматику" и "Вланик" по параметру "продаваемость" неправомерны..."

I must make a correction. This speargun on image was not piston-less.
http://garpun.spb.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?p=55898#55898

 

[popgun pete]

A nice looking clone of the "Vlanik" gun, the "Evolusion". http://apox.ru/forum/topic/12055-bezporshnevoe-ruzhe-ponomarenko-evolusion/

Maybe an alternative for those unable to buy a "Vlanik" gun, although given the international/political situation now existing obtaining any items from Russia may be very difficult now and for some time to come.

 

[Zahar]

Важная особенность в ружьях Вланик , не только максимальный КПД но и максимальный КПИ ! Ружья РПС3 при переделке теряют достоинство в КПИ ! Механизм зацепа переделанного РПС3 нуждается в тонкой настройке! Но у меня идет работа в этом направлении!
Важная особенность в орудий Vlanik, не только максимальное КПД (выход-вход отношения), но и максимальная КПИ (Коэффициент полезного пользования)! Орудия РПС3 в изменении потерять достоинство КПИ! Механизм фиксации пробки требуется тонкая настройка! Но работа такая у меня есть!docs.google.com/file/d/0B1FzyhsSPC_2SHlRQ3VzQ0JOd0U/edit?usp=drive_web docs.google.com/file/d/0B1FzyhsSPC_2WFBLcmZGWmlBTVk/edit?usp=drive_web docs.google.com/file/d/0B1FzyhsSPC_2VDZObFUzTE0tMmM/edit?usp=drive_web

 

[Stephan Whelan]

Folks - don't want to be a spoil sport but can keep to English? This is an English forum and we have no way of moderating non-English posts so have to consider removing them.