Possible new gun

[Don Paul]

I like cedar as a artistic wood with good environmental weathering resistance.
If 50% of the guns barrel stiffness could come from its back bone, a more figured Cedar could be used. Stained with black tapering to red and a UV protecting clear top coat. A reinforced burled cedar handle would be sweet.
Cheers, Don

 

[foxfish]

Don I was wondering if I could encase the whole gun with a clear fiberglass cloth & epoxy. I have done this with boat decks & canoes but I am not sure if the cloth will be transparent enough under close inspection?

 

[Don Paul]

I have never covered wood this way, it's sounds like a good time for a test.
I'm very old school with boat wood.
Cheers, Don

 

[Spear0Joe]

is that the old riva don?

 

[Don Paul]

is that the old riva don?

No, sorry I pulled the image, I just realized it had been copyrighted.
Don

 

[foxfish]

A few years back I built a 17' sailing canoe, great craft it had a retractable dagger board & a telescopic fiberglass mast.
Anyhow my customer bought the kit from the states but didn't fancy building it, in the kit came this really fine glassfibre weave that was to be applied to the finished veneered craft.
(Yep it was veneered from the best quality mahogany! took me six weeks to construct.)
I did have a few problems applying the weave but in the end the canoe was shiny bright & completely encased in fiberglass - however i do seem to remember that at certain angles the weave was very apparent.
Going to search the web......

 

[foxfish]

Cutting the track through the Delrin rod is not a good approach, unless the Delrin rod is mechanically keyed into the CF, because the composite won't stick to the Delrin and it will later fall out. But using the Delrin rod to form the composite around, and then removing it entirely works well, as long as the remaining composite shape is one that you can hold in a mill or router to accurately cut the track.

The white in the last picture is wax, which was used to define the shape and later melted out.

Mr Tin Man - Sir Tin Man! that is proof of some amazing work.
I know you said "wax" somewhere along the line but.....how?

 

[Tin Man]

I made a core out of cheap paraffin wax from the local drugstore. After I shaped the core the way I wanted it, I wrapped it with carbon fiber. After that, I just melted out the wax over the barbeque pit, and the barrel was left hollow. It's the same basic "lost wax" process that is used for casting metals really.

I did have to machine out the track afterwords, because I wasn't comfortable that I could make such a long, thin piece of wax. But theoretically you could use a waxed steel rod like you mentioned, and then just pull it out and then cut the top slot. It's the same basic "lost wax" process that is used for casting metals really.

 

[foxfish]

So when you say "shaped the core" how?
When you say "I wrapped it with carbon fiber" did you have to then finish the tube in some way?
Fantastic idea & work but I think you make it sound a bit to easy

 

[Tin Man]

Let me dig out some pictures and I'll post a new thread so as not to detract from this one. It was a crude process, but it worked.

 

[Phil Herranen]

Blaiz, I dont have any experience with CF either!
I have worked with glass-fibre all my life & I figure it cant be that different to work with.
Anyhow next step is to order some of this CF stuff! Checked out EBay & it seems readily available just expensive.
I have plenty of epoxy but I will visit the saw mill tomorrow to sort out some cedar.
I have used pigments in my epoxies before & I notice carbon cloth is available in different colours - going to think about this tonight....

cf only comes in black . red ,blue ,silver cfetc. are colored fiberglass or kevlar
phil

 

[foxfish]

Arrr thank Phil, I was suspect about that!

Well its been an interesting learning curve so far, thanks for all the ideas & input.
I must say I build my guns to look good & to be different & I hope this one will be just that however I am still not certain as to how I am going to build the gun?
I titled the thread "Possible gun" & tomorrow i will be in the workshop trying out a few things.
One thing I am positive about is the gun shape, it is in fact very simple without all the normal curves that I usually build into the guns but it still looks great with its taper & tiny radius's.
Of course I dont know how it will behave underwater or if it will be very buoyant etc so I will have to take a few risks - cant wait to get going now.

 

[Phil Herranen]

1 more thing , unless you are very skilled with composits do not use kevlar or hybred weave .you can not sand it, the fibers are so strong that it just strips the resin off and turns to fuzz . your lay up has to be right the first time or you are in for a lot of work with a razor blade cuting off fuzz.
phil

 

[foxfish]

I spent a few hours today messing around with ideas, templates & moulds.
Very product in the design sense but nothing physically achieved.
It would seem that two guns are too evolve from this thread, the first will be the carbon backbone gun & the second will be a moulded carbon gun with a foam core.
Also..I have secured both a Benthos trigger & one of Joshes Tuna mechs!

 

[Don Paul]

Also..I have secured both a Benthos trigger & one of Joshes Tuna mechs! :Quote Foxfish

My hat's off to Joshe (Neptronics) and Benthos for their support, Bravo !
Don Paul

 

[foxfish]

Quite right Don & I will of course feature the mechs when they arrive.
Talking of triggers these look great too - waiting to find out more via Email...

 

[foxfish]

I am still waiting for the CF cloth to arrive but I made a start on the backbone former today.
I planed up 4 x 1.4mt lengths of pine to 18mm x 40mm, I used some 6mm ply as a spacer & to replicate the CF & cut the trigger slot & muzzle end.
However I realised that the reverse trigger will sit directly above the handle.
Because of the mechs format the actual trigger is at the very front of the unit. This presents a problem unless I can drop the mech in from the top?
Looking at the pic of the mech there seems to be some tabs on the bottom that I might have to remove?
I have allowed for a 100mm x 20mm solid cf section at the muzzle to hold the bands.
I have also cut a 10mm 1/2 round slot in the wood to allow for the 8mm open track that will be built into the backbone.

 

[Don Paul]

The front tabs do not look structural in your application.
Cheers, Don

 

[Phil Herranen]

it looks like its designed so you can "swing" the mech in from the top and then pin the back
phil

 

[foxfish]

I have had a mail back from these guys Mechanisms & was quite surprised to find out the prices!
All the single trigger mechs are Euro 28.50 & the double 38.50 but looks like I need to send another mail for postage cost - certainly look fantastic...
CF still not arrived but been assured it is in the post!